N-Zalo
Noob
A moderate petition to make spec ops viable as the other 2 variations.
This is not a thread to whine about the already done changes to the character but a place to suggest realistic ideas to make Spec Ops as viable as her sisters Hollywood and Brawler.
We all know that recent patch affected this variation the most, by taking away the armor of her only defensive option worth spending meter in (ex-flip), and nerfing her best variation specific pressure/mixup tool: b2,1,2 and b2,1,2,d2+4.
First of all brief description of what I understand this variation's meta is:
Spec ops is all about making enough space to cast rockets so you can control the space with guesses/reads. Her strength are Ex-Rocket setups, but they can be interrupted by fast projectiles or armored moves if timed wrong or telegraphed. Midscreen meterles rocket setups work only on reads and are easy to tech roll or backdash.
So, how does the b2,1,2 and b2,1,2,d2+4 nerfs affect her?? Basically up-close spec ops is near a variationless Cassie, so she relies on high cancel advantage strings with pushback to start her pressure/guessing game.
At this point we should make an assumption: the changes already done are here to stay, and developers are not going to roll back neither the flip nor the stick combo nerfs. So we have to think a variation specific way to solve this problems.
So far I came up with two possibilities:
A) Make "American Way" special high (to hit crouch blocking opponents) that way she can have hitconfirmables 50/50 with a gap in the middle, therefore she can spend the bar used on ex-flip on rockets.
B) Lower the negative values on Rocket's "recovery" so if its canceled out of b2,1,2,d2+4 it can be blown on read by fast reversals but not by all pokes on reaction.
Let me introduce the numbers:
Rocket(mid)----Startup:75--Active:6----Recovery: (-29)
Rocket(close)--Startup:48--Active:6----Recovery: (-29)
Ex-Rocket------Startup:60--Active:107--Recovery: (-127)
For normal Rocket the amount of frames needed to start are Rocket's (close) "Startup+Active+Recovery" this is 25 frames before it can't be interrupted.
The time needed for Cassie to recover (be able to block again) is Rocket's (mid) "Startup+Active+Recovery", this is 52 frames.
The time needed for the rocket to hit the ground is 75 frames (Rocket's (mid) Startup)
For Ex-Rocket the data given by the game is not very clear, but with some tests I have found this:
The amount of frames before it can't be interrupted are 31
The frames needed for Cassie to recover are 37
The frames before the rocket hits your enemy are 60 (Ex-Rocket Startup)
What we can see out of this numbers is that the "recovery" stat listed in the frame data is directly related with the real startup of rockets and the real recovery of the character, the higher absolute value it has (the more negative it is) the faster rocket will become active and Cassie will recover.
Pre-patch cancel advantage on block of b2,1,2 and b2,1,2,d2+4 were 18 and 20 frames, now are both 12 frames.
That means before last update normal Rocket couldn't be interrupted and Ex-Rocket had a 13 and 11 frames windows for each strings before becoming active, with pushback.
Now, with less pushback, both strings have a 13 frame window to interrupt normal Rocket and a 19 frames windows for Ex-Rocket.
My suggestion is to lower the "Recovery" stat 5 frames for the Rocket (Recovery: -34) and 7 Frames for the Ex-Rocket (Recovery: -134).
This way rocket will need 20 frames to become active and 47 frames before you can block again (instead of 25 and 52)
And Ex-Rocket will need 24 frames to become active, and 30 to block (instead of 31 and 37)
**Lets see how rocket works now, and how it will work with this modifications:
This is a chart with the actual cancel information of her highest cancel advantage strings/normals:
http://imgur.com/Kp6RLHu
"R(Ex-R) start" is the time it takes for rockets to become active by being cancelled out of that string
"R(Ex-R) recovery" is the time it takes to block again (window to be punished)
"R(Ex-R) hit" is the time for the rocket to hit the flor or the enemy
This is the same chart with the proposed changes already implemented:
http://imgur.com/R9M3RTn
A few clarifications:
-After this modification we get almost the same gap between b2 strings and Rockets (normal and Ex) we had pre-patch, this is 12 frames.
-Faster starting time for rockets does NOT imply rocket spaming, The time for the rocket to hit the enemy doesn't change, and cooldown frames can be added to the moves to compensate the 5 and 7 frames for each one.
-The negative "R start" values with the new Recovery values has no meaning at all, because with the exception of s4, normal Rocket couldn't be interrupted before (R start < 7frames).
So why buffing it, you may ask. Because all those strings gives your enemy a free cross-over making Rocket useless, while the pushback on b2 strings forces him to attack from the front or retreat.
-The "Ex-R start" now grants you that rocket will come out of up close strings, has a 12 frames gap to interrupt it from b2 strings, and has windows greater than 6 and lower than 18 to punish any atempt of setups after Ex-Rocket.
If you read this and you agree with the modifications, please reply this thread with an "I Agree" message.
Perhaps if we have enough support from the Cassie comunity, and make enough noise we can make this changes happen.
Also, if you think there's other way to do this, please share it!
@Compbros
@Jer
@Scott The Scot
@buyacushun
I tagged you guys because you're the only Spec Ops playes I know, please tag anyone how could be interested in this.
