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Strategy Punishing Smoke

RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
What happens if smoke decides to d1 xx smoke bomb after you let go of block to start your punish? do you get poked and re-launched? Please test this.
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Good stuff Charlie. Love that this is out there now :D

Would love to know if this works for all variants of smoke bomb off of block strings. If so, Smoke is going down a few notches in the tier charts.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
This is stupid. Smoke is going to hitconfirm the b23 bomb. Smoke can very easily do one of two things: confirm a block and smoke port away, or simply poke you. Thats not all of his potential options, either.

This is an extremely unsafe method of "punishing" a dialed in smoke bomb. What happens if you are just a few frames off? you're gonna get launched, and you're gonna have a bad time.
 
Enenra

Enenra

Go to hell.
FrothyOmen said:
This is stupid. Smoke is going to hitconfirm the b23 bomb. Smoke can very easily do one of two things: confirm a block and smoke port away, or simply poke you. Thats not all of his potential options, either.

This is an extremely unsafe method of "punishing" a dialed in smoke bomb. What happens if you are just a few frames off? you're gonna get launched, and you're gonna have a bad time.
Click to expand...
You stop it with that logic. That's naughty. Bad Frothy, bad. Now go to bed.
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
FrothyOmen said:
This is stupid. Smoke is going to hitconfirm the b23 bomb. Smoke can very easily do one of two things: confirm a block and smoke port away, or simply poke you. Thats not all of his potential options, either.

This is an extremely unsafe method of "punishing" a dialed in smoke bomb. What happens if you are just a few frames off? you're gonna get launched, and you're gonna have a bad time.
Click to expand...
From testing, I can tell you it's quite easy to avoid. If smoke smokes away...then you are still safe. I see a lot of smokes throwing it out similar to cyrax's net...sometimes just to continue the string and catch a counter poke. This isn't my tech, but I can definitely see it's uses.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
TakeAChance

It's not to say that I never try it in certain matchups or against certain players if I know it'll work against them at least once, however b23 xx smoke away is way more beneficial for smoke than it is his opponent. his whole job is running away the whole game and praying to catch you doing something unsafe/whiff punishing.who's to say i cant b23 and then walk backwards and then b23 punish your punish attempt?

tldr inception punishing
 
greeneless

greeneless

Noob
FrothyOmen said:
TakeAChance

It's not to say that I never try it in certain matchups or against certain players if I know it'll work against them at least once, however b23 xx smoke away is way more beneficial for smoke than it is his opponent. his whole job is running away the whole game and praying to catch you doing something unsafe/whiff punishing.who's to say i cant b23 and then walk backwards and then b23 punish your punish attempt?

tldr inception punishing
Click to expand...
Well B23 is negative on block... Idk how many characters that is going to work out against. You might be able to block their punish attempt and punish them for trying to punish you if they're expecting to punish your smoke bomb.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
FrothyOmen

i'll just iceball,that catches smoke away doesn't it?

the point is,using this string has a lot more potential to be disadvantageous to smoke than sub and that's WIN.

Mah congaratz Sub_Crash4

now go test more strings,bitch!
 
greeneless

greeneless

Noob
FrothyOmen said:
Source?
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that it is, unless there is some serious block stun on the opposition. If you get away with poking after wards it's probably because they're respecting the smoke bomb on block that everyone seems to do. I don't have a source, I didn't think I needed one. I will test it later today to be sure though.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
Qwark28 but that's extremely unsafe on block! What if I don't smoke away and then full combo you for trying? And ice ball doesnt exactly have the fastest startup; I'm sure that I could b23 > d1 and pull you out of the iceball before you release it. Hell, if you're loose on block, b23 > d1 xx bomb will also pull you for a combo. I feel like there's not much that sub-zero can do except d4 + blk in case he gets out-poked, then if he gets a hit put pressure on smoke. If slide is blockable then it's out of the question too
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Good luck doing this to me

EDIT: it does make blocked SB slightly more punishable, but it's risky to try. Besides, every time I throw a point blank blocked SB it's because I fucked up the block confirm into drift away.

NBD GUIZE
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
greeneless said:
I am pretty sure that it is, unless there is some serious block stun on the opposition. If you get away with poking after wards it's probably because they're respecting the smoke bomb on block that everyone seems to do. I don't have a source, I didn't think I needed one. I will test it later today to be sure though.
Click to expand...
Well, you're talking about a situation that comes down to a matter of a few frames, so frame data is of course relevant....
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
FrothyOmen said:
Qwark28 but that's extremely unsafe on block! What if I don't smoke away and then full combo you for trying? And ice ball doesnt exactly have the fastest startup; I'm sure that I could b23 > d1 and pull you out of the iceball before you release it. Hell, if you're loose on block, b23 > d1 xx bomb will also pull you for a combo. I feel like there's not much that sub-zero can do except d4 + blk in case he gets out-poked, then if he gets a hit put pressure on smoke. If slide is blockable then it's out of the question too
Click to expand...
That's the point,it's a mindgame with greater rewards for sub,i can punish b23 on block
i think i can front dash and jump if you smoke away,if you've put the inputs already i'll full combo punish,if you haven't i'll hit you out of it for full combo again.

i can iceball if you smoke away
i can slide if you smoke away
i can full combo punish if you go for a poke.

thing is,you're already negative,what you gotta hope for is i don't guess right and you don't get damaged,if dash to jip works then you have to guess,if it doesn't then it's just mindgames,if slide is fast enough to punish b23 on block then it'll also work on smoke away,basically a choice between 9% or full combo.

all the above apply if you don't use EX bomb,if you do then i have to respect that,but i can still punish it because it's point blank.

KT Smith please explain.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
If block is released and the opponent takes the time to move back and then to use a normal to punish, does d1+smoke bomb beat that?? If it does, it is kind of irrelevant because then you are just back into a guessing game.
 
greeneless

greeneless

Noob
FrothyOmen said:
Well, you're talking about a situation that comes down to a matter of a few frames, so frame data is of course relevant....
Click to expand...
What I meant was... I thought everyone already treated this string as negative frames, thus me not needing to test it... I could be wrong. I doubt it though. It looks like -4 or so the naked eye, enough to get checked but not punished.
 
Prinz

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
FrothyOmen said:
This is stupid. Smoke is going to hitconfirm the b23 bomb. Smoke can very easily do one of two things: confirm a block and smoke port away, or simply poke you. Thats not all of his potential options, either.

This is an extremely unsafe method of "punishing" a dialed in smoke bomb. What happens if you are just a few frames off? you're gonna get launched, and you're gonna have a bad time.
Click to expand...
Jade's b1 (16 frames) is a guaranteed 35% :D, in training mode anyway. But he can definitely smoke away/teleport.
BUT Smoke is down a tier, dddaaayuuuummm, exposed?
 
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