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Rain Matchup Discussion: Who do you struggle/do well against?

STB Bodam

"Game... Blouses."
As someone who has only had very limited experience against the majority of the roster (aside from Liu Kang and Scorpion, of course :oops:), I'd love to hear from other Rain mains on some characters they do well or just flat-out struggle against. Obviously with "Kustom" Variations, the general terms we usually use are kind of blurred since each setup on a given character can vary from player to player, but even with that said, there has to be a ton of overlap that most of us have seen and I'd like to explore that in hopes of developing a better general idea of how to attack each member of the roster.

I'd gladly update this post with generalized advice for each matchup as time goes on.
 

Zviko

Noob
I struggle the most against mashers with pushback moves and/or longer reaching pokes(Jax, Geras, Johnny,...). They can mash without taking any real risk. Our pokes don't reach, B2 doesn't reach, B1 is already too slow most of the time. You can't even dash back and whiff punish with one of your longer ranged attacks like F2, F3 or F4 because you will get BF specials for all of them. Hop kick works sometimes but it's unsafe.
 
Well I play a rush down rain with hydroboost, geyser palm, and edenian force. The hardest matchup for me is against Fujin because he shut downs rain's movement with his far reaching buttons that he can easily convert off of into around 28 percent. Dealing with backdash into b1 is also really rough. The matchup really feels like you can't press any buttons out of fear of getting hit by something. I have been experimenting with dive kick rain to deal with this matchup and I think its a little bit better since you can get in a bit easier.

Rain's buttons that have range don't lead to much which I think is his main weakness. Only has two hit confirmable string which start from a stubby mid and a jab. Hydroboost doesn't really solve this issue due to its hitbox issues when you special cancel from f2 and max range b1/b3. So against spacing characters like noob saibot and johnny I think rain struggles a bit in but none are as bad as the fujin matchup.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Fujin is a bad one b2 and being able to dash out of all of rains good normal checks.

I hate mileena and other characters who’s neutral is heavy reliant on good fast projectiles.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I feel like Rain players struggle against Sindel. I’ve only lost to a rain player about 3 times.
Yeah f4 checks his entire gameplan hard not to mention his anti airs are subpar. So hes kinda stuck on approach as he has to get around f4 neutralising his strongest asset (movement and whiff punishing). I just walk my way in vs screams and low projectile to get f4’d or jumped on when close.
 
I struggle the most against mashers with pushback moves and/or longer reaching pokes(Jax, Geras, Johnny,...). They can mash without taking any real risk. Our pokes don't reach, B2 doesn't reach, B1 is already too slow most of the time. You can't even dash back and whiff punish with one of your longer ranged attacks like F2, F3 or F4 because you will get BF specials for all of them. Hop kick works sometimes but it's unsafe.
Oh my god i get stuck vs this shit too. I know pokes got buffed so you SHOULD be able to jail into a standing string but I constantly find myself at like the max range of my poke (especially d3) vs mashers and they mash or (UGH) uppercut right threw my "supposed" turn. Gotta walk back and time the F2 just right but if that too is max range you get no combo and if you commit for the KB it's a big gamble.

I guess enhanced katar toss might be the play here but thats not exactly a ton of damage...
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Rain's MU chart in the current game state, imo:

5-5 Shang
5-5 Shao Kahn
5-5 Frost
5-5 Nightwolf
4-6 Joker
4-6 Johnny
5-5 Sonya
5-5 Cassie
5-5 Jax
4-6 Spawn
5-5 Scorpion
4-6 Sub Zero
4-6 Noob Saibot
5-5 Baraka
4-6 Raiden
4-6 Jacqui
4-6 Kano
4-6 Kabal
5-5 Liu Kang
5-5 Kitana
5-5 Kung Lao
4-6 Jade
5-5 Robocop
5-5 Skarlet
4-6 Erron Black
5-5 D'vorah
4-6 Kotal Kahn
5-5 Sheeva
5-5 Rambo
4-6 Terminator
4-6 Geras
4-6 Kollector
5-5 Sindel
5-5 Mileena
5-5 Cetrion
4-6 Fujin

16 Losing
18 Even
0 Winning
 

Wigy

There it is...
Cetrion 5-5?

