Raiden Match Footage

[Trustful_Whale]

the 4f - 6f difference is huge though. i dropped the game but just from gut feeling i'd guess that raijin isnt top tier but solid now.

I know, that's why I made a point of mentioning it in the line you quoted.

 

[MKF30]

Check Rewind, he was playing Raiden, recently.

Yeah but I think he gave up on Raiden or hardly uses him anymore sadly but understandable. I was wondering for those posting in here daily themselves as well.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I would be delighted if someone other than myself would help with maintaining this thread. If anyone wants to upload their matches here for feedback that’s also welcome.

 

[Black Chapters]

its Raiden

theres nothing to discuss anymore

 

[MKF30]

its Raiden

theres nothing to discuss anymore

Lol true, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I have vids capped I'll be posting under TW soon though.

 

[UnshavenRaven]

I'll be uploading more Raijin and Truth and Light matches from the latest Kombat League this week

 

[Mandolore1123]

its Raiden

theres nothing to discuss anymore

Lol true, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I have vids capped I'll be posting under TW soon though.

If you feel that every MU has been fleshed out and all the tech has been found then by all means stop posting here.

 

[MKF30]

If you feel that every MU has been fleshed out and all the tech has been found then by all means stop posting here.

Nobody said that but tbh there are more players than sonic fox, just saying.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Nobody said that but tbh there are more players than sonic fox, just saying.

What does sonic fox have to do with what I said? You are the one agreeing that there’s no more discussion to be had. If that’s the case then stop posting here because there should be no reason for you to do so.

 

[MKF30]

What does sonic fox have to do with what I said? You are the one agreeing that there’s no more discussion to be had. If that’s the case then stop posting here because there should be no reason for you to do so.

Not what I said I agreed that theres a lack of raiden vids because the other guy said its raiden, meaning nobody uses him compared to other characters because hes lower.

However, I have been using him day one that you should know by now but I'm saying there are other raiden players besides sonic cause that's all I see you posting as if hes the only one using raiden....hes not. I've also posted some vids on here and an old tech fyi.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Not what I said I agreed that theres a lack of raiden vids because the other guy said its raiden, meaning nobody uses him compared to other characters because hes lower.

However, I have been using him day one that you should know by now but I'm saying there are other raiden players besides sonic cause that's all I see you posting as if hes the only one using raiden....hes not. I've also posted some vids on here and an old tech fyi.

Sure man. Let’s forget all the other videos I posted here with Kombat, Patient Impulse, Dalphanate, Pluralmite, etc. Stop waving your day-1 main credentials like it means anything. Learn to look through what I’ve actually posted before you make presumptuous statements, then maybe you’d stop being so wrong all the time.

 

[MKF30]

Sure man. Let’s forget all the other videos I posted here with Kombat, Patient Impulse, Dalphanate, Pluralmite, etc. Stop waving your day-1 main credentials like it means anything. Learn to look through what I’ve actually posted before you make presumptuous statements, then maybe you’d stop being so wrong all the time.

And yet not one video of your own gameplay hmmm. I've posted tons of vids on here. I dont ride others just cause they say some something.

Not one day I've posted tons if you can actually see. Pretty sure I've posted lots of combo vids and actually stayed on topic unlike other people trying to justify raijin as "s" tier I'm not wrong all the time since majority agree with me notnyoux sorry to disappoint you. Were not all sonic shills when it comes to raiden, deal with it. Take your own advice If you read all my posts youd see I've posted combo vids, advice in tons of raiden Topics both old and new.

 

[Mandolore1123]

And yet not one video of your own gameplay hmmm. I've posted tons of vids on here. I dont ride others just cause they say some something.

Not one day I've posted tons if you can actually see. Pretty sure I've posted lots of combo vids and actually stayed on topic unlike other people trying to justify raijin as "s" tier I'm not wrong all the time since majority agree with me notnyoux sorry to disappoint you. Were not all sonic shills when it comes to raiden, deal with it. Take your own advice If you read all my posts youd see I've posted combo vids, advice in tons of raiden Topics both old and new.

Advice? You mean telling new players to do F4~storm cell on block? Combos? You mean two bar combos that are only 4-5% more damaging than regular one bar combos? Combos that you shouldn’t be using because that one offensive bar is worth so much more than a few more points in damage unless it closes out the round?

