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Proposed Changes to Ivy

Bed of Thorns

- Increase the Damage by 2x

- Prevent opponents from jumping or dashing

- Decrease the startup to the meterburn version

Rhytidome Skin

- Reduced the recovery from 50 to 38-40

Chompy and Bitey Bash

- Remove

Pheromone Dust

- Same as her ultimate but it’s a restand that doesn’t grab the opponent

- Meter burning allows you to follow up with a combo but not as much hit advantage as her grab

Datura Hammer

- Can no longer Back dash out of Datura Hammer Meter burn

Night Shade

- Increase the Hit and Block Advantage

Up Rooted (D2)

- Decreased the start up from 16 to 11

Snap Trap (D1)

- Decreased the start up from 7 to 6

Mistletoe (U2)

- Fix the hit box to hit ducking opponents
 

Lokheit

Noob
Lol it’s useless more useless than bed of thorns
Yeah it looks like rather than buffing the worst special in the game by a long shot they added another useless one hoping quantity of terrible options would compensate the fact that you can't really use them for anything if you're trying to win.

Ivy is a hot mess when it comes to her moveset design and would need a serious overhaul and change in philosofy (she was presented by the devs as a zoner LOL). Half of her moveset is terrible or even works against her and her decent tools rely on gimmicks that can be worked around with matchup knowledge (Datura cancels are too risky and unsafe for the reward if opponent's knows what to do which makes the execution effort pointless and Puky can be worked around or ignored by most of the cast, not to mention the upclose setups can be destroyed with pushblock).

I've said this other times, I play Ivy because I really like the character but she's a pocket character for specific matchups at best, and with other characters doing better in those matchups and her execution level being one of the hardest in the game (at least top2, probably top1, even for the most basic stuff you need to press 1919384615 directional buttons for no reason at all and she has most of the "hard execution" ingredients like cancels and ultra tight links on top of that), she's not worth the required time to master her just to do "meh" on a couple of matchups.
 
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DavesHotnJuicy

jmack_215
Yeah it looks like rather than buffing the worst special in the game by a long shot they added another useless one hoping quantity of terrible options would compensate the fact that you can't really use them for anything if you're trying to win.

Ivy is a hot mess when it comes to her moveset design and would need a serious overhaul and change in philosofy (she was presented by the devs as a zoner LOL). Half of her moveset is terrible or even works against her and her decent tools rely on gimmicks that can be worked around with matchup knowledge (Datura cancels are too risky and unsafe for the reward if opponent's knows what to do which makes the execution effort pointless and Puky can be worked around or ignored by most of the cast, not to mention the upclose setups can be destroyed with pushblock).

I've said this other times, I play Ivy because I really like the character but she's a pocket character for specific matchups at best, and with other characters doing better in those matchups and her execution level being one of the hardest in the game (at least top2, probably top1, even for the most basic stuff you need to press 1919384615 directional buttons for no reason at all and she has most of the "hard execution" ingredients like cancels and ultra tight links on top of that), she's not worth the required time to master her just to do "meh" on a couple of matchups.
Yeah pushblock does her really dirty
 

myri

Time Warrior
DF2 really did nothing for her wake up game, you can beat it the exact same way you beat her DBF1. I use it for a couple of things beside that, to punish with d1~df2 for a bit of damage, to discourage counter pokes by doing d1~df2, for chip damage at the end of the round and for a damage ender if I have nightshade out already, so it has some small uses but is generally a garbage move. At least if you wakeup with DBF1 you can get a full combo for the bar.

Honestly, if they did remove DF2 I wouldn't care. I'm fine with her down 2 as is, if they sped it up again I would take that but it's not that bad as is, you can use it fine if you know the jump in is coming and her air to air game with her jump in 1 and 2 is pretty godlike so it's not all bad.

I would just love for thorns to be useful, anything else is quality of life stuff but just make thorns worth even inputting once and then I'll be happy. Improved recovery on trait call, bark skin and faster startup on drills would all be nice too but I don't know that we'll get that.

#MakeThornsDoSomething
 
Yeah it looks like rather than buffing the worst special in the game by a long shot they added another useless one hoping quantity of terrible options would compensate the fact that you can't really use them for anything if you're trying to win.

