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Breakthrough - Raiden Raiden balance changes

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Normal vicinity blast is easier to combo now WITHOUT run cancelling. There are corner combos you can do that use non runcancelled vicinity blast and it scales less, because run cancelling it adds scaling. EX vicinity blast leaves you standing on hit, but against an airborne opponent it has more gravity than currently so you can't really combo off it.

Master of Storms has always been my favorite variation and I hope more people pick it up. The orbs already cancelled run before, and they should be even better now with the increased DOT and universal engine changes.

There's also new swag corner combos in the corner that allow you to set up an orb mid combo from 21~ex fireball, NJP. This is possible due to the reduced recovery on placing an orb. I can post vids tomorrow.
Nice. Can't wait for that patch to hit. How soon can you post? After patch hits?
 

Jaiyson

100% Jamaican
Good change, but grandmaster can break even punchwalk's armor. Don't get that excited vs the clone. ;)

Show us the Master of Storm changes pplllzzz NRS.
That happen with f4 ex shatter.. but that doesn't have armor anymore so maybe u have to commit to f4 ex slide to break wakeups now..
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Normal vicinity blast is easier to combo now WITHOUT run cancelling. There are corner combos you can do that use non runcancelled vicinity blast and it scales less, because run cancelling it adds scaling. EX vicinity blast leaves you standing on hit, but against an airborne opponent it has more gravity than currently so you can't really combo off it.

Master of Storms has always been my favorite variation and I hope more people pick it up. The orbs already cancelled run before, and they should be even better now with the increased DOT and universal engine changes.

There's also new swag corner combos in the corner that allow you to set up an orb mid combo from 21~ex fireball, NJP. This is possible due to the reduced recovery on placing an orb. I can post vids tomorrow.
Does that mean you can get a full combo off of EX Vicinity Blast on hit if the opponent is on the ground?
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Normal vicinity blast is easier to combo now WITHOUT run cancelling. There are corner combos you can do that use non runcancelled vicinity blast and it scales less, because run cancelling it adds scaling. EX vicinity blast leaves you standing on hit, but against an airborne opponent it has more gravity than currently so you can't really combo off it.

Master of Storms has always been my favorite variation and I hope more people pick it up. The orbs already cancelled run before, and they should be even better now with the increased DOT and universal engine changes.

There's also new swag corner combos in the corner that allow you to set up an orb mid combo from 21~ex fireball, NJP. This is possible due to the reduced recovery on placing an orb. I can post vids tomorrow.
When you post that MoS vid drop me a tag please.
 

Anor

I am truth and light
No fix for TG damage scaling lighting strings :(
Maybe, I hope f2 is better start.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I'll drink to 44 becoming +2 and special cancelable. I love this string but it was useless before. Now, we can finally get some roundhouses going.

In general I'm satisfied enough with Raiden's changes. And let's not forget, Displacer EX teleport is now a viable wakeup.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
RAIDEN TOP 5 BOYZ !!!!!
I'd honestly doubt it. The MoS changes were pretty minor, shocker and EX-shocker being mids is great (though EX shocker lost armor) and Displacer getting a viable EX teleport wakeup is magnificent. The changes are fine but not ground-breaking.

Except for the 44 special cancel and it being +2. Swaggy combos boys.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Stagger game better because of new armor meta, still has 50-50 into big damage and corner carry, mid shocker, mid safe armor that hits on all sides, meterless vicinity blast combos, more plus frames, better mobility, same corner dirt, same 6 frame meterless punish into full combo and corner carry, 3 well rounded variations. So yeah, Im calling it now, you can disagree if you want but at least say why if being in the top 10 is so absurd of a claim after these buffs that all I get is a "lol"
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Stagger game better because of new armor meta, still has 50-50 into big damage and corner carry, mid shocker, mid safe armor that hits on all sides, meterless vicinity blast combos, more plus frames, better mobility, same corner dirt, 3 well rounded variations. So yeah, Im calling it now, you can disagree if you want but at least say why if being in the top 10 is so absurd of a claim after these buffs that all I get us a "lol"
Fair enough.

- Raiden's stagger game has never been that great outside of F12 in Displacer/MoS. He generally has pretty long recovery frames on his strings and those haven't been touched in this patch. Even with the new armor meta I think most characters can still poke out of a lot. Although...now that I think about it, the armor meta may actually be pretty good for Thunder God as the problem with his cancels were that he would always get armored out of.

- Raiden's 50/50 is good in the corner, but midscreen B2 is very risky. Corner carry is still there, but to be honest most characters have good corner carry.

- Mid shocker is nice enough, may make EX shocker a good footsie tool (although it's full combo punishable so it remains to be seen). Regular shocker being a mid probably doesn't mean that much, but I'll have to see in practice.

- Vicinity Burst is a high.

- DB2 giving a combo sounds interesting, but F1 is a better anti-air in most situations. Goro's stomp, Impostor's teleport and Possessed's teleport are the exceptions. In any case, I don't think it changes much save for the aforementioned matchups.

- More + frames as in 44 being +2 now? It's still a 15-frame high with a meh hitbox. In Thunder God you'd just do a B11 cancel to be +2 (or a 11 cancel to be +4) and in Displacer/MoS you would do F22+4 instead because F2 is a 14-frame mid. I'm much mroe happy about 44 being special cancelable because of how cool the move is.