I’ve never been a sonic shill. Again if you look at my postings you will know that I wrote an entire wall of the xt saying why I disagree with Sonic’s placement of Raiden, but perhaps this is asking too much of you. I don’t post my own gameplay because I’m not a good player. There’s nothing you can learn from me. However, just because I can’t apply high level tools in my gameplay doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I post from players who regularly go to tournaments and achieve results with Raiden. THEY are the players who showcase what Raiden can do in a competitive environment, what tools he has in MUs, what you should be doing in order to win. THEY are the players who have the execution and reactions to apply the high level strategies and tools. Also note that I provide my own analyses in regards to what they do and don’t do in MUs.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Echo (TW) VS Aquaman (Ascension)

Echo got mopped
Few things he did very well though. First thing is his spacing and whiff punishing Kotal’s F2. He also uses the staggers off B1, B3 and F3 well, however, since he didn’t really threaten with FB reversals like PI does, Kotal pokes out of most of his later attempts. Those teleports on wake-ups were also amazing and serve well on a read since you can guarantee a full-combo punish that the opponent can’t break away, and in TW you can always side switch them back into the corner.
One thing I noticed that he didn’t do at all though. B223 was always blocked. B223 is (iirc, Idk if it was changed) a gimmick and there’s no reason to actually block it or even flawless block it because you can D1 between the second and third hit for a full-combo punish (D1, B12~DB2, JI3~BF3 -> ~27%). Kotal has to do other stuff like B22~DF2 (Kahn cut) to get you to respect but Kahn cut is also full combo punishable.

 

[MKF30]

Advice? You mean telling new players to do F4~storm cell on block? Combos? You mean two bar combos that are only 4-5% more damaging than regular one bar combos? Combos that you shouldn’t be using because that one offensive bar is worth so much more than a few more points in damage unless it closes out the round?

I’ve never been a sonic shill. Again if you look at my postings you will know that I wrote an entire wall of the xt saying why I disagree with Sonic’s placement of Raiden, but perhaps this is asking too much of you. I don’t post my own gameplay because I’m not a good player. There’s nothing you can learn from me. However, just because I can’t apply high level tools in my gameplay doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I post from players who regularly go to tournaments and achieve results with Raiden. THEY are the players who showcase what Raiden can do in a competitive environment, what tools he has in MUs, what you should be doing in order to win. THEY are the players who have the execution and reactions to apply the high level strategies and tools. Also note that I provide my own analyses in regards to what they do and don’t do in MUs.

I never told anyone that exactly, talking about in combos and it's good for punishing and I'm talking about general advice and also a few people on here who asked me since they know me from past mk games unbeknownst to you but most know me here from the 3d era though I've been playing mk since the 90s.
So let me get this straight you're lecturing me and my advice yet admit you aren't smart enough to form your own vids, tech and tactics so you share others?ok

Guess that answers that question. Well I ask you please dont criticize me if All I see from you is promoting what other people say instead of forming your own opinion, gameplay vids. You just post sonic and a few other tourney players some of whom never even heard of. And that's great and all but just saying what sonic says isnt always true and glad you admit that much. That and everyone knows raidens beat damage comes from 2 bars in tw.

Ok, but You are aware online makes a difference right? With timing, properties, ping etc vs. offline. Why take the risk for a few more % damage that's not worth it with wifi people with constant lag spikes when I can get the same or almost as much for safer guaranteed damage?

Also I see people use f4 into sc all the time to punish so you'd be wrong if you think that is never useful. Ive been competitive for years as well I just cant afford nor do I have time to spend, travel to tournaments. You dont have to be a tourney player to discover stuff you know. It was me afterall who discovered the teleport tech months ago and someone else pointed out something sonic posted that is old news regarding raijin few pages back. So I dont believe in that elitist mentality so you'll have to forgive me. There've been people on here who have discovered stuff as well besides those guys you've posted namely sonic.

 

[Mandolore1123]

A good safe tactic with him mid or playing footsies is F4~DB2 amplified, it's safe and if it hits you get a combo.

I never told anyone that exactly

Yeah...sure...
It’s safe...

Ok, but You are aware online makes a difference right? With timing, properties, ping etc vs. offline. Why take the risk for a few more % damage that's not worth it with wifi people with constant lag spikes when I can get the same or almost as much for safer guaranteed damage?

Because an Unbreakable punish of string into BF3 AMP does more damage than spending an extra bar. I already said that unless you’re closing out the round it’s never worth it to do two bar combos with Raiden because you need bar to do wake ups (U3 guarantees a strike throw mixup on hit and is safe on block; U2 on hit gets you a combos that does more damage than spending an extra bar) you also need FB reversals to threaten with your staggers in TW so if you blow you offensive bar then your F3 becomes much weaker.

