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Strategy - Summoner Quan Chi Summoner Variation Discussion Thread

Israfel

Designer for BxA
Here's a set I had with Michaelangelo not too long ago. Quan vs Quan is so silly. Please feel free to discuss and criticize. Im always looking to learn to things with Quan.

good stuff, Quan on Quan violence is always a tough MU
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks

51% and 49% one bar in the corner. First one is pretty unlikely that you'll get it. Hit the second one all the time though
 

51% and 49% one bar in the corner. First one is pretty unlikely that you'll get it. Hit the second one all the time though
If we are talking about f212 starter than this is a 50% one bar using the same combo progression I have used in my corner combos starting with b2/b3:

And if we are talking non practical starters like the maximum held b2, I have got the same combo starting with standing 4 instead of f212, it does 52%))) I will upload it later on.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
soo how do u fight jason with this variation, feels like you can't keep em out, and once he's in theres nothing you can do....
 

gibster13

A fan of fans
I don't think Quan can cope with the rushdown of the game, you can fool yourself about "it's a new meta and he plays it well."

I am not denying the fact he is possibly the best zoner in the game but it doesn't help his awful defence. His mixup potential is not what he wants to do, he wants to be near full screen not in.

Its only my opinion but I don't think he is all that
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
I don't think Quan can cope with the rushdown of the game, you can fool yourself about "it's a new meta and he plays it well."

I am not denying the fact he is possibly the best zoner in the game but it doesn't help his awful defence. His mixup potential is not what he wants to do, he wants to be near full screen not in.

Its only my opinion but I don't think he is all that
I think pre patch the "bad defense" argument was starting to lose a bit of weight anyway, but now skydrop grants equal reward to the rest of the casts armor so... why is it so bad? The tracking isn't the best and it is quite slow, but it does its job blowing up gaps and such. On top of this he also still has some of the best offense himself, especially now he isn't risking getting launched with every ExRune/ExSkull.

You see, what most people don't understand is Summoner isn't just a zoner, he's a hybrid zoner and rushdown character. He has the best zoning along with some of the best mixups, with somewhat decent buttons.

You can fool yourself about the character being bad, but it might just be you. He has his bad MUs for sure, and I think Sorcerer is probably better than him now, but to say he's not very good is ridiculous. He doesn't really need to play the new meta, he still plays the old one and does it pretty well.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
I think pre patch the "bad defense" argument was starting to lose a bit of weight anyway, but now skydrop grants equal reward to the rest of the casts armor so... why is it so bad? The tracking isn't the best and it is quite slow, but it does its job blowing up gaps and such. On top of this he also still has some of the best offense himself, especially now he isn't risking getting launched with every ExRune/ExSkull.

You see, what most people don't understand is Summoner isn't just a zoner, he's a hybrid zoner and rushdown character. He has the best zoning along with some of the best mixups, with somewhat decent buttons.

You can fool yourself about the character being bad, but it might just be you. He has his bad MUs for sure, and I think Sorcerer is probably better than him now, but to say he's not very good is ridiculous. He doesn't really need to play the new meta, he still plays the old one and does it pretty well.
And his setplay in the corner is still *soap bar in mouth*
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I think pre patch the "bad defense" argument was starting to lose a bit of weight anyway, but now skydrop grants equal reward to the rest of the casts armor so... why is it so bad? The tracking isn't the best and it is quite slow, but it does its job blowing up gaps and such. On top of this he also still has some of the best offense himself, especially now he isn't risking getting launched with every ExRune/ExSkull.

You see, what most people don't understand is Summoner isn't just a zoner, he's a hybrid zoner and rushdown character. He has the best zoning along with some of the best mixups, with somewhat decent buttons.

You can fool yourself about the character being bad, but it might just be you. He has his bad MUs for sure, and I think Sorcerer is probably better than him now, but to say he's not very good is ridiculous. He doesn't really need to play the new meta, he still plays the old one and does it pretty well.
the problem with sky drop is that it easily gets stuffed on the way down because its armor doesnt last that long, or at the very least it should have more priority.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
the problem with sky drop is that it easily gets stuffed on the way down because its armor doesnt last that long, or at the very least it should have more priority.
Reason it doesn't have armor on the way down is because moves don't have armor on the active frames and on the way down is the active frames of the move.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Reason it doesn't have armor on the way down is because moves don't have armor on the active frames and on the way down is the active frames of the move.
and thats what makes this particular move garbage, it either needs armor all the way down, or needs to stuff their normals, otherwise why spend the bar if they don't have to respect the move in the first place?
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Skydrop still sucks but it has its uses. There's no block infinities in this game and d3 gives a free 50/50 so be patient and guess. Exceptions being unstoppable Jason and smoke. May need to counter pick those. But 50% one bar combos is pretty good damage. Solid high mid tier imo
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
why is smoke a tough mu exactly? does regular phase have invincibility or only ex phase?
Smoke has a much better neutral than Quan for a start which makes it difficult to play footsies cause of B2(?) and F4.

Smoke also has options to challenge Quans zoning which most of the cast don't, like teleports or a well placed normal/ExSmokeBomb.

Smoke also does to Quan what Quan does to Smoke. Despite B1 being fuzzyable now I don't believe it's reactable so he still mixes you just like you mix him. Quan us at an advantage when near the corner though imo because you out damage him by quote a lot, and have better corner setplay.

I don't think it's insta death though. I could see it being a light 6-4 to Smoke but, admittedly, ive never really played any godlike Smoke players.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Smoke has a much better neutral than Quan for a start which makes it difficult to play footsies cause of B2(?) and F4.

Smoke also has options to challenge Quans zoning which most of the cast don't, like teleports or a well placed normal/ExSmokeBomb.

Smoke also does to Quan what Quan does to Smoke. Despite B1 being fuzzyable now I don't believe it's reactable so he still mixes you just like you mix him. Quan us at an advantage when near the corner though imo because you out damage him by quote a lot, and have better corner setplay.

I don't think it's insta death though. I could see it being a light 6-4 to Smoke but, admittedly, ive never really played any godlike Smoke players.
its probably also harder to get out once smoke corners you, where as if u corner him, he gets out fairly easy. I can see that too now.
 
Something that could have some use
Dunno if it's known or not , the issue is that I can't seem to hit the jip if they're ducking or blocking low
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
so, im pretty sure the Takeda matchup is bad, but how bad exactly and wtf do i do? i feel like i have no options vs lasher & shirai ryu