Red Hood Matchup Discussion

[M2Dave]

I finally played a good deadshot in ranked. I'm literally at a fucking loss for words at how stupid this character is. I have to vent.

His zoning is some of the most oppressive shit I've ever had to work against. The recovery on quickshot is absurd. It's too easy to whiff 50 quickshots in a row, and then just throw out one of his other random projectiles with pushback and long ass animation. But whatever. A zoner good at zoning. Wow.

But then add in the fact that his close up game is actually fucking good just blows my fucking mind. Close, far, mid-screen, between Paulo's massive ass cheeks, anywhere on the screen this guy functions either well, or overwhelming well. If this character has a glaring weakness, it's that he's not just used by everyone everywhere all the time. Just call is Deadshot: Featuring Injustice 2 and Friends.

The match is difficult, but Red Hood performs better than most characters. You can use trait shots to trade with high shots. The trade is even unless Deadshot activates trait and equips blue or red bullets. Using trait shot wisely causes Deadshot players to rely on low rifle shot, which allows you to dash forward, jump, drop a mine, or close the gap quickly with MB forward lunge. MB backward lunge is also an option albeit not as effective as it is in some other match ups (i.e., versus Dr. Fate and Starfire).

Red Hood also has a couple of other minor advantages such as the ability to punish b+1,2,u+3 every time no matter the cancel, with the exception of the MB bounce cancel, though. In addition, Deadshot cannot punish the overhead trait string and generally has a difficult time punishing regular lunge from certain ranges.

I think the match is either even or slightly in Deadshot's favor. Black Manta and Starfire have been a non-issue for me thus far. What makes Red Hood so good is his versatility. When one strategy does not work out (i.e., zoning), another one usually does (i.e., footsies, okizeme mine set ups, etc.)

 

[Boss Savage]

The match is difficult, but Red Hood performs better than most characters. You can use trait shots to trade with high shots. The trade is even unless Deadshot activates trait and equips blue or red bullets. Using trait shot wisely causes Deadshot players to rely on low rifle shot, which allows you to dash forward, jump, drop a mine, or close the gap quickly with MB forward lunge. MB backward lunge is also an option albeit not as effective as it is in some other match ups (i.e., versus Dr. Fate and Starfire).

Red Hood also has a couple of other minor advantages such as the ability to punish b+1,2,u+3 every time no matter the cancel, with the exception of the MB bounce cancel, though. In addition, Deadshot cannot punish the overhead trait string and generally has a difficult time punishing regular lunge from certain ranges.

I think the match is either even or slightly in Deadshot's favor. Black Manta and Starfire have been a non-issue for me thus far. What makes Red Hood so good is his versatility. When one strategy does not work out (i.e., zoning), another one usually does (i.e., footsies, okizeme mine set ups, etc.)

Thanks. That was really insightful. I guess just have to lab more. You're right too. What makes RH really fun is his versatility. Thanks again.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

The match is difficult, but Red Hood performs better than most characters. You can use trait shots to trade with high shots. The trade is even unless Deadshot activates trait and equips blue or red bullets. Using trait shot wisely causes Deadshot players to rely on low rifle shot, which allows you to dash forward, jump, drop a mine, or close the gap quickly with MB forward lunge. MB backward lunge is also an option albeit not as effective as it is in some other match ups (i.e., versus Dr. Fate and Starfire).

Red Hood also has a couple of other minor advantages such as the ability to punish b+1,2,u+3 every time no matter the cancel, with the exception of the MB bounce cancel, though. In addition, Deadshot cannot punish the overhead trait string and generally has a difficult time punishing regular lunge from certain ranges.

I think the match is either even or slightly in Deadshot's favor. Black Manta and Starfire have been a non-issue for me thus far. What makes Red Hood so good is his versatility. When one strategy does not work out (i.e., zoning), another one usually does (i.e., footsies, okizeme mine set ups, etc.)