I agree with most of what SF says. Though I believe he’s left out a few points:

• Zoning: I still firmly believe that Raijin suffers from a lack of options against good projectiles and zoning, since both of his projectile start up slowly, they can’t really be used to contest against characters like Outtake Johnny or Cetrion. If characters get the life lead, they can just stand back and chuck fireballs while Raijin has to walk them to the corner before he can really start his offense.
• Discharge: While SF is completely right that discharge can mess up a lot of characters (for example shutting down Geras’ 111 completely), that doesn’t mean there aren’t counters to this move. In his video he used Liu‘s F43 as an example, but he doesn’t mention all of Liu’s options after F43. While discharge beats F43 on block and F434 cleanly, it has been stated before that discharge can only trade with low fireball, and Liu can read discharge and just parry it into full combo. Therefore discharge can negate certain options but not all of them. Characters can also cancel their strings into specials to stuff discharge, an example would be NW doing DF2 in Matoka Warrior after his 111 (-7) on a read so Raiden can’t punish 111 and instead gets launched for a full combo. Another example would be Liu doing 124 into dragon kick for the same effect. However, often the characters’s options to stuff discharge are unsafe, and if read can be easily blocked and punished into big damage. Therefore the risk/reward may not necessarily be in the opponent’s favour. Nevertheless, this shows that as long as the opponent establishes that they are wiling to be unsafe to counter discharge, then they may still be able to use their tools.
• Footsies: While SF is again right in pointing out that Raijin‘s DF2 puts him at an ideal footsie range for F4, characters like that can contest him at this specific range may cause trouble (SD Noob’s slide comes to mind). However, I’m not pro and I haven’t even fought an SD noob yet, but from what I’ve seen Raijin needs to play a lot smarter if the opponent has tools that work well at the ranges that Raijin thrives at, which is fine in my opinion since every character has bad MUs.

Overall SF makes a lot of good points, especially bringing up Raijin’s corner game, which is super underrated IMO. However, I still don’t think that Raijin is really S tier due to the points I mentioned above. I look forward to SF bringing Raijin to tournament though, maybe then we can see if we can learn something new.

All I see from you is promoting what other people say instead of forming your own opinion

Right...no opinion here... I’m just parroting what they say...

You just post sonic and a few other tourney players some of whom never even heard of

Just because you’ve never heard of them doesn’t mean they aren’t good enough for you to learn from. This thread is for posting matches for people to get a reference on how Raiden is played at a high level. The best way is to showcase tournament players. I give my own analyses under every video I post. Learn to read.

You dont have to be a tourney player to discover stuff you know.

Correct. Just like you don’t have to use your own gameplay to prove points and discuss matchups.

 

[MKF30]

Yeah...sure...
It’s safe...

Because an Unbreakable punish of string into BF3 AMP does more damage than spending an extra bar. I already said that unless you’re closing out the round it’s never worth it to do two bar combos with Raiden because you need bar to do wake ups (U3 guarantees a strike throw mixup on hit and is safe on block; U2 on hit gets you a combos that does more damage than spending an extra bar) you also need FB reversals to threaten with your staggers in TW so if you blow you offensive bar then your F3 becomes much weaker.


Right...no opinion here... I’m just parroting what they say...

Just because you’ve never heard of them doesn’t mean they aren’t good enough for you to learn from. This thread is for posting matches for people to get a reference on how Raiden is played at a high level. The best way is to showcase tournament players. I give my own analyses under every video I post. Learn to read.

Correct. Just like you don’t have to use your own gameplay to prove points and discuss matchups.

You can believe what you wish but let me elaborate if I may was talking about f4 in terms of combo damage and punishes. I remember saying his f32 is safe which im.pretty cetain it is unless something changed im.not aware of? I have suggested in the past his amped sc be safe.

Not from the combos I've seen they do the same or the f4 do.more actually. Keep in mind I'm talking mid screen not corner combos. I often finish combos with superman since it puts raiden back at a good distance safe from immediate counters.

I personally dont like the wake ups in this game in general but I agree his u3 is bis best option. His u2 is only good if they jump at you, itll whiff alot on cross ups I've noticed so I dont use it tbh. His fb is good for aggressive foes as well since it has armor and if you've won the first round and winning the second you can also use his fb for big damage from a d2 or amp sc combo which will be bad for your opponent but I wouldn't recommend that unless you're confident you're not going to need your fb later. You know you can also use f3 cancel into teleport as it's a stagger putting pressure from the other side in tw.


I'm assuming you're being witty here, but just was just pointing that out in terms of vids. Seeing is believing.

