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Rambling about the state of Scorpion

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I really love what NRS did with him in this game, and I think aesthetically and GENERALLY gameplay wise, he's sick. I like the fact he's more of a samurai than a ninja in this game honestly.

However, competitively, I just think this character lacks a lot of things. I'm really tired of this NRS shit where we have top tiers who are super well rounded and have the best versions of everything, and than we have very narrowly defined characters like Scorpion, who I consider a pure footsie character more or less who are just not good enough at the one thing they do to feel satisfying to play or to feel competitively viable in a serious offline environment.

Basically, my problems with Scorpion are these.

1: Horrible abare (post pushback stationary button) footsies, which you need to have against all the top tiers. I just played a FT10 with Koisy, and you're basically constantly at the mercy of a character like Cetrion where ALL you can do is chip her down with D4's while she staggers you for days because your better buttons all just straight up whiff. He has this issue in a lot of MU's and it becomes super obnoxious. Scorpion's traditional whiff punishment is great, but it's pretty irrelevant in a game with fuck neutral wave dashing and the ability to give all your buttons a 25% range curve. He just doesn't get to do it very much. A lot of this characters footsie game against even slower characters like Kotal or Erron consists of throwing out yolo S4's buffered into tele when you smell the blood in the water of a f4 from either character.

2: Lack of mids. At the top level, everyone straight up says if you don't have a 9-11f mid you don't have any mids. I don't think he needs a super hit confirmable high damage mid, but B2 being safe and 10F would be nice at least. He needs SOME KIND of get off me option. On top of this, ALL of his mids carry degrees of risk. B1 is -16 if flawless blocked, it happens enough on accident and I'm now running into people who are getting the punish even on accident. F34, you're risking a flawless block gap for 3% if the second hit connects on the stagger, f32 is punishable no matter what, b2 is punishable no matter what unless it's Reborn. I fail to see where anything about this characters design warrants all these risky mids in the face of characters like Liu, Jacqui, Jax etc. This character's pressure comes from all highs, and that's really fucking obnoxious to work around. Not to mention that, if you're too far away to jail after a d1 or d3 on hit which happens often, you're more than likely getting flawless block punished on your mids. This issue has become all the more apparent since I started playing Nightwolf since he came out. Yeah, b34 is stubby, but it's still a 10f hit confirmable full combo mid that I can panic mash that makes opponents respect me. Scorpion just can't do this.

3: Inability to secure damage on breakaways. Scorpion not being able to D2 or fatal blow people out of teleport is really fucking obnoxious. I know some other characters have this issue with their launcher, and I think it's bullshit in those cases too. I feel like this should be a universal thing. Once again, nothing about Scorpion is strong enough to justify this deficiency compared to a lot of other characters.

I feel like, and this is just my take, if you make these super footsie/neutral intensive characters they definitely need to be getting better rewards off what they do. Honestly, I'd be happy with Scorpion if these things were done to him.

1: b141 was special cancelable
2: f423 was universally safe (-7)
3: Teleport launched higher so you can D2 and fatal blow people
4: B2 was 10f startup and safe if committed to. Low damage safe option, high damage high risk option except in Reborn in which case this being safe is irrelevant anyway.
5: EX Burning Spear to be a combo extender again
6: F34 to do like, 3% more damage on the KB. Everyone else gets more damage off footsie string KB's or do not much less with the benefit of the damage being unbreakable. As of right now IMO the only selling point of this KB is that you can always combo it into fatal blow no matter what. It just feels super niche in it's use.

I just feel like he's not a diverse character in a game full of characters who can do everything. I'd take all of this over even nerfing more things about him.

1: Spear is actually -66 point blank and scales accordingly to distance.
2: Reborn tele far cancel costs 2 defense bars

I'm definitely in favor of making his fuck neutral aspects even worse to make his actual footsie tools better and giving him more combo opportunities. That's kinda where I sit with this character.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
...but scorpion is still REALLY good. Good staggers, good KBs, good footsies, good buttons, great damage, and a LAUNCHING TELEPORT. The teleport nerf did nothing to him at all if you already knew how to use him correctly.

You probably just need to level up.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
...but scorpion is still REALLY good. Good staggers, good KBs, good footsies, good buttons, great damage, and a LAUNCHING TELEPORT. The teleport nerf did nothing to him at all if you already knew how to use him correctly.

You probably just need to level up.
Do you actually think his buttons and staggers are on par with Liu, Johnny, Sonya, Geras, Seeing Double Noob, Cetrion etc?

I feel like you didn't actually read the post and just saw that I didn't think he was top 1 and react responded. He's good at a kind of footsies this game doesn't favor. He has worse KB's than the whole top 10. He has the worst mids out of the entire top 15 save Sub Zero (assuming you don't agree with Sonic that he's bottom 4, where he legit said he's a shit character compared to the rest of the roster). I never said the teleport nerf like, HURT him, but it being a mid definitely band aided his problems which I was already pointing out before the nerf.
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
Why do you consider him more samurai than ninja?

