Robin Trait Cancel Frame Data

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I will eventually add Birdarang cancel data but be nearly as pretty lol.

All testing is subject to change with better testing lol. Everything is slightly safer from max range against a reversal that punishes it point blank. A faster reversal may still punish it at range but not always. Normals can’t punish moves the same frames as their startup. A 7 frame normal cannot punish a -7 move but a 6 frame normal can barring pushback.

"Normals that are 7f can punish -8. Startup in the move list frame data is true startup, no active frames included."
"There is a 2f buffer when doing normals out of blockstun in INJ2. So instead of 1f window for frame perfect normal punish, it's a 3f window"
- Aaron Davis @DizzyKnee

Frame data punish tests:
5f - Super Girl Super
6f - Flash/superman Super, WW d1
7f - manual testing with normals and specials, Arrow d1
8f - WW shield bash, WW standing 1
9 - Robin Sword Dance
10 - Bane Super , WW s2
11f - WW shield toss, WW b1

Trait cancel data on block
b1: -9 safe from max range depending on reversal
b12: -9 distance is less of a factor here
b2: -7 but safe from jump distance
b21: -8 but safe at max range
f2: -7 but safe from max range
f21: -8 but safe from max range
f2d3: -12
2: -9 but safe from max range
21 -8 but safe from max range
212: -1 or -2

I did test 1 and 12 but they are so negative and shouldn't be used in cancel pressure.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

@EMPEROR PRYCE @Red Raptor @hayatei @SylverRye @HomeLee1121 @Pig Of The Hut

The more you know i guess.

 

[ATP2014]

While probably pretty negative, what about d12?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

While probably pretty negative, what about d12?

good question...its at least -15 cause WW standing 3 (14 frames) beats it.

 

[TakeAChance]

Imagine how much better this character would be if we could call on his trait mid combo of mid jump. Good lord.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

This frame data is horrendous. Wow

 

[@MylesWright_]

I thought B2 into Red birdarang in the corner was pretty cheap a couple days ago. Seems quite honest now

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I thought B2 into Red birdarang in the corner was pretty cheap a couple days ago. Seems quite honest now

If you are not ready for it, it is good good good. If you know, you can either punish with 6 frame normal or at least make it your turn.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Gimmie goodies betch

here

 

[Recon]

any frame data on the blue rang on recall? it would be nice to know if he can make it meaty and plus on block.

 

[Reauxbot]

I'm pretty curious. And may I add to this good findings.
However I notice no one ever really punishes trait cancels. I see a lot of pros get away with negative trait cancels.*cough* Batman trait cancels.
And does 212 have a gap?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

any frame data on the blue rang on recall? it would be nice to know if he can make it meaty and plus on block.

at point blank, it is zero...any distance at all makes it plus on block. It has many potential applications but it is hard to set up.

I'm pretty curious. And may I add to this good findings.
However I notice no one ever really punishes trait cancels. I see a lot of pros get away with negative trait cancels.*cough* Batman trait cancels.
And does 212 have a gap?

When people get used to it, they sill start punishing them and yes 212 has a gap.

 

[Jinxd4Ev3r]

After reading this post I've been using 212 far blue trait d12 trait to set up +frames to great success, but now that I test it out in training I can't seem to get 212 trait cancel to be any better than -2.

A 6f d1 beats Robin's d1 after the 212xxtrait and trades with an 8f reversal.

Are you sure its 0 on block or is there something I'm missing?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

After reading this post I've been using 212 far blue trait d12 trait to set up +frames to great success, but now that I test it out in training I can't seem to get 212 trait cancel to be any better than -2.

A 6f d1 beats Robin's d1 after the 212xxtrait and trades with an 8f reversal.

Are you sure its 0 on block or is there something I'm missing?

I tested this all manually and had others give me input and 0 was the collective agreement. There is always room for error. I imagine that different move properties, hitbox, hurtbox etc will all play a factor.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I tested this all manually and had others give me input and 0 was the collective agreement. There is always room for error. I imagine that different move properties, hitbox, hurtbox etc will all play a factor.

Im pretty positive that 212 trait is -1. I can get the d1 after to punish 7 frame moves but it feels way to hard for that to be a 2 frame window. Anything that is 6 frames i have never traded with and if you both jump after then it looks that robin gets off the ground slightly later

 

[Jinxd4Ev3r]

Im pretty positive that 212 trait is -1. I can get the d1 after to punish 7 frame moves but it feels way to hard for that to be a 2 frame window. Anything that is 6 frames i have never traded with and if you both jump after then it looks that robin gets off the ground slightly later

Its definitely negative. I tested it with Robin Defend (RD) v Robin Attack (RA) and had both Robin's db2 after 212xxtrait was done by RA. RD always wins.

RD does get off the ground earlier for sure.

I think you're right about -1. I can get RA d3 (11f) to trade with RD's s3 (12f) and I cant get d1(6f) to trade with d2 (6f). Its weird though that I can get bf3 (8f) to trade with d1.

Its -1. Using standing 3 which is -1 on guard creates the exact same situation. bf3 trades (for some reason). d1 wins, db2 loses. (With RA using d1 after s3). And s3 from RD trades with d3 from RA.

Sorry if that was confusing. I tried my best to have it make sense.

 

[RM Ree]

Its definitely negative. I tested it with Robin Defend (RD) v Robin Attack (RA) and had both Robin's db2 after 212xxtrait was done by RA. RD always wins.

From the sounds of it, RD is winning because his db2 is happening as a reversal.

It takes 1 frame to come out of blockstun and return to true neutral. Reversal special moves ignore this rule, allowing RD to act 1 frame earlier than he would otherwise be able to. Hope this helps.

 

[AeWhole]

With his trait only leaving him only a little plus on knockdown or neutral up close and most of his strings having gaps this character is hard. How does any Robin player do well? I feel like I end up B2 spamming or D1D2 staggering until I confirm something then I need to sacrifice damage just to get a setup that literally some of the better wakeups can disrespect.

 

[HeroesNZ]

With the blue trait already out and positioned so that it doesn't hit the opponent initially:
212 recall is about +5
B2, F2, F21, B21 recall are all around 0/-1

 

[Roko1985]

Im pretty positive that 212 trait is -1. I can get the d1 after to punish 7 frame moves but it feels way to hard for that to be a 2 frame window. Anything that is 6 frames i have never traded with and if you both jump after then it looks that robin gets off the ground slightly later

Keep in mind that when you do something on block, the dummy jumps always 1 frame later! So if you see that you jump at the same time, it is actually -1 on block!

 

[AK XEN0M0RPH]

thats alot of wowo testing lol

 

[gam224]

Please tag me in future robin posts. Good stuff