Good stuff bro Do you main red hood? And can you give me some advice on the starfire match i know im not playing that match right her zoning seems to lock me down completely any time i try to use a mine her trait beats me out. any advice would be much apreciated

 

[Crusty]

Good stuff bro Do you main red hood? And can you give me some advice on the starfire match i know im not playing that match right her zoning seems to lock me down completely any time i try to use a mine her trait beats me out. any advice would be much apreciated

Yes, he dropped darkseid for Red Hood

 

[DefiantSouls]

For starfire I usually bait out her trait and after that the rest of her projectiles are too slow so you can get free mines and stars etc. For black manta I try to play patient and only throw out a few things every once in awhile, don't get too predictable or like you said they will punish with teleport.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Yes, he dropped darkseid for Red Hood

Thats awesome

 

[M2Dave]

And can you give me some advice on the starfire match i know im not playing that match right her zoning seems to lock me down completely any time i try to use a mine her trait beats me out. any advice would be much apreciated

@DefiantSouls is right. Bait and crouch the beam. EX backward lunge works effectively against starblast (d,f+1) while EX forward lunge beats stardust (d,b+1). She has no 50/50 mix ups, but she does very good damage, even after the most recent patch. Watch out for random b+3s and MB b+3s in footsies. Whoever establishes the life lead in this match wins because both characters have strong zoning and over-committing results in punishes.

I have used Red Hood for almost a month now. The most difficult but not necessary losing match ups seem to be against the following characters.

- Batman (proper trait management means he almost always has bats)
- Black Adam (hard to zone and play footsies against)
- Black Canary (powerful option select 50/50 mix up in the corner that Red Hood cannot avoid)
- Catwoman (difficult to zone because of fast walk speed, low whip, and j.2)
- Cheetah (pounce is tough to contain, especially considering the difference in damage output between both characters)
- Deadshot (strong zoning and 50/50 mix up game)
- Dr. Fate (Mb orb shuts down movement while trait fireballs deal massive damage)
- Supergirl (overall solid character with very few, if any, weaknesses)
- Superman (see Supergirl but to a lesser extent)

I have limited to no match up experience against the following characters.

- Atrocitus
- Brainiac
- Darkseid

 

[Red Hood MKX]

@DefiantSouls is right. Bait and crouch the beam. EX backward lunge works effectively against starblast (d,f+1) while EX forward lunge beats stardust (d,b+1). She has no 50/50 mix ups, but she does very good damage, even after the most recent patch. Watch out for random b+3s and MB b+3s in footsies. Whoever establishes the life lead in this match wins because both characters have strong zoning and over-committing results in punishes.

I have used Red Hood for almost a month now. The most difficult but not necessary losing match ups seem to be against the following characters.

- Batman (proper trait management means he almost always has bats)
- Black Adam (hard to zone and play footsies against)
- Black Canary (powerful option select 50/50 mix up in the corner that Red Hood cannot avoid)
- Catwoman (difficult to zone because of fast walk speed, low whip, and j.2)
- Cheetah (pounce is tough to contain, especially considering the difference in damage output between both characters)
- Deadshot (strong zoning and 50/50 mix up game)
- Dr. Fate (Mb orb shuts down movement while trait fireballs deal massive damage)
- Supergirl (overall solid character with very few, if any, weaknesses)
- Superman (see Supergirl but to a lesser extent)

I have limited to no match up experience against the following characters.

- Atrocitus
- Brainiac
- Darkseid

Thanks for the tips bro i just picked up red hood a couple of weeks ago i been a long time batman and superman co main since inj1 and those two characters can pretty much cover most of the cast.

What you've stated there i kinda notice red hood feels wierd against adam darkseid cheetah catwoman deadshot and fate.

I really like red hood i think he is cool as fuck but i dont see how he compliments my already good team of batman and sups these two characters really do well against all these characters like bats beats adam cheetah sups beats fate etc the rest are pretty much even maybe except for deadshot but i really dont see myself using red hood too much longer kinda sucks because hood is so cool but i really like how bats and sups handles most of the cast it just feels like i always have and advantage. and i notice red hood possibly struggles against flash too imo

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Can someone please give me some advice on the cheetah matchup it seems really tough for red hood. I cannot seem to anti air her she gets in for free from full screen and then im getting mixed to death this match up almost feels worse than deadshot

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Can someone please give me some advice on the cheetah matchup it seems really tough for red hood. I cannot seem to anti air her she gets in for free from full screen and then im getting mixed to death this match up almost feels worse than deadshot

She is still my personal worst MU in the game.

 

[Dean]

Looking for MU advice against Flash?

