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Guide Pre-patch to post-patch trait damage comparison

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Just taking this down as a point of curiosity. Since DS is losing both active trait time as well as bullet damage after the patch, his potential overall damage gain will go down on unblockable bullets. This is intended only to address actual gun/zoning damage - he is likely to gain 132 setups that will enhance the use of his trait as an oki tool, but seeing as those are as of yet nonexistent, they can't be compared to a previous state.

This is based on absolutely optimal performance - what you can get if you manage to hit every bullet possible in the allotted time trait is active. Obviously, people will always attempt to escape the unblockable damage, but making a study of all of that is overly time consuming and ultimately questionably valuable, since it's based on good or bad decision making.

I am including both best possible metered damage and meterless damage for the sake of some completeness.

Some general damage numbers and information first (note that this applies to gun damage across the board, both blockable and unblockable pre-patch), with numbers taken as exactly as possible instead of read from the combo counter:
Quick Fire = 5.85%
MB Quick Fire = 15.89%
Low Shots = 5.85%
MB Low Shots = 11.13%
Machine Gun = 13.57%
MB Machine Gun = 17.44%
Second hit in 132 = 5% first hit, 4.75% in combo
Third hit of 231 = 7% first hit, 6.32%

Every bullet on each gun does 3% damage exactly, with the next bullet scaling by 95% of the previous hit's damage. The bullet damage for the strings is set independently, but the scaling rules are the same. The primary factor in damage is merely number of bullets fired. Grenades do 5% damage, following the same scaling algorithm and normally doing 3.87% damage as the sixth hit in meter burn machine gun. It inflicts slightly more if some hits miss. It is currently unknown whether grenade damage will be affected by new scaling or cap rules post patch, however, grenades currently are always unaffected by the condition of Deathstroke's trait.

The machine gun meter burn grenade will combo as long as at least the second shot of the machine gun hits. This allows part of the unblockable damage to miss and an opportunity to potentially maximize damage with a meter burn grenade during the debuff period.

The best possible damage versus time investment is always quick fire. Although machine gun turns over more per use on a meter burn, it's also much, much slower and the meter burn grenade knocks down and wastes trait time. It can be used, but is only useful at the end of the timer for maximizing damage due to debuff state grenade.

Pre-patch best possible:
Meterless: 5 quick fires (a machine gun can be exchanged in place of the last quick fire and meterburned for an extra 4.51% during debuff), 29.25%/33.76%
Metered: 2 MB quick fires + MB machine gun, 49.22%

Post Patch update:
Gun damage now does exactly half of the default damage while trait is active, with each bullet scaling as normal. Rounding errors aside, every gun move does half the damage it would normally do under trait. This does not apply to the bullets in 132, 231, or to meter burn grenade, which still scale as normal but do not receive additional scaling via trait. Timings have not changed, but since meter burn grenades still do full damage their value has increased versus something like quick fire - the knockdown still makes them a poor choice except at the end of trait though, since one meter burn rifle will use up your entire trait timer.

Post-patch best possible:
Meterless: 2 quick fires + machine gun, 7.11% (11.4% with meter burn grenade)
Metered: MB quick fire + MB machine gun, 18.59%
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Why are we comparing high damage we could never setup to lower damage we can now reliably setup.
I know you don't agree with me that Deathstroke took a huge hit on this patch, but I'm not the one being hostile over it. I know you're enjoying chasing me around trying to make me look "wrong," but basically all you're succeeding in doing is making yourself look small, petty, and obsessive.

I didn't include anything about 132 setups here because the damage won't be changing and his new setups will have to be found. I think they're going to be by far the best use of his trait post-patch. However, knowing how much he can get outside a combo setup situation will help inform people on when the best times to use his trait and what the best situations for it are. The direct comparison part is primarily for curiosity value, because I know at least I was wondering about how big of a difference it will make and I figured others might be too.

Your childishness did compel to me check on the bullet damage of his two strings that use guns as well, since they are affected by trait and will likely take adjustments under new rules in the patch, likely slightly reducing the overall damage available off a 132 combo.
 

haketh

Noob
Your childishness did compel to me check on the bullet damage of his two strings that use guns as well, since they are affected by trait and will likely take adjustments under new rules in the patch, likely slightly reducing the overall damage available off a 132 combo.
Don't worry, realized how much of a bitch nigga I've been so I'm dropping, it's all copasetic now.

Trying to remeber, does 132 get the hitbox increase in trait like high guns do?
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
The gunshot in 132 is a natural mid hit, so it can't really be avoided anyways. 231 does get that benefit, though it remains questionably useful regardless.
 

haketh

Noob
I've had 132 whiff on some of the smaller characters like Catwoman, might have been a stance specific thing.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
I've had 132 whiff on some of the smaller characters like Catwoman, might have been a stance specific thing.
Very likely. But Catwoman, Wonder Woman and Flash off the top of my head, are characters with moves that can cause mids to whiff. I actually just checked Wonder Woman out of curiosity and discovered she can sweep under the second hit of 132 - obnoxious, but not useful. Trait is really still going to be confined to oki setups anyways, so it'll be about baiting wakeups more than anything. Not sure how many people have shit that could just completely get them out of a 132 oki setup.
 