Ivy is a hot mess when it comes to her moveset design and would need a serious overhaul and change in philosofy (she was presented by the devs as a zoner LOL). Half of her moveset is terrible or even works against her and her decent tools rely on gimmicks that can be worked around with matchup knowledge (Datura cancels are too risky and unsafe for the reward if opponent's knows what to do which makes the execution effort pointless and Puky can be worked around or ignored by most of the cast, not to mention the upclose setups can be destroyed with pushblock).

I've said this other times, I play Ivy because I really like the character but she's a pocket character for specific matchups at best, and with other characters doing better in those matchups and her execution level being one of the hardest in the game (at least top2, probably top1, even for the most basic stuff you need to press 1919384615 directional buttons for no reason at all and she has most of the "hard execution" ingredients like cancels and ultra tight links on top of that), she's not worth the required time to master her just to do "meh" on a couple of matchups.
I just think the pheremone dust will allow her to restand the opponent while nightshade is up instead of getting knocked out of a grab. It will help with her defensive zoning and a anti air. It could combo off her d1. And a restand that actually had hit advantage. But it still wouldn’t be a powerful as the grab
 
DF2 really did nothing for her wake up game, you can beat it the exact same way you beat her DBF1. I use it for a couple of things beside that, to punish with d1~df2 for a bit of damage, to discourage counter pokes by doing d1~df2, for chip damage at the end of the round and for a damage ender if I have nightshade out already, so it has some small uses but is generally a garbage move. At least if you wakeup with DBF1 you can get a full combo for the bar.

Honestly, if they did remove DF2 I wouldn't care. I'm fine with her down 2 as is, if they sped it up again I would take that but it's not that bad as is, you can use it fine if you know the jump in is coming and her air to air game with her jump in 1 and 2 is pretty godlike so it's not all bad.

I would just love for thorns to be useful, anything else is quality of life stuff but just make thorns worth even inputting once and then I'll be happy. Improved recovery on trait call, bark skin and faster startup on drills would all be nice too but I don't know that we'll get that.

#MakeThornsDoSomething
I don’t think vine drill should be faster imagine the chip damage with nightshade if she could spam more drills than she already can. Trust me I hate how slow it is but at the same time I get why
 
Yeah it looks like rather than buffing the worst special in the game by a long shot they added another useless one hoping quantity of terrible options would compensate the fact that you can't really use them for anything if you're trying to win.

Ivy is a hot mess when it comes to her moveset design and would need a serious overhaul and change in philosofy (she was presented by the devs as a zoner LOL). Half of her moveset is terrible or even works against her and her decent tools rely on gimmicks that can be worked around with matchup knowledge (Datura cancels are too risky and unsafe for the reward if opponent's knows what to do which makes the execution effort pointless and Puky can be worked around or ignored by most of the cast, not to mention the upclose setups can be destroyed with pushblock).

I've said this other times, I play Ivy because I really like the character but she's a pocket character for specific matchups at best, and with other characters doing better in those matchups and her execution level being one of the hardest in the game (at least top2, probably top1, even for the most basic stuff you need to press 1919384615 directional buttons for no reason at all and she has most of the "hard execution" ingredients like cancels and ultra tight links on top of that), she's not worth the required time to master her just to do "meh" on a couple of matchups.
EXACTLY
 
Yeah it looks like rather than buffing the worst special in the game by a long shot they added another useless one hoping quantity of terrible options would compensate the fact that you can't really use them for anything if you're trying to win.

Ivy is a hot mess when it comes to her moveset design and would need a serious overhaul and change in philosofy (she was presented by the devs as a zoner LOL). Half of her moveset is terrible or even works against her and her decent tools rely on gimmicks that can be worked around with matchup knowledge (Datura cancels are too risky and unsafe for the reward if opponent's knows what to do which makes the execution effort pointless and Puky can be worked around or ignored by most of the cast, not to mention the upclose setups can be destroyed with pushblock).