- Better mobility from Superman having less recovery is a change I actually forgot to read. That does sound pretty interesting because I use air Superman fairly often. I'm now excited.

- Same corner dirt doesn't really place Raiden much higher because, well, it didn't get changed. You could argue other characters' dirt got changed but it remains to be seen whether that will be noticeable in practice.

- Master of Storms didn't seem to get that big of buffs to be honest so I'd say Raiden has 2 well-rounded variations (as he has had for a while) and MoS is there for funsies.

I would agree that Raiden has definitely gone up in the tier list, but top 10 I'm really not sure about. We'll see, maybe he'll be like #11.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Fair enough.

- Raiden's stagger game has never been that great outside of F12 in Displacer/MoS. He generally has pretty long recovery frames on his strings and those haven't been touched in this patch. Even with the new armor meta I think most characters can still poke out of a lot. Although...now that I think about it, the armor meta may actually be pretty good for Thunder God as the problem with his cancels were that he would always get armored out of.

- Raiden's 50/50 is good in the corner, but midscreen B2 is very risky. Corner carry is still there, but to be honest most characters have good corner carry.

- Mid shocker is nice enough, may make EX shocker a good footsie tool (although it's full combo punishable so it remains to be seen). Regular shocker being a mid probably doesn't mean that much, but I'll have to see in practice.

- Vicinity Burst is a high.

- DB2 giving a combo sounds interesting, but F1 is a better anti-air in most situations. Goro's stomp, Impostor's teleport and Possessed's teleport are the exceptions. In any case, I don't think it changes much save for the aforementioned matchups.

- More + frames as in 44 being +2 now? It's still a 15-frame high with a meh hitbox. In Thunder God you'd just do a B11 cancel to be +2 (or a 11 cancel to be +4) and in Displacer/MoS you would do F22+4 instead because F2 is a 14-frame mid. I'm much mroe happy about 44 being special cancelable because of how cool the move is.

- Better mobility from Superman having less recovery is a change I actually forgot to read. That does sound pretty interesting because I use air Superman fairly often. I'm now excited.

- Same corner dirt doesn't really place Raiden much higher because, well, it didn't get changed. You could argue other characters' dirt got changed but it remains to be seen whether that will be noticeable in practice.

- Master of Storms didn't seem to get that big of buffs to be honest so I'd say Raiden has 2 well-rounded variations (as he has had for a while) and MoS is there for funsies.

I would agree that Raiden has definitely gone up in the tier list, but top 10 I'm really not sure about. We'll see, maybe he'll be like #11.
First of all:
  • Raiden - Vicinity Burst now has 2 hits of armor, hits MID, is -2 on block(down from 0), does 9 damage (upfrom 5), and no longer knocks down
Mid armor that is -2 and hits around his whole body. That is going to be insanely good now.

I have staggered with F2 all the time, it just takes conditioning to make you opponent block one attack and then you are plus 2 so B11 mid frame trap after. F2 2+4 EX lighting ball is a frame trap too and now that people dont have armor into full combo that got better. Conditioning for staggers got a lot easier so even with 44 starting high it wont matter, just has to be used at the correct times. If I can mix in 24 frame high uppercuts that are plus on block into my Lackey pressure through conditioning I see no reason Raiden cant with this. I dont know as much on thunder god but with runs costing more conditioning your opponent to block for plus frames is going to be better than just doing B11 cancels at the cost of stamina sometimes.

Raiden keeping his dirt while ithers lose theirs is a buff in the grand scheme of things.

MoS benefits from the meta janges too, especially the lose stamina if you get hit out of run which I assume running into a lighting ball counts towards that. Also as Ppj said he will have chances to orb mid combo now

Vicinity blast as an anti air I wasnt thinking about but that might work now with the new jumping hurtbox changes, I was talking about new meterless corner combos with the recovery buff and potential for some mid screen ones maybe after an njp.

Im not complaining about Raiden being too good after this, he is one of my secondaries, Im just saying these changes should not be down played with the "well I guess theyre alright..." kind of attitude.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
First of all:
  • Raiden - Vicinity Burst now has 2 hits of armor, hits MID, is -2 on block(down from 0), does 9 damage (upfrom 5), and no longer knocks down
Mid armor that is -2 and hits around his whole body. That is going to be insanely good now.
I'm an idiot, thanks for highlighting that.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Raiden NJP looks really strange now, Not sure if it's a bug or stealth buff but it looks like it have more range and can catch ppl jumping from much farther distances than it used to. the lightning sparks looks like they are coming from above his hands instead from within.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
I've been playing thundergod online for more than an hour now, the stamina nerf does hit him a bit hard but he is still doing fine. You just need to adjust your mindset to manage your stamina bar. The vacinity burst is now a life saver, it's a get-off-me tool that hits mid and leaves the opponent standing, no push back on the move that puts your opponent out of your reach which is great for Raiden.

No one would dare try to low profile Raiden on wakeup now, best they can do is to bait his wake up that is only -4 on block therefore it's safe. Also his vacinity blast and burst have a ridiculous hitbox now after the universal AA buff, they can hit from half screen away if the opponent pressed a button during their jump.

Add to that, you can still combo off of vacinity burst (ex db2) on maximum height, like if your opponent tried to cross jump out of the corner. Gotta say, Raiden is looking more and more like a God now.