Possible changes to make Deadshot viable again

[Insomniac FGC]

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts about what could be feasibly changed to Deadshot to make him a decent character again.

One of Deadshot's biggest weaknesses even before the November patch was his inability to get decent damage outside of the corner without a background bounce. Other than adjusting his frames, I feel like a possible change to help Deadshot out would be to have Assassin Knee launch for a combo like it did prior to his release. Having the ability to convert any standing string into a full combo would go a long way in making Deadshot a good character again.

One argument against this possible change is that it would make Deadshot too powerful. Having a safe MB move that can launch from a 50/50 sounds pretty broken on paper. What do you think? Do you have any other suggestions on how to improve the character?

 

[Invincible Salads]

Either better damage, or better frames or improve his zoning, preferably thru trait. Honestly I think activating trait should give him better recovery and or startup on his shots across the board, with the 3 modes still having there own perks, fire should increase the chip a bit more too. Doing this would make him more like he used to be, but it'd be more balanced because he would only have short bursts of hard zoning. And with that leave his damage alone, but make his staggers slightly better, like make the animation of b12 come out a bit smoother after b1, maybe recover better

 

[Dogeofthesea]

With trait on his bullets make the opponent float in the air higher, allowing follow up combos for example (like how Green Arrow's lightning arrow works).

Having a safe MB move that can launch from a 50/50 sounds pretty broken on paper

Then make his F2 hit mid if MB knee launches. Remove his 50/50
By the way, Firestorm has a plus on block MB launcher that can connect with a B3/F3. The non MB version is safe on block. How is that balanced?

 

[M2Dave]

What do you think? Do you have any other suggestions on how to improve the character?

I think the character will get no improvements so making any suggestions is a waste of time. The manner in which he was normalized and ignored in the most recent patch demonstrates that NRS is either incompetent, careless, or both.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I think the character will get no improvements so making any suggestions is a waste of time. The manner in which he was normalized and ignored in the most recent patch demonstrates that NRS is either incompetent, careless, or both.

Or that nobody's suggested a good enough change for him yet. Maybe you can make the difference.

 

[Wigy]

Or that nobody's suggested a good enough change for him yet. Maybe you can make the difference.

Paulo isn’t sat on tym waiting for our glorious community to explain to him what to do.

 

[neveradestroyer]

Make his db1 as fast it was pre-patch while on trait... That and while on trait all of the bullets and I meant all of them get the trait buff... even the strings ... That's all He needs.

 

[Skedar70]

They usually never revert any changes made to a character like they don't want to admit they were wrong. I think his straight shot should go back to how it was and that is it, he should still build no meter for it though. He was supposed to be a zoner.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Paulo isn’t sat on tym waiting for our glorious community to explain to him what to do.

Obviously not. But the way some people talk on here, really make it seem like they'd know more than he does about the game.

 

[Jaku2011]

I've always liked the idea of trait giving him his old zoning. maybe make medium AA trick shot combo into straight shot, or close AA trick shot combo into f1 (it doesn't right? I haven't played in almost 2 months)

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Make him more like Deathstroke.
Make him a hybrid, because his old zoning ain't never coming back.

Three things.

Make the U3 in B12U3 launch the opponent close enough/long enough for a follow up, like the old B1U2.
Add a MB to the end of B12D3 that launches for a follow-up.
Buff the BF3 (which i call the Kinshasa because Assassin' Knee just makes me think of the Bronze Kneecap) and increase the amount of screen its active in, so the man doesnt go flying over people like a dumbass.
Sword Flip was unsafe, but at least it wouldn't completely miss.

Reasonable list, I think.
B12 is already his go-to starter, at least like this he'd have options other than knock them away for next to no damage to outrange them with zoning that barely works.

 

[protools27]

I would revert him back to pre patch, then just apply the meter gain on straight shot nerf, and make his wake up uninvincible like black Adams.

My issue with dead shot was that he gained to much meter, so he could almost push block at will, and that after you finally navigated through his zoning, he could wake up pretty freely especially with meter.

 

[STB BroZki]

Either better damage, or better frames or improve his zoning, preferably thru trait. Honestly I think activating trait should give him better recovery and or startup on his shots across the board, with the 3 modes still having there own perks, fire should increase the chip a bit more too. Doing this would make him more like he used to be, but it'd be more balanced because he would only have short bursts of hard zoning. And with that leave his damage alone, but make his staggers slightly better, like make the animation of b12 come out a bit smoother after b1, maybe recover better

I really like this idea.

 

[Cursa]

Just get some middle ground between where he is and where he was before in terms of wrist cannon recovery and change trait up a bit. Blue bullets always felt way safer compared to the other two.

His meter gain was his major problem imo. MB rifle pushback was good and did great chip, had meter for push block all the time. I forget the recovery, from lack of ever playing him, of MB knee but I thought it was safe when MB so he pretty much had a safe nearly fully invincible wakeup (1 frame of vulnerable frames IIRC).