Thank You!
This is not a thread to whine about the already done changes to the character but a place to suggest realistic ideas to make Spec Ops as viable as her sisters Hollywood and Brawler.
We all know that recent patch affected this variation the most, by taking away the armor of her only defensive option worth spending meter in (ex-flip), and nerfing her best variation specific pressure/mixup tool: b2,1,2 and b2,1,2,d2+4.
First of all brief description of what I understand this variation's meta is:
Spec ops is all about making enough space to cast rockets so you can control the space with guesses/reads. Her strength are Ex-Rocket setups, but they can be interrupted by fast projectiles or armored moves if timed wrong or telegraphed. Midscreen meterles rocket setups work only on reads and are easy to tech roll or backdash.
So, how does the b2,1,2 and b2,1,2,d2+4 nerfs affect her?? Basically up-close spec ops is near a variationless Cassie, so she relies on high cancel advantage strings with pushback to start her pressure/guessing game.
At this point we should make an assumption: the changes already done are here to stay, and developers are not going to roll back neither the flip nor the stick combo nerfs. So we have to think a variation specific way to solve this problems.
So far I came up with two possibilities:
A) Make "American Way" special high (to hit crouch blocking opponents) that way she can have hitconfirmables 50/50 with a gap in the middle, therefore she can spend the bar used on ex-flip on rockets.
B) Lower the negative values on Rocket's "recovery" so if its canceled out of b2,1,2,d2+4 it can be blown on read by fast reversals but not by all pokes on reaction.
Let me introduce the numbers:
Rocket(mid)----Startup:75--Active:6----Recovery: (-29)
Rocket(close)--Startup:48--Active:6----Recovery: (-29)
Ex-Rocket------Startup:60--Active:107--Recovery: (-127)
For normal Rocket the amount of frames needed to start are Rocket's (close) "Startup+Active+Recovery" this is 25 frames before it can't be interrupted.
The time needed for Cassie to recover (be able to block again) is Rocket's (mid) "Startup+Active+Recovery", this is 52 frames.
The time needed for the rocket to hit the ground is 75 frames (Rocket's (mid) Startup)
For Ex-Rocket the data given by the game is not very clear, but with some tests I have found this:
The amount of frames before it can't be interrupted are 31
The frames needed for Cassie to recover are 37
The frames before the rocket hits your enemy are 60 (Ex-Rocket Startup)
What we can see out of this numbers is that the "recovery" stat listed in the frame data is directly related with the real startup of rockets and the real recovery of the character, the higher absolute value it has (the more negative it is) the faster rocket will become active and Cassie will recover.
Pre-patch cancel advantage on block of b2,1,2 and b2,1,2,d2+4 were 18 and 20 frames, now are both 12 frames.
That means before last update normal Rocket couldn't be interrupted and Ex-Rocket had a 13 and 11 frames windows for each strings before becoming active, with pushback.
Now, with less pushback, both strings have a 13 frame window to interrupt normal Rocket and a 19 frames windows for Ex-Rocket.
My suggestion is to lower the "Recovery" stat 5 frames for the Rocket (Recovery: -34) and 7 Frames for the Ex-Rocket (Recovery: -134).
This way rocket will need 20 frames to become active and 47 frames before you can block again (instead of 25 and 52)
And Ex-Rocket will need 24 frames to become active, and 30 to block (instead of 31 and 37)
**Lets see how rocket works now, and how it will work with this modifications:
This is a chart with the actual cancel information of her highest cancel advantage strings/normals:
http://imgur.com/Kp6RLHu
"R(Ex-R) start" is the time it takes for rockets to become active by being cancelled out of that string
"R(Ex-R) recovery" is the time it takes to block again (window to be punished)
"R(Ex-R) hit" is the time for the rocket to hit the flor or the enemy
This is the same chart with the proposed changes already implemented:
http://imgur.com/R9M3RTn
A few clarifications:
-After this modification we get almost the same gap between b2 strings and Rockets (normal and Ex) we had pre-patch, this is 12 frames.
-Faster starting time for rockets does NOT imply rocket spaming, The time for the rocket to hit the enemy doesn't change, and cooldown frames can be added to the moves to compensate the 5 and 7 frames for each one.
-The negative "R start" values with the new Recovery values has no meaning at all, because with the exception of s4, normal Rocket couldn't be interrupted before (R start < 7frames).
So why buffing it, you may ask. Because all those strings gives your enemy a free cross-over making Rocket useless, while the pushback on b2 strings forces him to attack from the front or retreat.
-The "Ex-R start" now grants you that rocket will come out of up close strings, has a 12 frames gap to interrupt it from b2 strings, and has windows greater than 6 and lower than 18 to punish any atempt of setups after Ex-Rocket.
If you read this and you agree with the modifications, please reply this thread with an "I Agree" message.
Perhaps if we have enough support from the Cassie comunity, and make enough noise we can make this changes happen.
Also, if you think there's other way to do this, please share it!
@Compbros
@Jer
@Scott The Scot
@buyacushun
I tagged you guys because you're the only Spec Ops playes I know, please tag anyone how could be interested in this.
Thank You!
