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Scarecrows MU Chart

AkioOf100

I play Raph
I also think it's in Crow's favor until Beetle gets a knockdown. His zoning is pretty easy to navigate with Crow, but that's not really the way the MU should be played. I mean at all lol. If you're playing purely to keep Crow out, you're not going to get very far.

I play Vex on the regular and the scariest thing to me is when he pops trait and starts playing footsies. Jumping is generally a bad idea because of Beetle's antiair properties on his F2. F1 is out of the question because it can be very easily whiff punished with his 6f D2. That means you're playing for scoring a F2-gas blast and chasing down to make reads on Oki.

Meanwhile, if Beetle can score a knockdown with F2, he can freely flight pressure Crow into mixes and there really isn't much that Crow can do about it. Unless I have a read, I generally pushblock. I haven't explored wakeup teleport, but it seems like a bad option *especially* in the corner when Beetle can meaty a J3 into flight pressure.

The average Crow player will still probably beat the average Beetle player. But if you want to learn how to play the MU well, take tips from Vex and pop that trait my guy.
First off, @Vex uses power blades and therefore is the inferior beetle.

But in all seriousness, there is a good chance that I'm overreacting. If the Beetle is on their top game with power blades we can play the footsie game with scarecrow. It's just unfavorable for the most-part, because it's easier for scarecrow to get his game going than it is for us. Like you said, we rely on a knockdown. Which is not as easy for us as it is for scarecrow in this matchup.

I don't think this matchup is a hard 6-4, it could be 5-5 but slightly leaning towards Scarecrow just because of how much easier it is for him to 'get going'.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
First off, @Vex uses power blades and therefore is the inferior beetle.

But in all seriousness, there is a good chance that I'm overreacting. If the Beetle is on their top game with power blades we can play the footsie game with scarecrow. It's just unfavorable for the most-part, because it's easier for scarecrow to get his game going than it is for us. Like you said, we rely on a knockdown. Which is not as easy for us as it is for scarecrow in this matchup.

I don't think this matchup is a hard 6-4, it could be 5-5 but slightly leaning towards Scarecrow just because of how much easier it is for him to 'get going'.
Did I just stumble onto some Beetle main drama? XD But yeah, Vex has a tough time in neutral too. (Until he gets literally any touch, and then it's time to hold onto your hat and guess lol.)
 

Vex

Noob
First off, @Vex uses power blades and therefore is the inferior beetle.

But in all seriousness, there is a good chance that I'm overreacting. If the Beetle is on their top game with power blades we can play the footsie game with scarecrow. It's just unfavorable for the most-part, because it's easier for scarecrow to get his game going than it is for us. Like you said, we rely on a knockdown. Which is not as easy for us as it is for scarecrow in this matchup.

I don't think this matchup is a hard 6-4, it could be 5-5 but slightly leaning towards Scarecrow just because of how much easier it is for him to 'get going'.
Well well well, we meet again Dunkin Dan. The way of the blade will always prove better than the way of the donut!

After grinding the mu pretty extensively with scarecrow in BOTH stances (yes I can actually play donut stance sometimes), I could definitely agree that trait is the way to go. I do believe that, even then, scarecrow has a slight advantage in the neutral with that darn F2. But it isn't a significant advantage.
 

AkioOf100

I play Raph
Ahem, Edward Scissorhands.

I think a lot of his advantage comes from forcing us on the ground, so we're forced to use trait (which is inferior to donuts). He beats out our pokes with his, and can weirdly interrupt 13 fc more consistently than a lot of people in the cast, so no gimmicks, only j3 flight cancel (but remember, we can't jump much). He has a lot of forward advancing strings, but we can definitely check him with f2 a lot. We just have to watch out for MB B3 when trying to use F2 to check him, honestly.

