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Match-Up Discussion - Raiden Raiden Match-ups Thread

Jb879212

40 Percent Punish
Funny thing is, it doesn't feel like thunder god has any real disadvantage MUs
I don't think he does either. The offensive presence is so prevalent against most of the cast he doesn't really need the other variations. This mostly because his normals in TG are so godlike (pun intended) that the neutral game/footsies game is almost completely dominated by him as long as there is some brains behind the controller and especially if the opponent doesn't know frame data.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I don't feel like MoS is better against mobile characters. You have to dedicate like 100% of your time if you want no downtime of your traps, so you don't really use them the way Grandmaster uses his. Having to place them though actually makes you more vulnerable to zoning attempts or simply blowing you up for that - probably with that very teleport. Holding one orb against them in theory works just as well as it does against anyone else, maybe even less when you can't cover both your sides equally when pushbacks are considered.
 

kudaytaa34

I'm not tier whoring guys i promise
Well I live in Philadelphia so I'm sure there's some type of MK scene out here. Off the top of my head I can only think of Summer Jam. Should I enter something like that to get offline experience or should I try to find another place to practice before attempting a major?
You should definitely take any opportunity to play offline whether its a major or not, you get a feel for what you can truly punish, react, etc. Plus you'll get to meet a lot of people which furthers your opportunity to play offline. I say just do it, you definitely will not regret it :)
 
Cool thats exactly what I was looking for. I think people are catching on to raidens overhead starter in the corner so the b32 hold seems to have some strong advantages if it stuffs a lot of ex armor wakeup attacks as well. If they dont ex wakeup it still adds good presure and if they block high can still get good damage in the corner with it when it connects.

Now if I can just figure out how to stop erron blacks high low mixups and slide. That overhead low string gives him so many options and I tend to block low out of habit for some reason. Got destroyed numerous times by a guy who knew outlaw erron black really well last night. Lost 14 games in a row I believe it was. Anytime I got close to him it was high low sand to the face then huge damage combo LOL. The corner game he had was devastating. He had some sort of standing reset combo he kept doing that I couldnt get out of. I did better playing keep away and trying to zone him and build meter. After I had some meter that was the only way I was able to initiate good damage. It was a good learning experience on the Raiden/Erron Black MU for sure.
I'd actually suggest you never lose 14 in a row, ever.

And what I mean by that is, by loss 5 or so you should have something to work on in practice mode vs that character. Graciously thank your opponent for the games and hit up training mode.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I'd actually suggest you never lose 14 in a row, ever.

And what I mean by that is, by loss 5 or so you should have something to work on in practice mode vs that character. Graciously thank your opponent for the games and hit up training mode.
Hmm I'd disagree with that. Last night I lost 23 in a row to B W1zz, but I gotta tell you, I didn't really start giving it my best till about match #15 or so. And I learned more in that last 7-8 matches than the last two weeks combined. I got pwned, but I truly felt like I leveled up after that. Right after, I challenged somebody else to a match and mopped the floor with them and felt my Raiden had definitely improved.

Btw, B W1zz does a marvelous job of utilizing Displacer and Master of Storms. Especially with that latter variation, it feels like you are constantly getting caught in traps and you gotta watch your back (and front) at all times. I would highly recommend playing him online if you get the chance. I wonder why he isn't posting here yet.
 
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I'd actually suggest you never lose 14 in a row, ever.

And what I mean by that is, by loss 5 or so you should have something to work on in practice mode vs that character. Graciously thank your opponent for the games and hit up training mode.
If that works for you, cool, but for me I don't mind losing 100 times in a row as long as each round im improving or learning (well, I do mind, but I learn better in game than practice)
 
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SirRaven

Teleport tickle fail
I wonder he isn't posting here yet.
I was wondering that too. I thought he'd be one of the first ones posting all his findings. I'd really like to see his work with displacer and MOS. I'm 100% displacer and trying to find all the nooks and crannies of the style. Everyone kind of gave up on Raiden with TG when they discovered the fireworks as a tool to make what was negative become safe.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I was wondering that too. I thought he'd be one of the first ones posting all his findings. I'd really like to see his work with displacer and MOS. I'm 100% displacer and trying to find all the nooks and crannies of the style. Everyone kind of gave up on Raiden with TG when they discovered the fireworks as a tool to make what was negative become safe.
He's got a Twitch channel and is playing constantly. You can probably find it and watch him in action.
 