I can read well, thank you very much. Perhaps if you read what I said you'd see I never said you couldn't learn from them. My point was you posting others and nothing of yourself with your "post vid analysis" think of it like a fan critiquing a batter from the couch yet has never actually played the game themselves. I also never said anything about them being good or bad. I said I never heard of them....

True but if I were to want to show someone something i would post a video. I think all that being said the general consensus from most raiden players is hes can be competitive but is still lower. Just going by general posts on here. Of course this can very well change in the future. I love using him against cassie and Sonya which not a lot of people mention in TW at least because he can get around their zoning. I think we can all agree his 3rd variation is one of the worst in the entire game.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Rewind (Raijin, NW Matoka warrior) VS Sonic (dirtbag Kano)
Rewind only plays Raijin for the first 2 matches before switching.
Quite clear that he’s unfamiliar. He doesn’t go to buff at all in the first half of the first round, and tries to do buff a lot on block which is super negative. You can see that SF eventually does punish Rewind’s B1~DB3 on block, and FB punishing 121. This shows that many ppl who play against Raijin don’t have the MU knowledge, which is why I just don‘t believe that Raijin is S-tier.

 

[Mandolore1123]

You can believe what you wish but let me elaborate if I may was talking about f4 in terms of combo damage and punishes. I remember saying his f32 is safe which im.pretty cetain it is unless something changed im.not aware of? I have suggested in the past his amped sc be safe.

I can read well, thank you very much. Perhaps if you read what I said you'd see I never said you couldn't learn from them. My point was you posting others and nothing of yourself with your "post vid analysis" think of it like a fan critiquing a batter from the couch yet has never actually played the game themselves. I also never said anything about them being good or bad. I said I never heard of them....

Well if i were to want to show someone something i would post a video. I think all that being said the general consensus from most raiden players is hes sn be competitive but is still lower. Just going by general posts on here. Of course this can very well change in the future. I love using him against cassie and Sonya which not a lot of people mention in TW at least because he can get around their zoning.

You literally said doing F4~storm cell in footsies, not punishing. Saying that F4~storm cell is safe in any sort of way is literally laughably wrong. Your argument for doing this suicide move in neutral is that it is safe (wrong) and IF it hits you get good damage. So no you were not talking about this in terms of combo damage and punishes. Read your own post. Note that AMPed storm cell should never be safe. This invalidates fly cancels and far TP cancels and make Raiden’s best move even better when it is already a launcher with a circular hitbox and jails from pokes. I‘ve said this too many times to count.

I do play the game. Therefore I can critique the matches I post because I know the character and the MUs that are being played. I don’t need a video to prove that. I observe things are are of interest to Raiden players and point them out for discussion. I formulate my own opinion on the matches played so I don’t get how there’s nothing from myself. If you see something I mention in my analyses that you aren’t sure of you can feel free to test it out yourself and prove me wrong. I don’t need to record 10 second videos just to show you how to punish a gap in a string or how you should be playing in neutral.

 

[MKF30]

You literally said doing F4~storm cell in footsies, not punishing. Saying that F4~storm cell is safe in any sort of way is literally laughably wrong. Your argument for doing this suicide move in neutral is that it is safe (wrong) and IF it hits you get good damage. So no you were not talking about this in terms of combo damage and punishes. Read your own post. Note that AMPed storm cell should never be safe. This invalidates fly cancels and far TP cancels and make Raiden’s best move even better when it is already a launcher with a circular hitbox and jails from pokes. I‘ve said this too many times to count.

I do play the game. Therefore I can critique the matches I post because I know the character and the MUs that are being played. I don’t need a video to prove that. I observe things are are of interest to Raiden players and point them out for discussion. I formulate my own opinion on the matches played so I don’t get how there’s nothing from myself. If you see something I mention in my analyses that you aren’t sure of you can feel free to test it out yourself and prove me wrong. I don’t need to record 10 second videos just to show you how to punish a gap in a string or how you should be playing in neutral.

If I did was probably talking in terms of online wifi not offline since you know this game is a bit different with wifi lag spikes that only half the sites been on about. SC is not safe at all under normal connections or offline. But again I've also said referencing to punishing, combos as well so yeah....

It can be safe when you have other ridiculous moves in the game like geras sand trap, jacquie bs and kabals strings who can all take risks without much penalty compared to say raiden. I dont see the big deal with amp sc being safe, because he still loses a bar of meter. He hits you're still eating that same damage anyway. He misses he gets punished and on block it has pushback putting both at neutral so I am all for it. Will disagree with you there.