I've said this other times, I play Ivy because I really like the character but she's a pocket character for specific matchups at best, and with other characters doing better in those matchups and her execution level being one of the hardest in the game (at least top2, probably top1, even for the most basic stuff you need to press 1919384615 directional buttons for no reason at all and she has most of the "hard execution" ingredients like cancels and ultra tight links on top of that), she's not worth the required time to master her just to do "meh" on a couple of matchups.
R you kidding me? "need a serious overhaul and change in philosofy (she was presented by the devs as a zoner LOL)." - she is great designed, her zoning is fine, vine drills are meant to put fear in opponent and outzone zoners, but not to spam, and ~180 chip dmg with yoshi+drills is god damn good, i don't want her zoning to become as brain dead as dr Fate or Starfire. And her move set is decent too. Walk speed - godlike, b2d2 - godlike, f3.... The thing is that Ivy is absolutely neutral based char, so to open some one you need to bait, condition them, overall - just over play your opponent.
Her normals are good, but sure, all Ivy specialists know what she really needs:
Usable AA
Better wake up game (dbf1 is still much better than df2, if it was safe at least....)
EX Yo-yo not only to be unbackdashable, but also not to push back opponents, since they can just punish you because last couple of hit do not connect (especially against CW and SG, don't know why)
And of course, NRS, please, give us a least 1 reason to use bed of thorns :(
 
Chompy and Bitey Bash has potential to be a good move, I propose that they inscrease the range of it
Slight damage increase
Slightly quicker start up
 
Just make her trait track like sinestros trait and faster. Would completely change superman and other hard matchups. So many characters don’t give two craps about her best tool.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Please watch it
I don't think those problems are directly due to hit and block advantage, rather they're because of the nature of the trait itself.
and i'm honestly so sure increased block advantage would just let her legit block infinite characters full screen.
 
I don't think those problems are directly due to hit and block advantage, rather they're because of the nature of the trait itself.
and i'm honestly so sure increased block advantage would just let her legit block infinite characters full screen.
It’s the block and hit advantage it changes the frame data to the block and hit advantage of the projectile .if it can create gaps in strings then clearly it doesn’t have a lot of either one... yeah and like her trait doesn’t already do that to opponents... so everyone should be allowed to counter nightshade at all times... so they can push block it away if you get too close but also counter zone you while nightshade is up if you do it from a distance...a trait that takes 51 frames to get out omg... sounds like a balanced trait
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
I don’t get why bitey bash is unsafe. Like...it’s so garbage lol you don’t get anything from it on hit, the damage is ass and you can’t even MB it. The least they can do is make it safe

Fate has a safe push that starts combos...
 

Jinxx

9 Lives
-Mb datura no longer has a gap in it
-vine drill start up from 24 to 19 frames
-Recovery on Trait and Barkskin from 30-35
-Bed of thorns useful
That's all
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
So why are we buffing literally everything on a not that terrible character? D2 buff in theory is like "Yea totally make her AAs better, this makes sense, her AAs are ass" but she is supposed to control the ground heavily so just giving her an 11f gigantic D2 seems...a bit much? I would buff her A2A game if anything, more commitment on her part but still solid.

Why are we giving her a completely new move that...just does the same thing as command grab? You want her to have a restanding move with the hitbox and startup of her super that restands? AND give her an 11f D2 on top of that? You see the issue here? She is clearly, VERY clearly, supposed to have lower quality AA options and while I agree theyre a bit too low quality you're turning her into a "you can never jump in on me ever" kind of character and when you have that+an actualy solid ground game you are creating an extremely unfun "I do everything" kind of character.

D1 speed is eh, she's a defensive/footsies character so a faster D1 could be in order.

The bed of thorns stopping jumps and dashes makes me want to vomit considering youre just asking for a better version of Swamp Thing's trait while also actually having good grounded buttons which essentially means, for not resource investment from you, you create a terrifying prison for a lot of characters.

Trait doesn't need any buffs it's literally the best thing she has lol.

All these changes by themselves is like whatever (except adding that new move, stop just stop on that one youre insane) but you smash them all at once on her you're going to be making a character everyone is going to fucking hate. She's not even that bad atm just up her A2A game, give her a better D1, tbh give her the ability to Datura off D1 or Drill off D1 and be done with it.