She can mash low pokes under rains mids alongside just being better. No way this is a 5-5 currently
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Cetrion 5-5?

She can mash low pokes under rains mids alongside just being better. No way this is a 5-5 currently
We can use F3 to hop over her d4 amongst other options such as F4, sweep, amp Katar, etc. Rain also many answers to check her after tornado and wall, the best being Tidal wave and his portal which will eat the wall allowing for a whiff punish of F21+3KB. Rain's movement let's him quickly get in on her zoning and teleport if she tries to run away. The damage is in our favor as well. The main thing you have to be careful about is her teleport when throwing a Katar toss and jumping. Imo, jumping vs Cetrion is very dangerous because Rain's jump ins are pretty bad.
 
Rift and geyser palm work pretty well in the sindel MU, no....?? I’ve barely tested this so yeah. And like zone her out with katar toss...? I struggle with her too tho. Just throwin ideas out here
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Rift and geyser palm work pretty well in the sindel MU, no....?? I’ve barely tested this so yeah. And like zone her out with katar toss...? I struggle with her too tho. Just throwin ideas out here
yes, and yes. You can also use Hydroplane to escape F21u2's gap without the flawless block mindgame.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
@RoboCop thanks a lot for your valuable help. i'll be following this page for any tips.
I don't see this MU being very good for Rain. I haven't personally played this MU but I do play both characters to some degree. I'd say try to stick as close to Kotal as possible and exploit the fact that his mids and pokes are (relatively) slow. He still has tic throws and his D3/D4 are great but imo once you get into the mid range or full screen Kotal has the advantage. His normals are so huge and some with disjointed hit boxes and receded hurt boxes that make them hard to whiff punish, and they all lead to a lot more damage than Rain can get. From full screen he can put up sunlight and besides argus plunge amp or the KB idk what Rain has that can even make it so he doesn't heal more damage than he takes. He can also parry your katars while buffing his own damage and even though you can duck disc or evaporate one mistake can you eat a KB that does the same damage as a regular Rain combo.

EDIT: A bit more info on sunlight - always try to punish it if they do it in the neutral. It heals 105 over 10s so your aim is to do more than 105 to negate the effects.
Here's DJT VS Aztec (probably the best Rain player VS probably the best Kotal player):
Hope this helps :)
 
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Immortal

Blind justice....
I already answered that on your profile wall but lets get more into it.

I play a lot of (casual) Kotal coz that's the only character in this game i semi like (less than semi thou). Rain is one of the easiest MUs for Kotal. You can't zone Kotal with Rain coz of parry and sun, there is no way you gonna outdamage the sun. You can try to bait him into doing sun when youre near the end of the screen but not quite there, you should be able to dash in and punish but most decent Kotal players wont do it unless they know you cant get there in time or you're low on health that even trading will do it for them.

There is no playing midscreen game vs Kotal, F2 and B2 just cover all the options and amp disc on block leaves Kotal (at -1 on block so it's nothing) in a perfect spot to do b2,2 and punish you for trying to punish him. So yes you should try to play up close, the problem with this is obviously cmg. He can do it of canceling d1; 1 or 1,2 the last two are quite important coz it's a 3 way mix, he can do 1 into cmg, 1,2 into cmg, 1,2,2 (there is a FBlock gap here but again it's a guess - if he even goes for 2 or not) and that's +1 on block with gaint pushback (ideal for him) or if he thinks you gonna try to jump out of cmg he can just do 1,2, cut which will lead into full combo (thou if he get it wrong and you block it - it's full combo punishable). If you get hit - you can breakaway just before the cmg comes as it has billion frames of recovery so you can punish him for it (thou most Kotals just stop before the cmg if you have 2 bars of defensive meter coz the extra dmg from finishing with cmg isnt worth it).