If we block a single f2, scarecrow is definitely going to go for MB DB2. And then, we're stuck in his frame trap mix-ups. :T

Am I making this sound a lot worse than it actually is?
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Premium Supporter
Starfire loses 7-3. Her zoning is ineffective due to teleport on fullscreen and range at mid-screen, her upclose game gets shut down by superior frames. She literally can't even get anything started with a d1.
It’s not 7-3 but it’s definitely not in starfire’s favour. I lean to it being more even.
 

Vex

Noob
Ahem, Edward Scissorhands.

I think a lot of his advantage comes from forcing us on the ground, so we're forced to use trait (which is inferior to donuts). He beats out our pokes with his, and can weirdly interrupt 13 fc more consistently than a lot of people in the cast, so no gimmicks, only j3 flight cancel (but remember, we can't jump much). He has a lot of forward advancing strings, but we can definitely check him with f2 a lot. We just have to watch out for MB B3 when trying to use F2 to check him, honestly.

If we block a single f2, scarecrow is definitely going to go for MB DB2. And then, we're stuck in his frame trap mix-ups. :T

Am I making this sound a lot worse than it actually is?
No you aren't. Only thing I would disagree on is the 13 flight cancel. I swear 13 flight j2 looks like a block infinite sometimes and fox could vouch for me on that one lol.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
The 13 flight cancel loop is ridiculous. You can interrupt the flight with a standing 1, but it's extremely difficult to convert from. You can also D1 after the jump in, but if Beetle breaks the loop to mix you eat it free. Also, if you try to standing 1 and Beetle instead crosses you up, 9/10 you're eating it, especially if you're just committing to mashing 11. I pushblock that stuff lol, it's OD.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
It’s not 7-3 but it’s definitely not in starfire’s favour. I lean to it being more even.
The idea that the matchup is not in Starfire's favor is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Other than whiffing a F1 into F13 (always yolo, never guaranteed) she beats him everywhere. He can't jump and his F2 range doesn't mean a thing in the MU. He has no reliable way to cover all of her wakeup options so stuffing or neutral jumping is out of the question, you have to respect her knockdown. The only thing I'll give him is that her projectiles have poor recovery, so teleport is viable on a read. Still, having to resort to yolo options to get in while holding chip doesn't sound even to me, not in the slightest.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Meanwhile, while feeling very strongly that Starfire wins the MU, I don't see the same problem with Fate. In terms of range, he can't compete on the ground or in the air. We can fear wave the orb along with his projectile simultaneously and teleport his MB projectile, so we're never truly locked down. On knockdown, his wakeup can be stuffed with B12 which pretty much hit confirms itself. I think Fate doesn't have to work as hard to play keep away because of his walk speed, but once you're in neutral Fate is WAY easier to deal with than Starfire. The highest level Fates I've played are Ninequads and Djon so idk, maybe I just haven't been properly schooled, but I'd take Fate any day of the week.
 

Evil Presence

Representing STB
The idea that the matchup is not in Starfire's favor is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Other than whiffing a F1 into F13 (always yolo, never guaranteed) she beats him everywhere. He can't jump and his F2 range doesn't mean a thing in the MU. He has no reliable way to cover all of her wakeup options so stuffing or neutral jumping is out of the question, you have to respect her knockdown. The only thing I'll give him is that her projectiles have poor recovery, so teleport is viable on a read. Still, having to resort to yolo options to get in while holding chip doesn't sound even to me, not in the slightest.
Hmm I've never really felt the matchup was too difficult. Full screen she wins
Midscreen it's even and up close I always felt like Scarecrow wins. I don't think she is a hard counterpick. Nowhere near how hard the Batman MU is.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Hmm I've never really felt the matchup was too difficult. Full screen she wins
Midscreen it's even and up close I always felt like Scarecrow wins. I don't think she is a hard counterpick. Nowhere near how hard the Batman MU is.
Nah, I don't really think it's even midscreen. She has very easy answers for every approach and her F22 and MB B3 demand enough respect to shut down neutral (again, jumping is a no no). If anything, I get places by baiting and punishing an option, but that's exactly the definition of a losing MU.

