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Breakthrough - Warrior Potential Warrior Bug That Hurts The Varation

Do you think is a bug?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 32 86.5%
  • No.

    Votes: 5 13.5%

  • Total voters
    37

REO

Undead
Hey, everyone. So this was briefly mentioned in a thread I made the other day regarding some potential Warrior fixes. (you can read more about that here) But I think this deserves it's own thread since it's a pretty crucial downfall to an already weak variation.

We all know about the Self Destruct special move in Warrior. It's what makes Warrior fun to play as, very hype to watch, and overall is the core game aspect of Warrior. It even pays tribute to Predator from the movies and does it a ton a justice. Seems like a win win in every direction, right? Except there's one big concern that I feel will damage and bring this variation down in the long run. It's something that will leave Warrior players with a bad taste in their mouth once they've experienced it in real match play, much like how the meter drain glitch did in MK9.

Below are two videos showcasing this flaw:





What you see above is not only the explosion visually coming out along with the sound cues signifying the move has completed it's start up, but that Predator ALSO takes the inflicted damage from Self Destruct which should only happen when the attack blows up. Which it rightfully did. So this leads me to my next question. Is this a possible bug or functioning by design? It may very well be an unknown bug, but you never know so it's always best to ask just to make sure. I have a few theories behind this move. The first theory is that It's possible that the move is programmed not to trade, which doesn't make sense. But then again, Hish-Qu-Ten lasers are also programmed the same exact way. Below you can see a video of this proof. (perhaps this is also a bug?)




The second theory I have is maybe both the animation of the attack and the 10% self damage infliction take place BEFORE the hitbox does. This makes sense and could possibly be what is causing the issue here. If this is how it's designed then I believe it should be changed to have the hitbox become active as the same exact frame the explosion takes place. And have Predator lose the 10% health the same frame as everything else is going on, or immediately AFTER on the next possible frame.

The final theory, while a bit random and a bit out reach could be maybe the MK9 no trade implementation wasn't flagged for some of Predator moves and left intact unintentionally during his early design. This along with the fact that every other character in the game has trade implemented into all of their attacks causes the other characters to ALWAYS win in the confrontation because it acts as the old Player 1 advantage in MK9. I have no other explanation otherwise as to why some of Predator's attacks are designed to have their hitbox mysteriously vanish on trade.



Anyway, if this is functioning by design, I think the best way to balance this would be to make the hitbox on Self-Destruct become active on the same exact frame the explosion animation occurs or when Predator takes damage from the self destruction. Otherwise it is not fair to have Warrior's core design function in such a diminishing way. Working to set up Self-Destruct set-ups and losing 10% of your health when the explosion goes off just to see the hitbox was negates by a poke is a total buzz and hype kill.


What are you guys thoughts on this? Post here and discuss.
 

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
I always wondered this when it came to my low laser not coming out on trades. Probably a bug.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
But what about the +15 on block, combo counter reset factor?
Isn't that still worth it? Ya know, to get that potentially OHKO or just get those free 50/50s?
 

REO

Undead
Reo you must get so sad picking these horrible but potentially super cool variations and finding out how much of a complete mess they are, but I really appreciate the work you put into potentially being the individual who gets them fixed.
Thanks, man! There's so many cool variations in this game that are so close to becoming good with just a few tweaks or changes.

But what about the +15 on block, combo counter reset factor?
Isn't that still worth it? Ya know, to get that potentially OHKO or just get those free 50/50s?
What do you mean exactly?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
What do you mean exactly?
Certain strings (like his... I think f.2 2 d.2? The one with the sharp stick that ends in the HKD)
If you have the right timing, it'll restand them and be massively + on block, or if they don't realize whats happening, it'll bounce them and reset the combo counter.
I'll try to make you a video if you need me to showcasing just what I'm referring to.

^ on block

^ on hit, as you can see the combo counter reset.

This is just an example, but you can see what I mean.
@YOMI REO
 
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EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
I always wondered this when it came to my low laser not coming out on trades. Probably a bug.
Same thing happens with Takedas Kunai.

If d1 xx close kunai gets interrupted by someone's d1, the kunai sometimes won't hit, but the animation will occur.
 

REO

Undead
Certain strings (like his... I think f.2 2 d.2? The one with the sharp stick that ends in the HKD)
If you have the right timing, it'll restand them and be massively + on block, or if they don't realize whats happening, it'll bounce them and reset the combo counter.
I'll try to make you a video if you need me to showcasing just what I'm referring to.
I see what you mean but I'm not sure what you're trying to present. While the string is solid, the set up you're describing is a bet gimmicky as they could just poke out in between B+2,2,D+2 since it has a 9 frame gap before the last hit. They could also armor out or backdash. And if worse comes to worse, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to just block. Warrior's Self-Destruct is +10 on block I believe, not +15. And it pushes the opponent too far to do anything on block afterwards except for his D+4. But you're right, it would probably hit someone once or twice that isn't familiar at all with Warrior.
Same thing happens with Takedas Kunai.