With Rain Kotal like pretty much any character can take a lot of chances, coz Rain dmg is laughable while if you get hit by Kotal which always end in cmg it starts from 330 and goes up (quickly) from there. Kotal has some not great MUs but Rain isn't one of them.

@up Also Aztec isn't the best Kotal player, Turk (alias Turkey) is by a mile. I advice you to watch Aquamans Kotal only tournament on YT or Twitch where they both played.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
He can do it of canceling d1
D1~command grab is fake. You can trade with the command grab with 8f pokes so I imagine a 7f D1 like Rain's can interrupt it.

Also Aztec isn't the best Kotal player, Turk (alias Turkey) is by a mile. I advice you to watch Aquamans Kotal only tournament on YT or Twitch where they both played
Good to know thanks
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
D1~command grab is fake. You can trade with the command grab with 8f pokes so I imagine a 7f D1 like Rain's can interrupt it.
There is a 7 frame gap, Kotal d1 is 7 frames and has cancel window of 7 frames and cmg has 14 startup frames, so at best it will trade with Rain d1 which is 7 frames - if you're frame perfect. Are you sure about the 8f? Doesn't seems like it. Anyway, in the middle of the game and if he is not going for it like all the time... yeah i dont see it but you're right it is possible. Also you're guessing here with the timing coz instead of poke back cancel into cmg he can just do cmg straight away.

There is one more thing i forgot yesterday which is also important if you get hit by Kotals D4, he can cancel it into unbreakable and it is guaranteed.

Don't get me wrong you can win with any character vs any character if you outplay your oponent but going just by tools and options Kotal vs Rain is quite heavily in Kotal fav.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
There is a 7 frame gap, Kotal d1 is 7 frames and has cancel window of 7 frames and cmg has 14 startup frames, so at best it will trade with Rain d1 which is 7 frames - if you're frame perfect. Are you sure about the 8f? Doesn't seems like it. Anyway, in the middle of the game and if he is not going for it like all the time... yeah i dont see it but you're right it is possible. Also you're guessing here with the timing coz instead of poke back cancel into cmg he can just do cmg straight away.

There is one more thing i forgot yesterday which is also important if you get hit by Kotals D4, he can cancel it into unbreakable and it is guaranteed.

Don't get me wrong you can win with any character vs any character if you outplay your oponent but going just by tools and options Kotal vs Rain is quite heavily in Kotal fav.
Kotal's D1 is 7f but it actually hits on frame 2. So it's technically 8f. But regardless I agree it's in Kotal's favour.
 

JGillette

My thirst for knowledge cannot be quenched
I don't see this MU being very good for Rain. I haven't personally played this MU but I do play both characters to some degree. I'd say try to stick as close to Kotal as possible and exploit the fact that his mids and pokes are (relatively) slow. He still has tic throws and his D3/D4 are great but imo once you get into the mid range or full screen Kotal has the advantage. His normals are so huge and some with disjointed hit boxes and receded hurt boxes that make them hard to whiff punish, and they all lead to a lot more damage than Rain can get. From full screen he can put up sunlight and besides argus plunge amp or the KB idk what Rain has that can even make it so he doesn't heal more damage than he takes. He can also parry your katars while buffing his own damage and even though you can duck disc or evaporate one mistake can you eat a KB that does the same damage as a regular Rain combo.

EDIT: A bit more info on sunlight - always try to punish it if they do it in the neutral. It heals 105 over 10s so your aim is to do more than 105 to negate the effects.
Here's DJT VS Aztec (probably the best Rain player VS probably the best Kotal player):
Hope this helps :)
I already answered that on your profile wall but lets get more into it.