Although I'm in the boat saying that I don't think he's going to get a change. I'd also rather get Grodd/Raiden/Cold buffed before Deadshot as well

 

[Insomniac FGC]

I'm in the boat saying that I don't think he's going to get a change.

That's a sad and very real possibility. It's rather shocking how a change to wrist cannon was all it took for Deadshot to go from top 3 to bottom 3.

 

[ForeverKlone]

I'd love to have the launching knee. My point: make it either has a small gap (not as freakishly big as robin's dp) or remove the overhead of b12's second hit. Making f2 which is a short range normals already to become a mid could damage him more. He's gotta have something up close. Like at least better normals or just keep his mixups (not the pre patch -1 on block stuff)

 

[Invincible Salads]

no launching knee's forget that.

 

[Insomniac FGC]

no launching knee's forget that.

I know that it's wishful thinking. I just wish that Deadshot's zoning wasn't hurt to the point that he gets zoned out by Blue Beetle of all characters.

 

[Cursa]

Isn't it just a matter of putting his zoning somewhere between where it is now and where it was before?

Like excuse the ignorance but isn't it really just a matter of making a zoning character able to zone effectively?

 

[Insomniac FGC]

Like excuse the ignorance but isn't it really just a matter of making a zoning character able to zone effectively?

I've had gripes with trick shot even before the nerfs. The risk vs reward for anti airing with trick shot is hella skewed against him. The optimal conversion after an anti air trick shot is to follow up with a far trick shot. If Deadshot misses...well that's a clean jump in followed up by a full combo.

I remember on the Atom Watchtower stream. 16Bit mentioned that Atom is a low damage character and I was thinking to myself "WHY DOES HE OUTDAMAGE DEADSHOT???"

 

[Cursa]

I've had gripes with trick shot even before the nerfs. The risk vs reward for anti airing with trick shot is hella skewed against him. The optimal conversion after an anti air trick shot is to follow up with a far trick shot. If Deadshot misses...well that's a clean jump in followed up by a full combo.

I remember on the Atom Watchtower stream. 16Bit mentioned that Atom is a low damage character and I was thinking to myself "WHY DOES HE OUTDAMAGE DEADSHOT???"

I'm referring to all the stuff about changing his normals. He needs changes to his specials, specifically the zoning ones, which is all but 1 of them. His normals seem fine imo for a character who's meant to zone.

Can't say much about trick shot since I didn't play the character but IA wrist cannon was a good tool imo for anti-airing at longer ranges, and was relatively unpunishable. Anti-airing at close range was a problem for Deadshot but you could always try to J1 which was a 5 frame jump in with a really good hitbox.

 

[jcbowie]

His normals seem fine imo for a character who's meant to zone.

This is the most important principle in changing Deadshot, imo. People keep saying stuff like "just make his 50/50's better and build the character around that," but I think it's dumb for a character called "Deadshot" whose canonical gimmick is being able to shoot pretty well and already has terrible combo damage in-game to be a 50/50 guy. If they mess with his normals in any way it should basically just be to make them a little less safe.

I would undo the frame change to straight shot and keep the meter-build nerf, nerf the meter build of his other zoning specials very very slightly, make AK not invincible on wakeup and more unsafe, make AK MB minimum of -6 on block, give him a few frames slower d1 so he can't mash it out of pressure (like they did with SG), and give all of his buttons and string enders universally a few more recovery frames. Then you have a great zoner who can shut down the game's other zoners as well as keep out rushdown very effectively, but struggles up close defensively and is forced into risky situations when trying to escape pressure with his mixups.

Also, ideally, find a use for db2. I often forget that db2 exists, I don't really think there's a compelling reason to use it outside of ending certain trait combos or using the MB for unclashable damage as it exists now.

 

[Cursa]

I would change his frame data to being better but not the same as before, still slightly slower, and then maybe get rid of his B2 as an overhead and make it mid or something. Maybe give him something else to compensate if that's too much but raw 50/50s on a zoner kind of annoy me, unsafe or not. Maybe give him slightly better stagger pressure on B1 if you take away B2's overhead.

His previous frame data was what allowed him to basically win every zoning war, so I'd prefer it so that it's better but not the same so that other zoners at least can compete at fullscreen.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I would change his frame data to being better but not the same as before, still slightly slower, and then maybe get rid of his B2 as an overhead and make it mid or something. Maybe give him something else to compensate if that's too much but raw 50/50s on a zoner kind of annoy me, unsafe or not. Maybe give him slightly better stagger pressure on B1 if you take away B2's overhead.

His previous frame data was what allowed him to basically win every zoning war, so I'd prefer it so that it's better but not the same so that other zoners at least can compete at fullscreen.

i still say that his trait giving him access to the hard zoning would be the best route, keeping his low damage and slight improvements to staggerability of his main string

 

[Cursa]

Or trait changes, yes. I just don't want him to go back to beating every zoner in the game for free.