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Breakthrough - Raiden Raiden balance changes

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I've been playing thundergod online for more than an hour now, the stamina nerf does hit him a bit hard but he is still doing fine. You just need to adjust your mindset to manage your stamina bar. The vacinity burst is now a life saver, it's a get-off-me tool that hits mid and leaves the opponent standing, no push back on the move that puts your opponent out of your reach which is great for Raiden.

No one would dare try to low profile Raiden on wakeup now, best they can do is to bait his wake up that is only -4 on block therefore it's safe. Also his vacinity blast and burst have a ridiculous hitbox now after the universal AA buff, they can hit from half screen away if the opponent pressed a button during their jump.

Add to that, you can still combo off of vacinity burst (ex db2) on maximum height, like if your opponent tried to cross jump out of the corner. Gotta say, Raiden is looking more and more like a God now.
How does the stamina nerf hit him hard? Could you elaborate?
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
How does the stamina nerf hit him hard? Could you elaborate?
ThunderGod Raiden relays on cancels for optimal damage and pressure, when your run startup uses 25% of your stamina there ain't much left to work with. For example his midscreen 40% combo off of b2 (b2~run~b14 ex shocker~b14 LRC~214 superman) will consume all your meter. same goes for f12b2 X3 midscreen for the other two variations.

So you can't afford to use your stamina at all now out side of combos, You will have to relay on walking and dashing for mobility 99% of the time. Otherwise you will barely get enough stamina remaining for one combo and it wont recover enough for your follow up on the second combo after restanding and landing your 50/50 game.

Don't even get me started on block cancel pressure, That tech is pretty much out of the meta.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I've been playing thundergod online for more than an hour now, the stamina nerf does hit him a bit hard but he is still doing fine. You just need to adjust your mindset to manage your stamina bar. The vacinity burst is now a life saver, it's a get-off-me tool that hits mid and leaves the opponent standing, no push back on the move that puts your opponent out of your reach which is great for Raiden.

No one would dare try to low profile Raiden on wakeup now, best they can do is to bait his wake up that is only -4 on block therefore it's safe. Also his vacinity blast and burst have a ridiculous hitbox now after the universal AA buff, they can hit from half screen away if the opponent pressed a button during their jump.

Add to that, you can still combo off of vacinity burst (ex db2) on maximum height, like if your opponent tried to cross jump out of the corner. Gotta say, Raiden is looking more and more like a God now.
For me it has been quite the opposite really. Cancels cost so much stamina that I'm always out of it and my cancel pressure suffers very greatly from it. Maybe I'll just need some time to adjust to the new MKX which has just had a massive meta shift.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
That doesn't sound good. Hopefully that stamina nerf hits all characters (almost) equally so by comparison, Raiden is not at a disadvantage.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
For me it has been quite the opposite really. Cancels cost so much stamina that I'm always out of it and my cancel pressure suffers very greatly from it. Maybe I'll just need some time to adjust to the new MKX which has just had a massive meta shift.
Yeah if your opponent is out of your reach you gotta have to creep up to them, no more running around.
 

Syzoth

The last Saurian from Zaterra - Syzoth - Reptile
I think this helps you guys in the Reptile matchup. 2 hits of armor means we can't out zone your wall carry and having a few wakeup becoming mids is nice.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I think this helps you guys in the Reptile matchup. 2 hits of armor means we can't out zone your wall carry and having a few wakeup becoming mids is nice.
It depends. I'll have to see how long the armor on EX superman lasts. Pre-patch it didn't last very long so it couldn't be used to blaze through projectiles from further than half-screen, wonder if it's still the case post-patch.
 
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nugava

Noob
EX db2 has to be one of the best armored moves of the game... -2 on block, 360 degrees hitbox, mid... And I watched Nivek play, he still used a lot of f24 and b11 cancel for the pressure... Just once per block string tho...
 

Anor

I am truth and light
So quiet in this thread )
Thunder God R.I.P
There's no really good improvement, what a you doing NRS?
Before patch i thought it couldn't get worse, but no, it possible.
 
So quiet in this thread )
Thunder God R.I.P
There's no really good improvement, what a you doing NRS?
Before patch i thought it couldn't get worse, but no, it possible.
I'm going to make a Raiden video tonight for this thread, or possibly put the vid in an October patch thread so we have everything in there talking this meta

Would that be something of interest?
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I'm going to make a Raiden video tonight for this thread, or possibly put the vid in an October patch thread so we have everything in there talking this meta

Would that be something of interest?
For sure. I was really looking forward to your comments on the Raiden changes during the The Common Cast, but you couldn't make it, so that would be a great thing to do instead. Probably even better now that you've had a couple of days to digest the changes.

For what is worth, just from playing for a couple of hours online, I don't think Thunder God is any worse, provided armored launchers being gone hurts the rest of the cast equally. The biggest adjustment for me is the lack of the (EX) DF+2 armored launcher, naturally, but other than that he feels the same to me, but then, again I don't do LRC, never even tried it (I know, I know, it's one of his best tools, but I don't have the time to play much these days, so whatever little time I have, I just go online and have a few casual matches for fun). The hitbox on his NJP seems larger now (although the animation looks weird), which helps a lot since that's one of my main tools for starting a combo and whiff punishing (Scorpion players that try to Teleport Punch out of the corner get caught by this consistently).

The less recovery on missed Electric Fly helps too. We can now escape from the corner with Air Electric Fly and not worry about whiff punishes. I like the fact Vicinity Burst leaves them standing there, but so far I have't really found any good follow-ups. The best I've been able to do is F1 into Throw, but I have a feeling some good set-ups would be possible from that.