.Solo.

Noob
I've been having serious trouble beating Quan Chi Summoner Variation, anyone know what to do? he just keeps using that overhead spell and mixing up, resulting in a huge fucking vortex.
 

mrtom

Noob
I've been having serious trouble beating Quan Chi Summoner Variation, anyone know what to do? he just keeps using that overhead spell and mixing up, resulting in a huge fucking vortex.
Same here but if you get him in the corner he can't really escape unless he blocks something very unsafe, like b2 or jumps between 1122. F12 is essential in this match, get close and keep pressuring with it and mixing up when it hits. If you're stuck in his vortex it is possible to armor out right after the reset, sometimes the bat + whatever move he's doing hit at the same and will break armor but anything you do to escape is basically a gamble. From the Quan's I've played combos usually end like this- trance, bat, d3 reset then the guessing game (low bat+overhead, overhead xx ex rune + bat, etc..) You want to try to armor after the d3 or right after you block whatever hits you first, assuming you guessed correctly and actually blocked...

You've got pressure him relentlessly. If you land any move/poke, you follow it up immediately or run up and f12, don't give him a chance to breath. Much easier said than done of course since quan needs one combo into trance to start his vortex. Plus his runes can make getting in tricky, if he's abusing runes just ex bf3 to punish and get in.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Has anyone thought of doing EX-Shocker against cornered opponents that tend to teleport a lot to get away, such as Takeda or Scorpion? The point is that the inputs for Ex-Shocker and Ex-Vicinity Blast are mirrors of each other, meaning you do one input, but two possible moves might come out depending on whether the opponent teleports or not. I saw Dizzy doing this against Raptor at Combo Breaker and it worked really well. I don't know if it's a legit Option Select, but it seems like a good tactic.
 
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BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
So are guys actually counterpicking w variations now? Although thunder god has the best mixup potential, I just feel it isn't the way too go in some MUs. I feel like MoS does better vs Cassie, Jax and Kit. Still looking into lao and some other characters as well. I don't really know if the problems these characters present are more specific to me or if other Raidens feel this way as well.
 
So are guys actually counterpicking w variations now? Although thunder god has the best mixup potential, I just feel it isn't the way too go in some MUs. I feel like MoS does better vs Cassie, Jax and Kit. Still looking into lao and some other characters as well. I don't really know if the problems these characters present are more specific to me or if other Raidens feel this way as well.
I don't usually struggle with the rushdown characters. With all of raidens armor I think he can counter pressure very well. He's got armor for every situation. Plus he builds meter so quick he almost always has it.

I might go to Displacer for some zoners though. For some reason I can't get past LK's damn low/high fireball. A nice 32% ex tele punish is much more appealing than wasting a bar on EX superman in Thunder God. I actually think EX tele is the best EX move he's got in any variation

I am interested to see if any one has some real matchup numbers. I'm not sure if Raiden really loses to anyone still, even though he's free to down pokes. Does anyone else think Raiden has any 4/6's ?
 
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BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
I don't usually struggle with the rushdown characters. With all of raidens armor I think he can counter pressure very well. He's got armor for every situation. Plus he builds meter so quick he almost always has it.

I might go to Displacer for some zoners though. For some reason I can't get past LK's damn low/high fireball. A nice 32% ex tele punish is much more appealing than wasting a bar on EX superman in Thunder God. I actually think EX tele is the best EX move he's got in any variation

I am interested to see if any one has some real matchup numbers. I'm not sure if Raiden really loses to anyone still, even though he's free to down pokes. Does anyone else think Raiden has any 4/6's ?
Cassie, because he has to open her up or he gets punished. He has no safe option at any time.
 
I don't usually struggle with the rushdown characters. With all of raidens armor I think he can counter pressure very well. He's got armor for every situation. Plus he builds meter so quick he almost always has it.