The Flash. He smothers me, I played a very solid flash player earlier, I literally felt like I just couldn't find an answer to this MU and his play style.
I know I can hit Flash out of running man with stars. Only when charging though. This guy just vibrated all my stars and mines and built a ton of meter in the process.
Completely negated all zoning options with running man cancels and vibrating.
Now I built meter too, problem is, as important as meter is for RH, it's even more valuable to the Flash. IMO
One touch, one bar of meter, can produce like 500 damage. Easy. That's scary shit when you see a Flash player (very good flash player) with a full stick of butter. Deadly combos and super fast super at his disposal.
Next issue was that Flash always out air to air'd me with his multi hitting leg kick (I don't play Flash so I don't know his buttons). Which lead to a full combo.
B1, 3 leads to an easy low combo for Flash. With big damage. Same was happening with F2, 3.
B2, 3 would constantly get stuffed by his spinning wheel of death combo string.
I don't know the frame data, I could've just been super off on my timing, but I felt his poke was incredibly faster than mine, which also lead into full combos.
Keeping him in the corner felt so hard in comparison to many other characters.
He jumped out consistently, his wake up attack is super good, felt like his multipunch wake up attack breaks armor.
Not sure though.
Flash builds meter so easily, I always felt behind on the meter aspect of life.
I couldn't maintain space against this character. I couldn't comfortably throw mines, create setups. Shit just felt fucked.

I'm sure a lot of these things I'm just sucking and don't understand the MU at all. Usually I find ways around problems I have exp with certain characters.
I literally couldn't figure out an answer to any of this pressure I was facing to save my life. It was brutal.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Boss Savage]

In

Looking for MU advice against Flash?

The Flash. He smothers me, I played a very solid flash player earlier, I literally felt like I just couldn't find an answer to this MU and his play style.
I know I can hit Flash out of running man with stars. Only when charging though. This guy just vibrated all my stars and mines and built a ton of meter in the process.
Completely negated all zoning options with running man cancels and vibrating.
Now I built meter too, problem is, as important as meter is for RH, it's even more valuable to the Flash. IMO
One touch, one bar of meter, can produce like 500 damage. Easy. That's scary shit when you see a Flash player (very good flash player) with a full stick of butter. Deadly combos and super fast super at his disposal.
Next issue was that Flash always out air to air'd me with his multi hitting leg kick (I don't play Flash so I don't know his buttons). Which lead to a full combo.
B1, 3 leads to an easy low combo for Flash. With big damage. Same was happening with F2, 3.
B2, 3 would constantly get stuffed by his spinning wheel of death combo string.
I don't know the frame data, I could've just been super off on my timing, but I felt his poke was incredibly faster than mine, which also lead into full combos.
Keeping him in the corner felt so hard in comparison to many other characters.
He jumped out consistently, his wake up attack is super good, felt like his multipunch wake up attack breaks armor.
Not sure though.
Flash builds meter so easily, I always felt behind on the meter aspect of life.
I couldn't maintain space against this character. I couldn't comfortably throw mines, create setups. Shit just felt fucked.

I'm sure a lot of these things I'm just sucking and don't understand the MU at all. Usually I find ways around problems I have exp with certain characters.
I literally couldn't figure out an answer to any of this pressure I was facing to save my life. It was brutal.

Any advice is appreciated.

I played a really good flash not too long ago. I had much of the same problems as you.

Zoning flash is hard. Especially a good flash. Your best bet is staying at max distance with mine (staying close enough so the very far mine reaches him), and putting up as much as a barrier as possible between you and him with projectiles. That includes everything and the kitchen sink. Gotham stars (As garbage as MB stars is, it's still a constantly firing projectile able to cover MB rolls and Jump ins. It also hits flash out of vibrating IIRC), Up Gotham stars, both lunges, trait gunshot, and whatever the air gunshots are called.

Also mixing up between the mine ranges makes it a lot it harder to move in. Constantly putting the mine at max distance makes it a lot easier to just dash or MB roll in. If you feel like flash (or anyone for that matter) is going to try and move in closer, throwing out a close or even normal distance mine here and there will make them possibly second guess themselves in fear of running into it.. If they don't care and still try to move in with a mine near you, throwing out forwards or backwards MB lunges to try and punish can help a lot. Of course this will still come down to a read. Mixing up your projectiles and seeing how they react to each one is key. A lot of people love to jump over mines. Making the read to throw Up stars really easy. Some good players will wait though and jump at seemingly unpredictable times. If you're unsure if they're going jump, dash, or MB roll in, throwing out MB stars can really help ease prediction since it's able to cover all those options only at the cost of a bar..

