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Raiden Buff Wishlist.

im really trying to like Raiden, but i cant i feel like they removed many things that made him good from MKX.
like b11 which was 8 frame mid. f4 which was a slow advancing stomp that was plus, jailing with MB teleport and his restand.

in certain Match ups shocker is easily punishable. i think he lacks a good neutral. he needs meter to Mix with little payoff. only good things i got out of raiden is wiff punishing or punishing gaps or punishing in general.

if i was to name any buffs for raiden i would make.

f1 a mid i think this would make his ex teleport much better.
make shocker -6 or -7. i dont know why make it -8 from -7.
i highly doubt this would happend but rework his trait. making his trait his main moveset would make him soo much better or make his trait like superman or blackadam which u can pressure when u activated it.


i think raiden is bottom 5. lol
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
He's most definitely one of the worse I'd go as far as to say contender for THE worse.

Since he doesn't have his binary MKX 50/50 I see no reason to have Tele so slow, it's a transversal Tele so there's no real mix up like I1 Scorpion and would make him unique to whiff punishing and pressure.

His MKX F4 would of went good with him in I2 you can tell he lacks it

Note: nothing wrong with a bottom 5 as there has to be a bottom 5 no matter what but from viable standpoint Raiden is lacking for sure
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
I think a case could be made for Raiden being bottom 1 honestly lol. As someone who was super excited for Raiden, I'd like to see him buffed. Let me break him down:

WITHOUT TRAIT:
  • Up close
    • Doing 113 which is +4 on block (but with a gap). This opens up a strike-throw mixup between D1~Shocker and regular grab.
      • Good:
        - D1~MB Shocker leads to ~30% damage for a bar and because D1 is 7 frames the opponent's only option is to backdash.
      • Bad:
        - D1~Shocker is somewhat unsafe at -8;
        - Forward grab leaves you just outside of J1 range, so this basically resets the neutral which is where Raiden is at his weakest.
        - Back throw leaves you just inside J1/J3 range, but you have to do a pretty deep jump-in to have it hit which means you can be anti-aired or trip guarded.
  • Mid range (footsie range)
    • Raiden's longest reaching normal is his F2, which hits mid and is 15 frames. Only his (slightly unsafe) sweep has decent range, think it's like 11 frames.
    • F2 only leads to mids and because it's slow and has the range of a normal sweep, most characters will be able to deal with it.
    • B12 has good range, but it's -15 on block and does ~3% on hit. For reference, Superman's F2 punishes it at max range. To get more damage you have to commit to a -30 on block Superman.
    • 3B3 and F2B3 have quite good range and do I believe 8% and 10% respectively, but take a long time to come out (30-40 frames or something if you whiff the standing 3 or F2).
  • Zoning
    • 25-frame high projectile that has a bunch of recovery.
      • Can be held! It can actually throw off people reliably, but I don't see Raiden ever really zoning with this if the opponent spams their own projectile.
    • That's it really.
  • Teleport
    • 16 startup, 21 recovery. For reference, I think Scarecrow's teleport is something like 13 startup 26 recovery, but I'm not sure about the exact data.
    • If the opponent just waits for you to do normal teleports, you're going to get punished or at least pressured. Doing normal teleport into D1~Shocker works on people new to the matchup, but will get you killed against people familiar with it.
    • Normal teleport isn't very good without trait. Combined with Raiden's poor zoning the opponent can just sit and wait and if you ever do a normal teleport you're getting punished.
  • MB teleport
    • 16 startup, like 1 recovery frame.
    • Teleport cancels are +1 at best (off of S3).
    • It's fast, but here are your options off of a MB teleport:
      • Raiden thinks opponent won't respect MB teleport:
        • Your best option is to go for D1~Shocker, which you need a 2nd bar of meter for to get decent damage.
        • 21D3 is also an option, but is slower than D1 (S2 is 10 frames, D1 is 7) and needs a 2nd bar to get decent damage off of.
        • 21U3 is also something for no meter, but is hard to hit confirm and is -20 on block.
      • Raiden thinks opponent will respect MB teleport:
        • You go for a mixup. In terms of mixups, Raiden has 112B3 (starts off a high but let's assume my opponent respects me) for ~6% damage that is about -13 on block, or 112~Shocker which Raiden needs a 2nd bar for.
          • 3F3 / 3xxMB Teleport is also a mixup, but the first option is unsafe and the second option requires a 2nd bar and can be kinda risky with how you want to do a fast normal afterwards (preferably F1 but it's a high).
        • You go for 113 to get a strike-throw mixup, with the strike needing a 2nd bar and the throw leaving you at a bad neutral range.
BUT TRAIT:
  • Up close is improved, because:
    • With lightnings strings you can still build a lot of meter on block which you need for MB teleport shenanigans (which often require 2 bars even).
    • D1~Shocker leads to like 35% now which is a better risk-reward for the unsafe shocker.
    • Throw gives slightly more damage (like 2% more but it's something) so the risk-reward is a little better.
    • Your damage is fucking bananas. You get high 40% combos off of most touches.
  • Mid range is improved, because:
    • B12 becoming a lightning string means it's harder to punish (you can stagger it), is pretty safe on block if held and can now be hit confirmed into Superman for corner carry and damage.
    • F2B3 and 3B3 can now be used for meter building.
  • Zoning is...well not really improved. You can make traps with DB1~DB MB though, good anti-air.
  • Teleport is improved because:
    • Fake-out teleport (DUD) can make normal teleports more unpredictable and can be combined with MB teleports.
    • Far teleports (DUF) make for good anti-zoning.
The downside? Trait lasts for 7 seconds with a 6 second cooldown and has a bunch of recovery when starting it up.