Also, I've been having fun with 4, 4 ~ DF2. Easy execution, mid, and safe, plus a cool looking little combo.

All in all, from my limited experience, I don't think Thunder God is worse and my gut tells me he is better, we just need time to adjust our play styles and find all the new dirt.
 
For sure. I was really looking forward to your comments on the Raiden changes during the The Common Cast, but you couldn't make it, so that would be a great thing to do instead. Probably even better now that you've had a couple of days to digest the changes.

For what is worth, just from playing for a couple of hours online, I don't think Thunder God is any worse, provided armored launchers being gone hurts the rest of the cast equally. The biggest adjustment for me is the lack of the (EX) DF+2 armored launcher, naturally, but other than that he feels the same to me, but then, again I don't do LRC, never even tried it (I know, I know, it's one of his best tools, but I don't have the time to play much these days, so whatever little time I have, I just go online and have a few casual matches for fun). The hitbox on his NJP seems larger now (although the animation looks weird), which helps a lot since that's one of my main tools for starting a combo and whiff punishing (Scorpion players that try to Teleport Punch out of the corner get caught by this consistently).

The less recovery on missed Electric Fly helps too. We can now escape from the corner with Air Electric Fly and not worry about whiff punishes. I like the fact Vicinity Burst leaves them standing there, but so far I have't really found any good follow-ups. The best I've been able to do is F1 into Throw, but I have a feeling some good set-ups would be possible from that.

Also, I've been having fun with 4, 4 ~ DF2. Easy execution, mid, and safe, plus a cool looking little combo.

All in all, from my limited experience, I don't think Thunder God is worse and my gut tells me he is better, we just need time to adjust our play styles and find all the new dirt.
Firstly, thank you for tuning in and awaiting my comments. I did touch on him in the first 10-15 mins for a bit but my power went out just about when we were going over Lao I think?

Anyway, I'd be more than happy to cover how TG is with these changes. I'm a little interested in MoS, tbh right now. At least until I figure out how his new orb damage adds to his corner damage. I haven't fully adapted to this stamina thing, which doesn't hurt his fbrc very much, but it does hurt him a bit fullscreen I feel like but there's ways around it, very situational too.

I'll link the thread in here when I get it done :)
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Thanks for the tag. Like the combos and implementing vicinity. The orb mid combo is cool but how good is a trap on someone's wakeup now? It's still great to have but with 2 hit armor everywhere and IIRC displacer and TG offer better offensive options. And that's an actual question up for anyone to answer. I haven't played in forever and I hear the overall changes switched up the game a bit. So I think a setup type like MoS might fare better now though.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
After seeing this MoS match I thought of something I want to try out later.
 
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DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
After playing around with Thunder God a bit more, I think I judged him too quickly. The opponent not having armored launchers anymore is a pretty big pro for Raiden so he doesn't have to worry about his cancels or his +2s into 8-frame B1 getting amored.

Cancels taking more stamina does take some getting used to, but it's better not to rely on it too much. I also downplayed Raiden's stagger pressure a bit in the past, it actually doesn't seem too bad.

Really, the main reason to pick Thunder God is for the greatness that is B1. Converting it into 28% meterlessly is something Displacer and MoS can only dream of.
 
After playing around with Thunder God a bit more, I think I judged him too quickly. The opponent not having armored launchers anymore is a pretty big pro for Raiden so he doesn't have to worry about his cancels or his +2s into 8-frame B1 getting amored.

Cancels taking more stamina does take some getting used to, but it's better not to rely on it too much. I also downplayed Raiden's stagger pressure a bit in the past, it actually doesn't seem too bad.

Really, the main reason to pick Thunder God is for the greatness that is B1. Converting it into 28% meterlessly is something Displacer and MoS can only dream of.
Bravo, sir. Glad to see a bit of positivity around TG. He's not even close to bad. All depends on the MU and how well the player can establish a good mindgame.
 
After playing around with Thunder God a bit more, I think I judged him too quickly. The opponent not having armored launchers anymore is a pretty big pro for Raiden so he doesn't have to worry about his cancels or his +2s into 8-frame B1 getting amored.

Cancels taking more stamina does take some getting used to, but it's better not to rely on it too much. I also downplayed Raiden's stagger pressure a bit in the past, it actually doesn't seem too bad.

Really, the main reason to pick Thunder God is for the greatness that is B1. Converting it into 28% meterlessly is something Displacer and MoS can only dream of.
What do you follow b1 with? For the 28% meterless combo? Also anything beats out electrocute now so what is Raiden's best wakeup??
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I played as TG Raiden against my buddy. We got bodied each other. I have gotten used to TG Raiden by now, but I want to level up for him.

Usually, how do you start the match after the "FIGHT" announce? I do the EX electrocute. I'm in need to find something similar like Sub Zero's D4xxIce Klone to defend myself from my opponents.

In the corner, when my opponents are down, what do I do to keep them in the corner? I need to get used of doing a lot of BnBs there.

Thanks, sirs.
 
What do you follow b1 with? For the 28% meterless combo? Also anything beats out electrocute now so what is Raiden's best wakeup??
TG: b11 fbrc/b112/b1122/b11 fbrc block
Best bnb off b11 (b11<fbrc<213<f2<f2<b112(hold) superman (meterless).
One bar instead of b112(hold) do b11 ex shocker into b112(hold) superman

Wakeups:
TG/MoS: ex db2

Displacer: ex DU teleport/ex db2