I play a lot of (casual) Kotal coz that's the only character in this game i semi like (less than semi thou). Rain is one of the easiest MUs for Kotal. You can't zone Kotal with Rain coz of parry and sun, there is no way you gonna outdamage the sun. You can try to bait him into doing sun when youre near the end of the screen but not quite there, you should be able to dash in and punish but most decent Kotal players wont do it unless they know you cant get there in time or you're low on health that even trading will do it for them.

There is no playing midscreen game vs Kotal, F2 and B2 just cover all the options and amp disc on block leaves Kotal (at -1 on block so it's nothing) in a perfect spot to do b2,2 and punish you for trying to punish him. So yes you should try to play up close, the problem with this is obviously cmg. He can do it of canceling d1; 1 or 1,2 the last two are quite important coz it's a 3 way mix, he can do 1 into cmg, 1,2 into cmg, 1,2,2 (there is a FBlock gap here but again it's a guess - if he even goes for 2 or not) and that's +1 on block with gaint pushback (ideal for him) or if he thinks you gonna try to jump out of cmg he can just do 1,2, cut which will lead into full combo (thou if he get it wrong and you block it - it's full combo punishable). If you get hit - you can breakaway just before the cmg comes as it has billion frames of recovery so you can punish him for it (thou most Kotals just stop before the cmg if you have 2 bars of defensive meter coz the extra dmg from finishing with cmg isnt worth it).

With Rain Kotal like pretty much any character can take a lot of chances, coz Rain dmg is laughable while if you get hit by Kotal which always end in cmg it starts from 330 and goes up (quickly) from there. Kotal has some not great MUs but Rain isn't one of them.

@up Also Aztec isn't the best Kotal player, Turk (alias Turkey) is by a mile. I advice you to watch Aquamans Kotal only tournament on YT or Twitch where they both played.
@Immortal thank you very much once again. i was already watching DJT's videos and I realized that he struggles against Kotal as well. I tried to use different kustom moves to see if i am doing something wrong or not. but yes this is probably the only matchup i cant get through with rain.

@Mandolore1123 thank you very much for your time and valuable help :)
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
@Immortal thank you very much once again. i was already watching DJT's videos and I realized that he struggles against Kotal as well. I tried to use different kustom moves to see if i am doing something wrong or not. but yes this is probably the only matchup i cant get through with rain.

@Mandolore1123 thank you very much for your time and valuable help :)
Just because it's a hard MU doesn't mean it's unwinnable. Maybe try to find a friend who plays Kotal and grind it out. Even if it's a bad MU experience goes a long way in helping you learn how you should deal with it and increasing your chance of winning against randoms
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Honestly it's a nightmare because it's very momentum based. You can't let Kotal touch you, and you have to manage your meter very well.
@JGillette This is probably where you want to seek help with the Kotal MU. Anyone here able to offer any insights? @DarksydeDash
I hate this MU because its very momentum based like Noob Saibot, in the sense that Kotal does so much damage, that one touch is all it takes. Kotal can then just sit in the sun (especially in the corner). Against Aztec, he uses the kat against me and this especially means you can't run away all game, but the disgusting thing is that you can never throw a Katar at Kotal without meter. He can duck it, and either use F2 combined with good wave dashing to full combo punish.


I also want to mention that Kotal's cmd grab will straight up punish you for trying to water parry, and his d3 will low profile all of Rain's mids except d3, much like Cetrion's.

What you can do:

Check him after MB disk with AMP Katar.

Kotal doesn't have a fast mid so you can always try to check him with a d1 or d3 and his only real threat is poking you back. You can just block that, throw or swing at him again.

Know that Kotal's F2 is the button he's looking for. Practice flawless blocking it in neutral and after Rain's strings with Pushback like b212 so you punish him for trying to get his turn back. Again, meter management is key.

IF you do get a life lead, he'll most likely try to set up the sun and hide behind it. With good movement, you can get in on him quickly and round house kick him right out of the sun.
 
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