If d1 xx close kunai gets interrupted by someone's d1, the kunai sometimes won't hit, but the animation will occur.
I didn't know this. That's good to know.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I see what you mean but I'm not sure what you're trying to present. While the string is solid, the set up you're describing is a bet gimmicky as they could just poke out in between B+2,2,D+2 since it has a 9 frame gap before the last hit. They could also armor our or backdash. And if worse comes to worse, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to just block. Warrior's Self-Destruct is +10 on block I believe, not +15. And it pushes the opponent too far to do anything on block afterwards except for his D+4. But you're right, it would probably hit someone once or twice that isn't familiar at all with Warrior.

I didn't know this. That's good to know.
Its just an example since b.2 2 d.2 is the easiest to get the timing with. I'm pretty sure there are other strings that it works with. Also, the blast nullifies breakers. Meaning if you land something like b.22 and you explode, even if the opponent tried to break the second hit of the string they wouldn't be able to. There's also more that I could go into.
 

REO

Undead
Its just an example since b.2 2 d.2 is the easiest to get the timing with. I'm pretty sure there are other strings that it works with. Also, the blast nullifies breakers. Meaning if you land something like b.22 and you explode, even if the opponent tried to break the second hit of the string they wouldn't be able to. There's also more that I could go into.
Yeah, the explosion is unbreakable just like Predator's smart disc. Keep in mind Warrior's Self-Destruct also goes away if someone breaks one of his attacks.

So are you maybe insinuating the possible bug in the thread shouldn't be fixed or left alone because Warrior has tech like this? Sorry, I'm still kind of confused as to what you're getting at, lol. The problem with Warrior was never the issue with his Self-Destruct when it's out, it's how difficult it is to get out in many match ups without sacrificing and the extreme lack of perks this variation offers compared to his other two.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yeah, the explosion is unbreakable just like Predator's smart disc. Keep in mind Warrior's Self-Destruct also goes away if someone breaks one of his attacks.

So are you maybe insinuating the possible bug in the thread shouldn't be fixed or left alone because Warrior has tech like this? Sorry, I'm still kind of confused as to what you're getting at, lol. The problem with Warrior was never the issue with his Self-Destruct when it's out, it's how difficult it is to get out in many match ups without sacrificing and the extreme lack of perks this variation offers compared to his other two.
Well I mean what I'm saying is the explosion overrides other moves, but its all a matter of move priority. Assuming every move has a unit from 1 to 10, explosion would be about a 4 or so when active, since it removes you from almost every move through means of self-damage but still takes a back seat to moves like uppercut when the game is looking for breakers.

So if a move with low priority were to be paired with it (say the second hit of b.22) the explosion overrides it, hence why the breaker won't work despite both hits of b.22 connecting.

However, in the case of you blocking, the move loses priority, meaning any other move with active frames will override it.

So like if you blocked Sub Zero's slide on wake-up, his active frames would take priority over your explosion frames because you are blocking, and the game doesn't define blocking as an active frame.
The moment those frames wear off, he is as good as launched. However, in the moment of him hitting you, you'll be stuck and unable to hit him back. The move still liberally removes 10% from your own health, however.

This is what the testing was mainly for. The videos showed that the explosion functions as a separate move, both causing a restand and forced-block or a counter reset. This means the move doesn't connect as part of the combo, and functions independently. Thus, I could surmise that since it overrode certain moves, allowing for unbreakable strings like b.22 into the explosion, that the game has to chose one or the other to take up that frame, and sort of... pushes the other one aside?
Rather it doesn't register it. It'll register the explosion as a move if Predator is in a neutral state (say, after b.2 2 d.2 and the opponent is moving towards the ground) and the opponent isn't defined by the game as downed.

Thats what I'm getting at least from it. I know explosion itself is unbreakable, but b.22 and explosion into the second hit of b.22 normally are not, only when the explosion and the second hit are at the same time does it act this way.

Like it does need to be fixed, but its just a matter of the fact that you being in blockstun even for a frame of it going off makes it whiff because the game considers your opponent's active frames to be your inactive frames.
 
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vegeta

Saiyan Prince
How bad is this variation compared to the grand scheme of things anyway? I mean I'm just a predator fan and on announcement I wanted to play HQT first but try and eventually use all of them. Turns out I found pretty damaging stuff the fastest one night in the lab with warrior and though it was all cool, using it in actual battle was rough. Is warrior predator like jason tier? I've always had interest in it but the way this game is it's like "why should I struggle" when his other variants are far above this one as far as tools and tactics.
 

