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Red Hood's D1: The High-Hitting Mid D1

Alien Substance

Evanesce
Lead Moderator
News Editor
Greetings, fellow weary travelers and fabulous adventurers.

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Update with v1.19: RH's D1 remains a high-hitting mid from his hand to his forearm, but it is now a true mid from his elbow to his knee. He can now hit Atom out of his Shrink state, and hit Catwoman during her B3 startup and recovery. To use the true mid, you must be at touching distance with your opponent; it is unlikely for Red Hood to take advantage of the true mid if he gets pushed away from the opponent at all. Keep this principle in mind when playing the game. Hyperlink to the full post.
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Red Hood's D1 looks like a good poke on the surface, if not somewhat stubby. Six frames of startup, a couple of active frames, quick recovery, minus three on block and plus eleven on hit. It is a mid like most other D1s. However, as a result of the animation and hitbox properties, there is one weakness that turns the tides against Red Hood in particular situations when fighting certain characters. The first problem: his D1 is an upwards backhand. The second and primary problem is that the hitbox is directly on his hand and a bit of his arm.

The issue arising from such a design choice is what I call "Sword Spin Syndrome"; which is so named after a moment wherein I discovered an interesting aspect of 3D hitboxes on a 2D plane. (The hyperlink leads to a gif of Mr. Voorhees using a non-armored command grab against Kenshi's Sword Spin. The whiff on Jason's part is due to grab immunity; Kenshi whiffs the attack because its hitbox is solely on the blade, and Jason presses into him at the same time. A phenomenon worthy of study.)

Red Hood's D1 is usable in many scenarios, but in situations when it becomes unreliable, the whiffing hurts his mediocre defense. He is already balanced to not be able to link his D1 into a meter burn-able special for a full combo, so having this whiffing issue on top of it is rather grievous for the poor guy. It ramps up his daily prescription of Vitamin Edge. I have recorded a video to showcase the whiffing problem.


Hyperlink to the video.
  1. Supergirl, Frost Breath MB into D1. SG lowers herself down for the low kick. RH's D1 must be timed perfectly, otherwise it whiffs over her. When Frost Breath is extended before the MB, D1 will not work at all due to the pushback.
  2. Wonder Woman, D3. No counter-poking with D1 is allowed whatsoever. This is perhaps the most ridiculous instance of RH's D1 whiffing.
  3. Cyborg, D1 into D3. Another evasive sweep.
  4. Green Lantern, D1 into B1. When spaced properly, GL's B1 can avoid the hitbox of RH's D1. If GL does B1 from any closer than the far reaches of his D1, he can get hit.
  5. The Flash, D2. A similar scenario to WoWo's D3. The Flash has a lowered hurtbox that cannot be hit by RH's D1. Even when the D1 makes contact, Flash has already recovered for a block.
  6. Catwoman, B3. This was obvious since it avoids seemingly everything, but it was included for the purpose of showcasing Red Hood's D1.
  7. Captain Cold, D1 mash. RH cannot counter-poke except for a well-timed and spaced reversal Trait 3. On that note, I'd like Captain Cold to be buffed as well.
The first solution I present is to give RH's D1 a better downward hitbox (without extending its horizontal/forward range) so it can be more of a proper mid. The second solution would be to replace the D1 animation with something more appropriate for a true mid-hitting D1 – maybe a short-ranged, stubby knife slash that doesn't aim upwards. The third and most desirable solution is for RH to be equipped with jet-powered thrusters for aerial Dive-Kicking capability. Mr. Paulo – Lord Of NRS Gameplay Design – I beseech you to grant us a reliable D1. Thank you very much.

Any comments, questions or stories pertaining to Red Hood's D1 can be posted here.
 

Crusty

Retired ATM
You people thought I was exaggerating when I raged about this for weeks.
 
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Neeko

Noob
This is so important. I want to be a red hood main but I have to have a side manta for this reason. Some match ups are unbearable because of this problem. Cheetah also doesn't care about it. And I haven't tested but it seems like enchantress might be an issue too. I feel like it's a real unnecessary hurdle for him when he already has poor defense like you said. And again even if my d1 hit all you can get is trait. And if they block there's a gap. Lol pls fix this
 

Crusty

Retired ATM
It disgusts me NRS let this and several other of RH's problems untouched. Like why don't people look into this?
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
A lot of the examples in the OP video are actually specific to those characters and not to Red Hood.

Although it is a pretty below average D1. Down there with Darkseid and Turtles.
 
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Crusty

Retired ATM
A lot of the examples in the OP video are actually specific to those characters and not to Red Hood.

Although it is a pretty average D1. Down there with Darkseid and Turtles.
I can't even hit Atom out of trait with it.
 

Crusty

Retired ATM
A lot of people can't do that to be fair, even good D1's whiff against it like Robin
How many strings does the average character have that they can use against Atom in trait.

I dunno the answer to that question but I know this, RH's fastest move against atom in trait is his lunge in that situation and while I haven't tested the how to do it in the heat of the moment yet, that shouldn't be my answer out of everything. Outside of that my only reliable moves to hit him out if I'm lucky is d3 or b2 (a 14 frame low), everything else he just ignores, its frustrating at times.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
How many strings does the average character have that they can use against Atom in trait.

I dunno the answer to that question but I know this, RH's fastest move against atom in trait is his lunge in that situation and while I haven't tested the how to do it in the heat of the moment yet, that shouldn't be my answer out of everything. Outside of that my only reliable moves to hit him out if I'm lucky is d3 or b2 (a 14 frame low), everything else he just ignores, its frustrating at times.
Different characters struggle with Atom's trait different. Darkseid doesn't have a button that hits Atom of trait so there's that.

D2 works for RH provided Atom is close enough.
https://testyourmight.com/threads/atom-low-profiling-101.66657/
 

Alien Substance

Evanesce
Lead Moderator
News Editor
Red Hood's D1 has been adjusted in the latest patch (v1.19) for Injustice 2. It is listed as a "slightly adjusted Hit Region". From my testing, it is now a true mid beneath his elbow. I have made a new video to demonstrate the adjusted hitbox, specifically against Wonder Woman's D3: the most notorious character for Red Hood's whiffing problems.

Previously, Red Hood could not at all hit Wonder Woman out of her D3 while she lowered herself toward the ground, and this can be confirmed in the video I linked in the opening post. As you may see in the new video, D1 is now able to collide with Wonder Woman's hitbox if she whiffs her D3 and Jason happens to be behind her. Unfortunately, if RH tries to use a crouching upward strike against her low sweep from the front, he still cannot hit her.


Hyperlink to the video.

RH's D1 remains a high-hitting mid from his hand to his forearm, but it is now a true mid from his elbow to his knee. He can now hit Atom out of his Shrink state, and hit Catwoman during her B3 startup and recovery. To use the true mid, you must be at touching distance with your opponent; it is unlikely for Red Hood to take advantage of the true mid if he gets pushed away from the opponent at all. Keep this principle in mind when playing as the Master Of Edge. It is not quite the 8-frame Superman F2 advancing mid in Electric Hammers stance that I dreamt about, but give thanks to Lord Paulo, for he has done something nice to Red Hood.