7 seconds leaves you with barely enough time to do anything with these benefits. You can only do like one piece of meter building (with B12 for instance) before your trait has nearly run out.

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The case I wanted to make here was that trait improves Raiden quite a bit, but it has way too short of a duration to do anything with it. Hell, even is trait was permanently on Raiden might not even make it to top 10. I propose the following buffs:

- Make trait last much longer so he has time to take advantage of its benefits.
- Improve his footsie game somehow. I understand that Raiden is supposed to have a weakness (16Bit said so in the Raiden stream for instance), but considering he is mediocre in all other terrains too it's overkill for him to get wrecked in footsie range by most characters in the game.
- Reduce the startup on teleport by a couple frames to make normal teleport worthwhile to use and to make MB teleport mixups a bigger threat. As of right now I'm spending a bar to do an unsafe D1~Shocker (requires a 2nd bar) or do a grab that leaves me in a bad position.
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
Thread died on the same day, rip. Anyone else that plays Raiden want to chime in on what they think of him?
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Thread died on the same day, rip. Anyone else that plays Raiden want to chime in on what they think of him?
I really miss MKX Raiden. It's not that Raiden is bad in this game, but he pales in comparison to the greatness that was Thunder God Raiden in MKX. I don't like how, in Injustice 2, they relegated his lightning strings to a pitiful 10 seconds (or whatever it is now) trait, and changed the inputs for most of them, so all of the cool, flashy compos I used to do in MKX are virtually impossible here.

And on a different note, his face looks weird in Injustice 2. I don't care for it. He looked awesome in MKX and here he just puts me off. It's not Raiden only, Sub-Zero doesn't look like himself either in this game, plus both of their primary costumes are decidedly not-Mortal Kombat, if that makes any sense. The same was true of Scorpion in Injustice 1. Whoever the character designer is for those games doesn't understand Mortal Kombat, either that or was instructed to give them a different look and feel (BIG mistake). I know, I know, this is not Mortal Kombat, but darn it, the characters are. If you are going to have guest characters from another franchise, at least do them justice (no pun intended.....ok, some pun intended).

Don't get me wrong though, yes I have some criticism, but overall I am happy Raiden is in this game, though I haven't played in a while. The whole Injustice thing is just not my cup of tea. Sometimes I start watching a match on YouTube and I find myself utterly bored. Plus, I miss my block button.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
I play against Izzymode all the time, so my suggestions for some buffs:

- Make Shocker safe (-6), seriously don't let him be punished by every character

- Reduced pushback on 113 and F3, his main tools for plus frames makes it very hard to enforce a d1/throw mixup

- Remove gap in between b11(3), absolutely unnecessary to have a gap this large in one of Raiden's few stagger strings

- Make Superman wakeup fully invincible, this is just a standard wakeup and shouldn't be stuffed

- Allow d1 to combo into background bounce, silly restriction for DLC for some reason

These buffs will make him usable at least. Probably needs a buff to trait, but not sure what would be needed.
 