In my fight with flash, when he'd go into running man stance, I was usually able to hit him out of it with a mixture of air gunshots, trait shot, and B12?(whichever string has the explosion as the second hit). B12 is the most interesting because of how long the range is on the explosion, and the fact that it sends them full screen. You'd be surprised how easy it is to hit flash out of RMS at full screen when he tries to move in with it. The Explosion usually catches him. Of course none of those worked all the time. But they do make it a hassle for flash to even try and use RMS. Sometimes when flash would go into running man stance at full screen, I was also able to just wait it out with trait shot. Just sitting there and waiting for him move in. I think only his slide is able to go under trait shot. But I honestly can't remember. Still though it's a good safe option since trait shot is so fast.

The biggest problem that I still can't figure out for myself is what to do in the neutral at midscreen. Zoning works. Kinda. But I'll admit that zoning out the flash all game is impossible. Even if you manage to hit him back to full screen with B12 (I hope that's the string), he's usually able to just move in and do it all over again.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

In


I played a really good flash not too long ago. I had much of the same problems as you.

Zoning flash is hard. Especially a good flash. Your best bet is staying at max distance with mine (staying close enough so the very far mine reaches him), and putting up as much as a barrier as possible between you and him with projectiles. That includes everything and the kitchen sink. Gotham stars (As garbage as MB stars is, it's still a constantly firing projectile able to cover MB rolls and Jump ins. It also hits flash out of vibrating IIRC), Up Gotham stars, both lunges, trait gunshot, and whatever the air gunshots are called.

Also mixing up between the mine ranges makes it a lot it harder to move in. Constantly putting the mine at max distance makes it a lot easier to just dash or MB roll in. If you feel like flash (or anyone for that matter) is going to try and move in closer, throwing out a close or even normal distance mine here and there will make them possibly second guess themselves in fear of running into it.. If they don't care and still try to move in with a mine near you, throwing out forwards or backwards MB lunges to try and punish can help a lot. Of course this will still come down to a read. Mixing up your projectiles and seeing how they react to each one is key. A lot of people love to jump over mines. Making the read to throw Up stars really easy. Some good players will wait though and jump at seemingly unpredictable times. If you're unsure if they're going jump, dash, or MB roll in, throwing out MB stars can really help ease prediction since it's able to cover all those options only at the cost of a bar..

In my fight with flash, when he'd go into running man stance, I was usually able to hit him out of it with a mixture of air gunshots, trait shot, and B12?(whichever string has the explosion as the second hit). B12 is the most interesting because of how long the range is on the explosion, and the fact that it sends them full screen. You'd be surprised how easy it is to hit flash out of RMS at full screen when he tries to move in with it. The Explosion usually catches him. Of course none of those worked all the time. But they do make it a hassle for flash to even try and use RMS. Sometimes when flash would go into running man stance at full screen, I was also able to just wait it out with trait shot. Just sitting there and waiting for him move in. I think only his slide is able to go under trait shot. But I honestly can't remember. Still though it's a good safe option since trait shot is so fast.

The biggest problem that I still can't figure out for myself is what to do in the neutral at midscreen. Zoning works. Kinda. But I'll admit that zoning out the flash all game is impossible. Even if you manage to hit him back to full screen with B12 (I hope that's the string), he's usually able to just move in and do it all over again.

I have the same problems i think flash might be a legitamate bad match up for red hood and also cheetah

 

[GJX7]

I just want to open the Starfire vs Red Hood discussion, after the recent Sonicfox vs Semij game at the IPS finals there has been a lot of disagreement about who wins this match up.

Firstly, in my opinion a smart Starfire player will win the zoning war; with her mid projectile she can check a lot of Red Hood advancements and with her 12 frame start up projectile RH never has many opportunities to throw down his mine.

On the other hand, I think RH wins the up close, footsie game. Starfire has limited defensive options against RH's mine pressure and all in all RH has an easy time out poking her and challenging her fairly short range buttons.

To summarise, I think if both players are of equal skill it is a 5.5 - 4.5 MU tipping in Red Hood's favour, if you approach correctly and push Starfire to the corner IMO Red Hood will win the match up.