I might go to Displacer for some zoners though. For some reason I can't get past LK's damn low/high fireball. A nice 32% ex tele punish is much more appealing than wasting a bar on EX superman in Thunder God. I actually think EX tele is the best EX move he's got in any variation

I am interested to see if any one has some real matchup numbers. I'm not sure if Raiden really loses to anyone still, even though he's free to down pokes. Does anyone else think Raiden has any 4/6's ?
KL and Scorp felt like 4-6 but patch changed that, Ermac and Johnny cages give me issues but that could be my skill lacking in those MUs
 

skrone

cold blooded
disclaimer: this was found offline, the online timing is probably super nuts. I played a good 5 hour long set with a friend of mine who has a really strong marksman erron black and found that whenever he canceled into command grab, I could let go of block in a neutral duck and it would whiff, this is also a gap where you can d1, and this also works against that stupid gun golf club swing move he has. DO NOT try to back dash, the command grab has a forward moving hitbox, and the dash is not quick enough to escape the gun. The timing his tight, but it helps with this matchup ALOT since they don't ever expect you to poke out on block. Also, they usually will go low, or high low high(advancing overhead string), to get in. hope this helps
 
I don't see a thread about match-ups versus various characters so I thought I'd create one, partly for the selfish purpose of getting help with some tough match ups (like Takeda, for me anyway).

Post your hard earned knowledge about how to fight against any and all characters here, such as character/variation specific strategies, weaknesses/strengths, etc. I'll start with whatever little knowledge I've gathered against Takeda, as he is giving me a lot of trouble:

Takeda

One thing I've learned is, when he is away from you, i.e. half screen or further, block Low. That's because his Shurikens and his EX Teleport Punch both hit Low and can be really annoying. Also, I don't know the exact commands for them, but he's got those 2 and 3-hit kick strings that are hard to punish on block. I believe the one that's 2 hits is punishable by 1, 1 and F1, 2, B2, not sure about the 3 hits one though. I played a really good Takeda (Shirai Ryu) last night and he kept canceling it into a NJP and it didn't seem like 1, 1 could punish it. Maybe F1, 2, B2 can?

I was using the Thunder God variation, but I am thinking now Master of Storms might be a better match against him, because of his reliance on teleports, i.e. setting up a trap behind you might be a good way to counter that.

That's all I got right now. Any tips against Takeda?
yea takeda is definitely cheap in the hands of certain players. nothing but down 3's up close and mid screen overhead combos that he can convert to 38% with a bar. i always pick kung jin against takeda i never win with raiden.
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
So I've been having a lot of trouble fighting Liu Kang in general. His Flame Fist variation is really hard to turn the tide against once he starts pressuring me. I am using thunder god. What are you guys were doing against the wall of a thousand fists?
 

Mod

Noob
So I've been having a lot of trouble fighting Liu Kang in general. His Flame Fist variation is really hard to turn the tide against once he starts pressuring me. I am using thunder god. What are you guys were doing against the wall of a thousand fists?
Well with Lui Kang I usually armor through after his windmill punches cause theres a gap between the special move he cancels into and windmill punch. Unless he uses the ex shaolin flame then hes going to get hit. His parry can only work against mids and overheads so if you see him parry you can use a low starter as a punish.
 

Iustinus

Deus Fulminatus
Am I the only one who finds Kotal to be unbearable to fight? Maybe I just haven't figured the character out yet. I recently played some sets against a Sun God player as TG. Whenever we ended up at full screen, I found it very difficult to get past his projectile, which can't be ducked, and if I tried to jump he stuffs any of my air attacks, since his are apparently better. He seems to outpoke me, whenever I approach him. Very frustrating match for me. Any tips?
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
Am I the only one who finds Kotal to be unbearable to fight? Maybe I just haven't figured the character out yet. I recently played some sets against a Sun God player as TG. Whenever we ended up at full screen, I found it very difficult to get past his projectile, which can't be ducked, and if I tried to jump he stuffs any of my air attacks, since his are apparently better. He seems to outpoke me, whenever I approach him. Very frustrating match for me. Any tips?
At the least to get around disks you can ex superman/teleport on reaction
 

Iustinus

Deus Fulminatus
I dont play displacer so no teleporting. And true I can ex superman, but part of the problem is that he seems to give me trouble up close. I dont want to waste the meter unless I can be absolutely sure I'm getting him into the corner with that superman, and from there I'll give him the business. Maybe it's just me, but I find him really hard to approach.