I started playing raiden while trying to get every character to 20. He became my favorite to play merely because of fun factor. I know from a competetive stand point he is bottom 3. His neutral is awful, has no true mixups, and no safe pressure.

But online people are idiots, and I get away with EVERYTHING. d1 shocker combos off poke wars, mb trait into grabs or nj2 combos, mb f3 combos, trait mb lighting ball traps into teleport... The list goes on

Only when I run into a good play do I have issues. His trait could save him if they rework it into lasting longer and allowing it to work mid combos like supes or black adam. Now it works similar to Cheetah's trait which gives her an insane damage boost all while Raiden just gets some string extensions and different properties on his specials
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
Premium Supporter
His trait could save him if they rework it into lasting longer and allowing it to work mid combos like supes or black adam. Now it works similar to Cheetah's trait which gives her an insane damage boost all while Raiden just gets some string extensions and different properties on his specials
His trait gets him pretty insane damage too. If you haven't seen this already, take a look:

 

Anor

I am truth and light
I thought Raiden would be cool but he's weird and unfinished, It would be better if Raiden actually was not in this game, than in this form, waiting for MK11.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I thought Raiden would be cool but he's weird and unfinished, It would be better if Raiden actually was not in this game, than in this form, waiting for MK11.
I agree with the first of your statements, the second one I mostly disagree with. I think he feels weird and unfinished because what they did was take a character designed for another game (MKX) and tried to shoehorn him into this one, as opposed to designing and building him from the ground up with Injustice 2 in mind (disclaimer: i am definitely not sure about this, I may just be speculating, but that's what my gut tells me).
 
He should have his current trait active at all times. Give him big leg for follow up from distance teleport. And forward 2 faster.
 
So we had 3 negative frames subtracted from shocker.. which was necessary but not enough to change his placement at all. I really thought we were going to get a trait redo. This is not a well designed character nrs...
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
Patch notes aren't here yet, but so far it seems the following things changed:
  • Shocker is -5 from -8.
  • D1 is -1 on block from I believe -4.
  • 21D3 on hit leaves the opponent closer, allowing a background bounce.
  • D1~Background Bounce now works.
Frames on Teleport and Trait are the same, and the duration of Trait is the same. Safe shocker is nice, but I wonder if it will make enough of a difference considering the problems I talked about earlier in this thread.
 
I’ve played for a few hours last night as Raiden on mostly super girl scrubs. The shocker safety is incredibly noticeable. D1 shocker is his best tool by far and now that it isn’t full combo punishable he may just have passed captain cold on the tiers guys !

Edit but in all seriousness. It is a noticeable change. That lets you throw it out a lot more freely.
 
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He still needs the neutral improved before we see him in tournaments. His f2 probably needs to be made faster or make f1 a mid. You got give him one of those guys. Or you could stop being lazy and just add in the mkx f4.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Buff F2
Maybe extend the hitbox of some of his traited strings. I think some of them do have extended hitboxes from my minimal testing (like 11 feels like it goes further) but it's so minute it barely makes a difference. Would help his neutral a bit I guess

I didn't play a whole lot of MKX (watched a good bit of tourney play though, enjoyed Nivek's Raiden quite a lot). I don't really see a reason why they didn't just give him all his tools in MKX and just like... change them somehow? Idk but he feels super rushed or just not thought out well.
 
I mained every variation of raider in mkx. Sub zero in this game was well done. Basically ported over every one of his strings with the exception of b2 but gave him an overhead in another string. f4 was a core part of raiden's gameplay in mkx. f2 in this game needs to plus without f4. +2 at the very least. And the push back on f3 needs to be gone. I used to have a lot more faith in them. But I really don't think they know how to address this character. Just read the boards NRS. Sometimes we know what we're talking about.