It doesnt invalidate anything because that's up to the player on how they use meter. I dont go by what o e or two peoples view on how to use meter, everyone is different. I'd rather use it for more damaging sc combos and less superman cancels which take defensive meter btw not offense so not sure how this applies here.

I rarely do amped teleports, and I only use the placement teleports when I'm facing a good zone, if not I prefer to use amped sc combos on punish or when I get combo chance as well as superman cancels. I'm not sure what you're talking about with air cancels?He doesnt have that in tw... I dont use v1. Do you mean superman cancels?

I'm talking in terms of things that can theoretically work that would need proof of such not so much definitely but it always helps for other newer players especially to see these things, I personally dont need it but for noobs etc. I get it you dont want to be bothered but 10 sec video isnt a big deal man. I've posted vids that are literally under 2 minutes or less if i feel it can help in some way or form. Obviously it's your choice just like it's the players choice on how to use meter.

 

[Darth Mao]

More Rewind matches
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/519749633

 

[Marlow]

I dont see the big deal with amp sc being safe, because he still loses a bar of meter.

Making Storm Cell safe on Amp would be the same as making Johnny's Nut Punch safe on Amp.

It can be safe when you have other ridiculous moves in the game like geras sand trap, jacquie bs and kabals strings who can all take risks without much penalty compared to say raiden

Sand Trap is really good, but it's not ridiculous, and it's not safe. Same thing with Kabal's Nomad Dash. Not sure what the complaint is for Jaqui, again she has great tools, but nothing as near as cheap as something like SC being safe on Amp would be.


If you made SC safe on Amp, you'd simply reduce Raiden to being a braindead F2/F4/B12/F3/B31 into SC all day every day rush down potato. Not even the "cheap" characters in MK11 are that brain dead right now.

 

[MKF30]

Making Storm Cell safe on Amp would be the same as making Johnny's Nut Punch safe on Amp.



Sand Trap is really good, but it's not ridiculous, and it's not safe. Same thing with Kabal's Nomad Dash. Not sure what the complaint is for Jaqui, again she has great tools, but nothing as near as cheap as something like SC being safe on Amp would be.


If you made SC safe on Amp, you'd simply reduce Raiden to being a braindead F2/F4/B12/F3/B31 into SC all day every day rush down potato. Not even the "cheap" characters in MK11 are that brain dead right now.

I like you and all so no worries but I must disagree on this particular issue my friend. I know some Raiden players are against it, but I just see the crap NRS allows with other characters and think you know if it wasn't for that stuff I'd agree but since they clearly have character bias I would welcome the sae AMP SC, alot of moves have safe pushback in this game. LK's teleport punch in Wu Shi, Jade's amped nitro kick in jaded, Jax's strings, Jacqui's dash punch etc, etc So this is why I feel this way.

It's pretty safe from mid to far distance you're not countering that move. Only way it's not safe is if he does it close which no smart Geras player will do. It's also so fast vs. Raiden's lighting Strike that if you do it from a far and Geras blocks, he can literally do a counter sand trap and STILL get Raiden because his recovery is trash on that move. I think that's pretty ridiculous imo. Jacqui is just broken in V3 at least but that's another story. SC being safe on amp wouldn't be anymore cheaper than the stuff Geras, Jacqui have. And Cage is already is very good, NK beat Sonic Fox with him and he literally just picked him up like a month or two ago. This can not be said for Raiden however. They let EB and Scorp be broken for months before nerfing them, yet Raiden had a corner infinite that was patched in a few days lol. Don't get me wrong, I am against infinites but I'm also against broken stuff in general. I'm just pointing out their bias against this character.

It would not make him braindead, it would give him an actual threatening move that all you have to do is block. He only has it in one variation(if he had it in the other 2 I would agree but just TW) Meter in this game does not recharge like MK 9 or MK X and you only have 2 bars remember, so for me it's risk vs reward. If it's blocked you still used a bar of meter, and pushback just makes him safe from counter attack. The defensive player gets pushed back far enough to not attack but it's just one move. Braindead would be vanilla Scorp, Jacqui V3, Jax up close, Kabal's string that are all safe mind you.

 

[Darth Mao]

Raiden would be fine if they reduce the gap between strings and Lightning Bolt, making it possible to hit confirm with a launcher special or bf1 ex. There's no need to turn him in another braindead machine, please.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Raiden would be fine if they reduce the gap between strings and Lightning Bolt, making it possible to hit confirm with a launcher special or bf1 ex. There's no need to turn him in another braindead machine, please.

I would personally rather they make the fly cancels a bit safer. Though your suggestion would greatly benefit T&L so I buy into it.