REO

Undead
Well I mean what I'm saying is the explosion overrides other moves, but its all a matter of move priority. Assuming every move has a unit from 1 to 10, explosion would be about a 4 or so when active, since it removes you from almost every move through means of self-damage but still takes a back seat to moves like uppercut when the game is looking for breakers.

So if a move with low priority were to be paired with it (say the second hit of b.22) the explosion overrides it, hence why the breaker won't work despite both hits of b.22 connecting.

However, in the case of you blocking, the move loses priority, meaning any other move with active frames will override it.

So like if you blocked Sub Zero's slide on wake-up, his active frames would take priority over your explosion frames because you are blocking, and the game doesn't define blocking as an active frame.
The moment those frames wear off, he is as good as launched. However, in the moment of him hitting you, you'll be stuck and unable to hit him back. The move still liberally removes 10% from your own health, however.

This is what the testing was mainly for. The videos showed that the explosion functions as a separate move, both causing a restand and forced-block or a counter reset. This means the move doesn't connect as part of the combo, and functions independently. Thus, I could surmise that since it overrode certain moves, allowing for unbreakable strings like b.22 into the explosion, that the game has to chose one or the other to take up that frame, and sort of... pushes the other one aside?
Rather it doesn't register it.

Thats what I'm getting at least from it. I know explosion itself is unbreakable, but b.22 and explosion into the second hit of b.22 normally are not, only when the explosion and the second hit are at the same time does it act this way.
Th explosion does connect as part of a combo off strings or normals, though. What's happening with the B+2,2,D+2 situation is during the last hit of the string, there are a few frames of vulnerability where the opponent is susceptible to being attacked after he's hit before he reaches his wake-up invulnerability frames. This scenario cannot be achieved in any other way but by the Self-Destruct which is why it happens.

Also the first two hits of B+2,2 are never unbreakable if you do the full two hit string even with Self-Destruct on. Either the first part in B+2 will hit them and then the explosion from Self-Destruct will launch them or they will break the second part of B+2,2 if they were hit by the first part BEFORE the explosion even occurs.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Th explosion does connect as part of a combo off strings or normals, though. What's happening with the B+2,2,D+2 situation is during the last hit of the string, there are a few frames of vulnerability where the opponent is susceptible to being attacked after he's hit before he reaches his wake-up invulnerability frames. This scenario cannot be achieved in any other way but by the Self-Destruct which is why it happens.

Also the first two hits of B+2,2 are never unbreakable if you do the full two hit string even with Self-Destruct on. Either the first part in B+2 will hit them and then the explosion from Self-Destruct will launch them or they will break the second part of B+2,2 if they were hit by the first BEFORE the explosion even occurs.
I mean it does but when the game is deciding which move connects, usually the explosion takes priority, hence why you can't say... hit them with a scimitar stab and then explode but keep them there. It combos, but like not in the way combo strings usually do. Its hard to define, but a similar thing happens with Torr's charge where it'll reset the counter and stuff. Also that doesn't explain why they can block, since if they are being hit in this juggle state wouldn't they just get... well, juggled?

Also I was just getting it to hit with all 3. It would explain the issue on block and stuff. Hmm... :/
 

REO

Undead
I mean it does but when the game is deciding which move connects, usually the explosion takes priority, hence why you can't say... hit them with a scimitar stab and then explode but keep them there. It combos, but like not in the way combo strings usually do. Its hard to define, but a similar thing happens with Torr's charge where it'll reset the counter and stuff. Also that doesn't explain why they can block, since if they are being hit in this juggle state wouldn't they just get... well, juggled?

Also I was just getting it to hit with all 3. It would explain the issue on block and stuff. Hmm... :/
That's because the last hit of B+2,2,D+2 is programmed to not allow follow ups after. It's the same reason why attacks like D+4s don't lead to combos even though the advantage says they should.

Also even if you were to just perfectly time it to the frame, Self-Destruct does not work on the same frame that you HIT them with an attack or they block an attack.

Example:
 
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Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
Yet another insanely infuriating aspect to warrior predator. Its really unfortunate too because he is undoubtedly one of the coolest and hypest characters in the game. Much respect to you for putting in the time to figure out this variations nuances. I gave up on him months ago, hes just a fun alt for me now.

He needs a lot of fixes/buffs.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
That's because the last hit of B+2,2,D+2 is programmed to not allow follow ups after. It's the same reason why attacks like D+4s don't lead to combos even though the advantage says they should.

Also even if you were to just perfectly time it to the frame, Self-Destruct does not work on the same frame that you HIT them with an attack or they block an attack.

Example:
Weird. I'm gonna go follow your stream though.
 
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