 

[M2Dave]

Can someone please give me some advice on the cheetah matchup it seems really tough for red hood. I cannot seem to anti air her she gets in for free from full screen and then im getting mixed to death this match up almost feels worse than deadshot

Revet used to beat me convincingly about a month ago, but I have been performing a little better each series. Even after about 100+ games, I remain perplexed on how to punish or avoid Cheetah's aerial movement consistently. She does so much more damage than Red Hood that taking risks usually results in rewards. The proper counter to the pounce involves AA stars, instant j.1, forward lunge to dive under the pounce, EX forward lunge to punish the pounce on start up, or simply blocking. When I did win games, I managed to keep Cheetah out of the air with a successful zoning sequence of AA stars and mines. Forcing Cheetah to play grounded and close vicinity footsies also seems to be a solution as her normal attacks are actually not that good.

As far as general zoning strategies are concerned against characters like The Flash, if you do not understand how to utilize mines properly, your Red Hood will never be good at zoning. Players who used characters like Freddy (spikes) in Mortal Kombat 9, Zod (low lasers) in Injustice 1, or Quan Chi (runes) and Tremor (up rocks) in Mortal Kombat X have already gained the ability to anticipate and perform the appropriate projectile according to your opponent's movement. In other words, you want to study your opponent's movement during the match and perform the appropriate mine in advance instead of simply tossing mines where your opponent is temporarily standing. Once you master this concept, your zoning with Red Hood will be significantly better. Again, if you used one of the aforementioned characters in any of the previous NRS titles at a high level, this skill should come naturally.

 

[tafka Djinn]

How to fight Flash with Red Hood: Have two bars of meter. That lets you check movement with Lunges, and pushblock him when he does get in as you will lose the up close game hard. On RMS you can try to check with air guns, or trait shot.
And most importantly work on studying your opponent's movement, and throw mines accordingly once you can anticipate them. Also adjust from using air guns/trait shot to using b2 or b1 for RMS checks once you have adapted to their movement, so as to leave yourself less open.


Honestly, as somebody who uses both characters, this MU really is all about smart zoning with Mines. If ones isn't adept at placing them Flash gets in.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

How to fight Flash with Red Hood: Have two bars of meter. That lets you check movement with Lunges, and pushblock him when he does get in as you will lose the up close game hard. On RMS you can try to check with air guns, or trait shot.
And most importantly work on studying your opponent's movement, and throw mines accordingly once you can anticipate them. Also adjust from using air guns/trait shot to using b2 or b1 for RMS checks once you have adapted to their movement, so as to leave yourself less open.


Honestly, as somebody who uses both characters, this MU really is all about smart zoning with Mines. If ones isn't adept at placing them Flash gets in.

Does RH have a decent anti-air d2?Like the normal 6-7 frame uppercut type?

 

[Boss Savage]

Does RH have a decent anti-air d2?Like the normal 6-7 frame uppercut type?

Pretty much yeah. I'd say it's solid enough. Maybe not the best in the game. But definitely useable. IIRC it's 7 frames.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

Pretty much yeah. I'd say it's solid enough. Maybe not the best in the game. But definitely useable. IIRC it's 7 frames.

Okay will start to co-main Bats and Red Hood after I buy the ultimate pack.

 

[Crusty]

Pretty much yeah. I'd say it's solid enough. Maybe not the best in the game. But definitely useable. IIRC it's 7 frames.

9 frames with only 4 active frames. Meaning it has to be timed properly.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

9 frames with only 4 active frames. Meaning it has to be timed properly.

Oh snap, I never could get the 9 frame timing down, is it really that slow?

 

[Crusty]

Oh snap, I never could get the 9 frame timing down, is it really that slow?

No 9 frames is very fast. Problem is in the active frames coupled with how ridiculous some jump ins are in this game.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

No 9 frames is very fast. Problem is in the active frames coupled with how ridiculous some jump ins are in this game.

I'm pretty sure the hitbox compensates for it but 9 frames is going to have trouble AA'ing short jump arcs(Batman, Green Lantern etc.)

 

[Boss Savage]

I'm pretty sure the hitbox compensates for it but 9 frames is going to have trouble AA'ing short jump arcs(Batman, Green Lantern etc.)

Yeah, AA'ing batman feels unreasonably hard. But this seems to be the problem for most characters. So Batman's jump attack is working as intended

9 frames with only 4 active frames. Meaning it has to be timed properly.

That makes a lot more sense. I don't think I've ever checked his D2 frames. I honestly don't know how i feel about it. I think i hate his D2. Mainly because of some of the more ridiculous jump-ins get passed it. But that just seems to be a general problem for most of the cast when it comes to their D2.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

So do you guys think red hood will be getting hit with any nerfs in the future i really hope not i think he is fine, for sure strong but not broken like deadshot