I think scorpion is a finished character. You’re worried about 4 or 5 variations, I’m worried about all of them lol. I still have fun though, it’s challenging.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Why do you consider him more samurai than ninja?

I think scorpion is a finished character. You’re worried about 4 or 5 variations, I’m worried about all of them lol. I still have fun though, it’s challenging.
Compared to Injustice 2 I disagree. He's very shallow, linear and lacks meta defining tools. Now it's fine for him to be linear, but I don't think he's good enough at what he's linear at in a game full of jack of all trades gods.
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
Compared to Injustice 2 I disagree. He's very shallow, linear and lacks meta defining tools. Now it's fine for him to be linear, but I don't think he's good enough at what he's linear at in a game full of jack of all trades gods.
I haven’t played injustice but every character is shallow, that’s the game design. Scorpion is still annoying and doesn’t need any buffs or nerfs imo.

You are basically saying that being the bottom of a high tier isn’t good enough for you lol. Welcome to the club I guess. I know how you feel, my character doesn’t even have scorpion tools.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I haven’t played injustice but every character is shallow, that’s the game design. Scorpion is still annoying and doesn’t need any buffs or nerfs imo.

You are basically saying that being the bottom of a high tier isn’t good enough for you lol. Welcome to the club I guess. I know how you feel, my character doesn’t even have scorpion tools.
Who do you play?
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
The only bad characters based on legit frame data is kano and kung lao. If you dont play them then youre completely fine. This is nonsense.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Shao kahn
Shao Khan has

A hit confirmable 10f high damage mid.

Very high damage KB's.

Exceptional movement.

Exceptional space control due to button range+wave dashing

Great pressure due to S1, 44 etc

Great jump ins

Consistently high damage off every button

Comeback factor damage

He plays this game more fundamentally well than Scorpion does.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
The only bad characters based on legit frame data is kano and kung lao. If you dont play them then youre completely fine. This is nonsense.
Lao is bad yet everyone has him top 15 minimum because he plays MK11 better than Scorpion.
 

LionHeart V1

You will feel deaths cold embrace
Scorpions is still really good. In fact he should be nerfed again. Straight out of the game this time.

I’m baffled as to why scorpion can keep his teleport in both variations which leads to a combo as opposed to raiden who has to lose his and doesn’t lead to combo. NRS logic.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Scorpions is still really good. In fact he should be nerfed again. Straight out of the game this time.

I’m baffled as to why scorpion can keep his teleport in both variations which leads to a combo as opposed to raiden who has to lose his and doesn’t lead to combo. NRS logic.
God forbid characters be unique from each other.
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
Shao Khan has

A hit confirmable 10f high damage mid.

Very high damage KB's.

Exceptional movement.

Exceptional space control due to button range+wave dashing

Great pressure due to S1, 44 etc

Great jump ins

Consistently high damage off every button

Comeback factor damage

He plays this game more fundamentally well than Scorpion does.
Clearly scorpion is outclassed. My apologies.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
@Chernyy Volk IM NOT AN NPC SO I DONT DICKRIDE ANYBODIES OPINION

I literally had a whole session talking to PL who proved on stream that kung lao is trash. Its doesnt matter how many people say something, its doesnt beat factual info. Idk wtf is wrong with you guys and this dickriding shit but its out of control to the point you guys are contradicting yourselves nonstop. Its like when i told people liu kang was top tier and the whole site shitted on me. Now look...
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
@Chernyy Volk IM NOT AN NPC SO I DONT DICKRIDE ANYBODIES OPINION

I literally had a whole session talking to PL who proved on stream that kung lao is trash. Its doesnt matter how many people say something, its doesnt beat factual info. Idk wtf is wrong with you guys and this dickriding shit but its out of control to the point you guys are contradicting yourselves nonstop. Its like when i told people liu kang was top tier and the whole site shitted on me. Now look...
Kung Lao sucks in an environment where you think the game literally plays out like practice mode where there's no pressure, mind games etc to worry about. PL is an idiot when it comes to Lao. He downplayed that character when he had the triple EX hat loop in MKX. He literally plays MK11 by by the meta. Oki throw/auto shimmy/mid mix into high damage.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
OK dude ive had enough of online scrubs trying to tell me shit im just blocking all of you.
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
If you disagree don't be snarky about it. Tell me how I'm wrong. Yovideogamez made a top 8 at a Pro Komp event using almost all Shao Khan.
Not snark, everything you say is true but I play shao and it’s not that easy. I’m not videogamezYo. I know he won 4th, he’s my favorite player because he plays shao lol. He’s the only one that can do it, no bullshit. And even he has to go to Jax sometimes.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Not snark, everything you say is true but I play shao and it’s not that easy. I’m not videogamezYo. I know he won 4th, he’s my favorite player because he plays shao lol. He’s the only one that can do it, no bullshit. And even he has to go to Jax sometimes.
Yeah I'm just saying like, you have to look at what the games meta is and who has what. As of right now Shao Khan has gotten higher placings than Scorpion across the Pro Komp as far as I'm aware except for NA West with Phoenix and Reborn online is actually a fuck fest. You can't really measure that variations viability off of online because offline you can smack every teleport he does clean.