Nonameformedude

That Yung Big Body
I remember a time when you told me to "get out" because I mentioned that trait wasnt useless, and had a safe on most of the cast set up to an unblockable string that had to be push blocked right out of his BnB. Now that his trait has been nerfed the threads on how to use his trait start to pop up. This is a sad sad forum
 
I remember a time when you told me to "get out" because I mentioned that trait wasnt useless, and had a safe on most of the cast set up to an unblockable string that had to be push blocked right out of his BnB. Now that his trait has been nerfed the threads on how to use his trait start to pop up. This is a sad sad forum
Problem is trait was useless pre-patch.
 

Nonameformedude

That Yung Big Body
Problem is trait was useless pre-patch.
Problem is scrubby DS players thought that sacrificing some damage in their bnb to get trait out safely off of d2 was a bad thing. Problem is his trait now has a 100% longer cooldown and last almost half as long while doing less damage with each shot you actually get out. Problem is with all this new(old)stuff with using his strings that have gunshots in them to create unblockable strings can get pushblocked on the first hit and woops, now you are on cooldown. Problem is now his trait really is useless. *Started from the bottom plays in the background*
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
I remember a time when you told me to "get out" because I mentioned that trait wasnt useless, and had a safe on most of the cast set up to an unblockable string that had to be push blocked right out of his BnB. Now that his trait has been nerfed the threads on how to use his trait start to pop up. This is a sad sad forum
And my personal opinion is that his trait is even more useless now, when it was already trash. The fact that people keep trying to insert their biases into my first post makes me feel confident that I kept it objective.

Updates later.
 
Problem is scrubby DS players thought that sacrificing some damage in their bnb to get trait out safely off of d2 was a bad thing. Problem is his trait now has a 100% longer cooldown and last almost half as long while doing less damage with each shot you actually get out. Problem is with all this new(old)stuff with using his strings that have gunshots in them to create unblockable strings can get pushblocked on the first hit and woops, now you are on cooldown. Problem is now his trait really is useless. *Started from the bottom plays in the background*
Sacrificing damage for trait set ups pre patch wasn't even an option, why do that when sword flip sends your opponent 3/4 of the screen, HKD and gives good hit advantage.
 

Nonameformedude

That Yung Big Body
And my personal opinion is that his trait is even more useless now, when it was already trash. The fact that people keep trying to insert their biases into my first post makes me feel confident that I kept it objective.

Updates later.
You are objective now, lol. Bruh you didnt make a post about the trait pre patch, you just completely ignored what it did and tried to make me look foolish when I explained the very real benefit it had prepatch. I commented on this post because you, and the entire DS forum tbh, are just funny for suddenly wanting to use/think about trait when its been nerfed out the ass(most of you guys think it was buffed, thats even funnier). In the original post you claimed that rushdown setups with trait were nonexsitant when I gave the set up my DS sparing partner made away, but "no his trait is useless so we would never put it on anyway, especially not if we must sacrifice 10-15%." When Clint won that match over Blacula at TFC by using trait to end the match-watching the stream chat blow up was the most hilarious moment in my injustice life, second to seeing these posts about his trait pop up.

Sacrificing damage for trait set ups pre patch wasn't even an option, why do that when sword sends your opponent 3/4 of the screen, HKD and good hit advantage.
Because when your trait set up worked it did 50%. If your opponent doesnt anti air your jump in or pushblock the start of your string it was an unblockable way back into your BnB. Or ya know, just backdash and unblockably zone. If you got 20% off the trait set up and then get back into your bnb you just did 50%(You also got a little extra corner carry while ending the same way as you normally would). If you got 20% off your trait set up then start your unblockable zoning you could get 40%(possibly more, I cant remember how much I got hit for when he read me and zoned because hes been playing batman ever since he heard about the nerf). Regardless of all that how the entire forum could just eliminate a threat like unblockable fucking bullets from their game with a character that has great zoning as well as rushdown with trait on because it sacrificed 10-15% damage is just sad. Funny is that they want to use it now that its booty sweat. *Started from the bottom finishes playing in the background*
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
You are objective now, lol. Bruh you didnt make a post about the trait pre patch, you just completely ignored what it did and tried to make me look foolish when I explained the very real benefit it had prepatch. I commented on this post because you, and the entire DS forum tbh, are just funny for suddenly wanting to use/think about trait when its been nerfed out the ass(most of you guys think it was buffed, thats even funnier). In the original post you claimed that rushdown setups with trait were nonexsitant when I gave the set up my DS sparing partner made away, but "no his trait is useless so we would never put it on anyway, especially not if we must sacrifice 10-15%." When Clint won that match over Blacula at TFC by using trait to end the match-watching the stream chat blow up was the most hilarious moment in my injustice life, second to seeing these posts about his trait pop up.
My posts were probably more in tune to "why would you ever give up the guaranteed damage and an oki setup?" Which is even more true now, really. Trait had potential use for finishing a match with unclashable damage, yeah. All it was really good for...