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Question - Kitana Punishing moves?

Hi, so I'm labbing kitana and noticed something that makes no sense. I'm on training mode and have been practicing punishes for certain moves against the AI. So I put predator on reversal mode and his scimitar stab to be his reversal move. So i block his reversal and I try punishing it with forward 112 which has a startup of 16 frames, but he always blocks that combo, so his recovery seems faster than hers, meaning I can't use f112 to punish that move, HOWEVER, if I use 212 after I block his move then I punish him every time, the funny thing is that her 212 has a startup of 20 frames, 4 frames slower than her f112, so how can that be? Is the info wrong in the game? Basically I'm asking why her 16 frame startup combo is too slow to punish but her 20 frame startup isn't?
Also for punishes what do you guys use? I have a feeling that most use just 11 starter since it's her fastest combo but want to hear your opunions, thanks.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
The F1 in F112 is 14 frames, so that makes it a harder punish. The first 2 in 212 is 9 frames so it's a muuuch much much easier window to punish.

I think you're looking at the startup for the other inputs (or moves) of the string or something else completely. 20 frames is the startup of the last 2 in 212. Not the first attack of the string.
 
The F1 in F112 is 14 frames, so that makes it a harder punish. The first 2 in 212 is 9 frames so it's a muuuch much much easier window to punish.

I think you're looking at the startup for the other inputs (or moves) of the string or something else completely. 20 frames is the startup of the last 2 in 212. Not the first attack of the string.
Yea I thought 212 string had a 20 frame startup, but you're saying for strings/combos you measure startup speed by the first button and the data shown is for the startup of the last button in a string?

Are you sure you're not looking at the string frame data instead of the Normals frame data?
Yea I'm looking at the strings, didn't know that frames were measured by the first normal and not the whole string.
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
Yea I thought 212 string had a 20 frame startup, but you're saying for strings/combos you measure startup speed by the first button and the data shown is for the startup of the last button in a string?


Yea I'm looking at the strings, didn't know that frames were measured by the whole string not the first normal.
Yeah the string data gives you information about the last hit in the string
 

errormacro7

#MakeSpecialForcesGreatAgain
Cool, so a better AND faster punisher with kitana is 212 instead of f112 then correct?
It really depends on the move you're trying to punish. For example, I play Sonya, and I block a punishable move with lots of block stun, I never try to punish it with B14 and B332 because it's very likely it won't work. Instead, I choose to punish things with 121 (her standing 1 is 7f), in Demo I can hitconfirm that into a full combo when I have grenades.

Kitana's F112 does more damage, but if I were you, I'd punish everything with 212 when I'm not feeling confident that it'll work.
 
you mean kounter?
I wouldn't call it a kounter as a counter implies you're countering something, in this case a move, for example a counter is like doing an AA when someone jumps.

It really depends on the move you're trying to punish. For example, I play Sonya, and I block a punishable move with lots of block stun, I never try to punish it with B14 and B332 because it's very likely it won't work. Instead, I choose to punish things with 121 (her standing 1 is 7f), in Demo I can hitconfirm that into a full combo when I have grenades.

Kitana's F112 does more damage, but if I were you, I'd punish everything with 212 when I'm not feeling confident that it'll work.
Yea I see, so if their move or string has a lot of recovery then yes use the most damaging punish but when you don't have too many frames then use the fastest punish correct?
 
On a unrelated side note. This is why I wish there was a guide for labbing. I myself until recently didn't know the difference between sting and move data.
And like above 21 is her go to punish. If I'm feeling lucky F11 ex fan.