You're 110% correct though, it's still not in the ballpark of "hold this, I do what I want" Batman. The hierarchy of my do not want list for Crow is like
1. Batman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Starfire
4. Green Arrow
5. Catwoman

I don't give a heck about Deadshot and Fate, they're fine lol.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Premium Supporter
Nah, I don't really think it's even midscreen. She has very easy answers for every approach and her F22 and MB B3 demand enough respect to shut down neutral (again, jumping is a no no). If anything, I get places by baiting and punishing an option, but that's exactly the definition of a losing MU.

You're 110% correct though, it's still not in the ballpark of "hold this, I do what I want" Batman. The hierarchy of my do not want list for Crow is like
1. Batman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Starfire
4. Green Arrow
5. Catwoman

I don't give a heck about Deadshot and Fate, they're fine lol.
Nah mate you’re playing the matchup wrong.

You can tele on reaction to her mid fireball and full combo punish. All her other projectiles hit high so you can just duck till you get in sweep range and go to town.

Her main footsie string starts high it’s not like she wins neutral against half screen normals scarecrow.

I honestly feel she might lose this matchup post patch but for now I have it as even. She 100% does not win it.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Nah mate you’re playing the matchup wrong.

You can tele on reaction to her mid fireball and full combo punish. All her other projectiles hit high so you can just duck till you get in sweep range and go to town.

Her main footsie string starts high it’s not like she wins neutral against half screen normals scarecrow.

I honestly feel she might lose this matchup post patch but for now I have it as even. She 100% does not win it.
Her F22 being a high doesn't mean a thing. It beats his F2 in terms of startup and competes with its range just fine. You aren't just going to step into that range and D2 because of her other options, nor are you going to D2 on reaction. Again, F1 is not a viable option because you're either asking to be whiff punished or beat out with F22 at a range where it will actually connect. The primary advantage of F2 is its ability to contest armor, but her B3 has disgusting range so that doesn't really apply.

Sorry, but even the scrubbiest Starfire isn't going to just let you walk down into sweep range. You're left playing a reactionary game between MB B3 and F22 because making the first move leaves you wide open. And that's not even getting into pushblock, which she will almost always have meter for. Even when you find an opening, nothing is guaranteed from there.

So again, reactionary game. She straight up does what she wants.
 
Reactions: Vex
I've never had much trouble jumping at Starfire to be honest. She has to stick to Trait & DF1 because any read on Stardust will give you a full combo punish. He can blow up her wake up with a well timed standing 2. She does build more meter than him which can help in the MU but even from the start I've never felt he loses it.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
I've never had much trouble jumping at Starfire to be honest. She has to stick to Trait & DF1 because any read on Stardust will give you a full combo punish. He can blow up her wake up with a well timed standing 2. She does build more meter than him which can help in the MU but even from the start I've never felt he loses it.
I get blown up in J2 range with MB B3 and B2 in J3 range. Trait also covers jump ins pretty easily. Disco lights on reaction is another option. All Starfire wants in this world is for you to jump lol. The only time I jump in is if they're still going projectile happy with no trait available. As far as wakeups go, I stuff hair with B22 midscreen and B1 in the corner. However, her charge will beat out both. Haven't tried standing 2 but it doesn't seem like that would help with the charge either.
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion. Maybe I need a therapist for my Starfire trauma. I'd way prefer using post patch Swamp Thing in the MU TBH.
 
Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion. Maybe I need a therapist for my Starfire trauma. I'd way prefer using post patch Swamp Thing in the MU TBH.
No, I agree man. Starfire wrecks Crow. I'd say it's a certain 4-6. I'd also much rather use Swamp in the matchup. Good to see someone use the same 2 characters as me
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
I have Poison Ivy down as a 5 - 5, I think her wake up helped her a bit and Scarecrow struggles against her trait