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Poking, I need help.

Ok so I play Jade. I've never fully understood the poking system. I get the Down 1 is usually the fastest attack you can do when someone is up close and can interrupt a slow combo. I also see players doing it after a combo string hoping players block a little to long and they can get the poke in first and steal back their turn. When scorpion teleports at me for example.....if i keep throwing he will just start to uppercut me. If i try to do a combo it has to start with a mid or he can uppercut me and it has to be fast enough or he can just poke me out of it. If I poke first though with down one im to sure what to do next. I always get confused. People talk about block stun which i assume you get if you keep poking several times in a row. I never seem to be able to poke with down 1 then go right into a combo like I see people doing. Sometimes I poke twice then go into Parry and catch them if im lucky. Can someone please explain to me how it all works......do you have to poke once without them blocking then go into combo? If you poke more then once will it become their turn to combo you? As i said I dont fully understand it but know the basic and see people doing it all the time when I play. Any tips specifically to so with Jade would also be much appreciated. I think her back 343 is her fasted mid combo....I know 212 starts with a high.....should I be using back 343 to punish someone .....like after a teleport?
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Ok so I play Jade. I've never fully understood the poking system. I get the Down 1 is usually the fastest attack you can do when someone is up close and can interrupt a slow combo. I also see players doing it after a combo string hoping players block a little to long and they can get the poke in first and steal back their turn. When scorpion teleports at me for example.....if i keep throwing he will just start to uppercut me. If i try to do a combo it has to start with a mid or he can uppercut me and it has to be fast enough or he can just poke me out of it. If I poke first though with down one im to sure what to do next. I always get confused. People talk about block stun which i assume you get if you keep poking several times in a row. I never seem to be able to poke with down 1 then go right into a combo like I see people doing. Sometimes I poke twice then go into Parry and catch them if im lucky. Can someone please explain to me how it all works......do you have to poke once without them blocking then go into combo? If you poke more then once will it become their turn to combo you? As i said I dont fully understand it but know the basic and see people doing it all the time when I play. Any tips specifically to so with Jade would also be much appreciated. I think her back 343 is her fasted mid combo....I know 212 starts with a high.....should I be using back 343 to punish someone .....like after a teleport?
This is not one problem you're having but a set of problems. I'll break it down to you point by point. Or try.
Let me preface all of this by saying Jade is trash and you shouldn't feel bad. Her d1 is t-rex as fuck and b3 gets lowprofiled by d1 regularly online.

Ok so I play Jade. I've never fully understood the poking system.
Under normal circumstances (not a laggy ass match) pokes are negative on block so if you blocked a poke, you can poke back or start a fast mid.
If you hit with a poke, you have a 2 frame window to land a standing 1 or a back 3 and start your offense.
Throws also beat out pokes so you can literally just mash throw if someone mashes d1, you'll often win out if you are at a range where its speed does not beat out your throw.

I get the Down 1 is usually the fastest attack you can do when someone is up close and can interrupt a slow combo. I also see players doing it after a combo string hoping players block a little to long and they can get the poke in first and steal back their turn.
What D1 does is it beats out moves that start up slower than the D1 itself.
Remember, if you block one, you have to be quick to input your b3.

When scorpion teleports at me for example.....if i keep throwing he will just start to uppercut me. If i try to do a combo it has to start with a mid or he can uppercut me and it has to be fast enough or he can just poke me out of it.
Scorpion can teleport and cancel it at a distance where your pokes won't reach him, in the Reborn variation. Otherwise his teleport is so slow that you can do d3, b3-meterburn glaive and gain massive frame advantage to start your offense, which is typically a forward throw, backward throw, another b3 with whatever you follow it into, or you can try to psyche him with f2 or f3 but f2 is unsafe so be careful.

The mindgame with throws and uppercuts is that you throw if someone blocks too much or mashes downpokes too much, and you uppercut if someone throws too much, and you use your mid (b3 or b1 more rarely if you have the range) if someone uppercuts too much. Jade is good at playing this game because b3 is 11 frames so it's very fast, and her uppercut beats out mids if spaced and timed right.

If I poke first though with down one im to sure what to do next. I always get confused.
Your 3 pokes have different ranges but their followup is typically the same thing. b3434, b343, b3, b3-glaive, b343-glaive, b3-butterfly, b343-butterfly, b3-throw, b343-throw. Remember that only meterburn glaive is safe on block and even that can get you uppercutted so remember to stagger b3 and shimmy a bit. This means that you do a b3, then move away if they blocked it then start another b3 shenanigan.

should I be using back 343 to punish someone .....like after a teleport?
You can do b3-glaive as a punish, sure. Check the frame data on things you block to see what you can punish and learn what you can punish it with. If something is -7 on block and all you can do is d1, do it, still a punish. And then you can either throw or b3 as above.

Punishing means that the opponent is at negative frames and can't move. You block a move that's -12 on block, you'll be hitting that b3-glaive for free and there is nothing they can do about it.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
So the thing is that you need to pay attention to the difference between hitting them with the poke, and them blocking it. This is part of the stuff we call "Frame Data" and you can find it in practice mode.

'Blockstun' is the period of time when you're blocking someone's attack, and you can't move attack them back yet. You're stuck there until blockstun ends.
'Hitstun' is the period of time after you've been hit, and you can't move, or attack back until it ends.

When you hit someone with a poke, they are stuck in hitstun for a bit, and it's your turn. Pokes aren't highly highly advantageous, so you don't want to follow a poke on hit with a slow attack -- but it's enough that you can get a quick mid in. Usually most characters' BnBs start with fast mids or lows.

When someone blocks your poke it's technically not your turn -- you are at frame disadvantage. So you have to wait until you can attack again, or you risk the opponent interrupting your next attack. Sometimes you can get away with this: if you expect that they'll respond with a slower attack, or that they won't react fast enough to it, you can sometimes beat them when another poke.

But you don't want to abuse this as better players will blow you up for it. Learn frame data and it will answer a lot of your questions.
 
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DeftMonk

Noob
Block stun is how long ur character can’t move during the block animation for any attack that you blocked. Doesn’t mean you block 3 d1s and ur character gets stunned. Here’s what I reccomend for you to up ur poke game(disregard what glortor said about 2 frame window after d1. He’s right but let’s keep it simple) go to training. Pick jaqui as ur opponent. Set ai option to this: block(random combo) reversal mode(on) reversal move ( bionic dash). Then practice doing this:

You d1 and if she blocks u immediately block the bionic dash (ur turn is over). If it hits,throw that ho but be quick about it. Once you get good at this, you can start mixing other options like a quick hit confirmable mid or even a crossup after d1 hits. Don’t get into a habit of ducking the dash punch block it every time so u do the same in a match. Ur d1 d1 parry is a band aid for ur current poke problem which is: fighting games are about reads and reactions. Your throwing out the reaction part entirely and just trying to read he lets u poke twice and then pokes back(not good). Learn to react as much as possible then you will notice patterns in your opponent that make reads much more accurate.


Edit:if you feel u got the idea here and you want to practice what glortor meant by 2 frame window do this: set ai block (off) movement (duck) d1 him then start a string with 1 immediately. If u timed it right u will hit, if not hewill duck and ur probably about to eat a d2/d1 in a real match. If this timing is not too tough for u, then go back to the bionic dash reversal on random combo ai. Now practice blocking on blocked d1 or standing 1 with correct timing when the d1 hits.
 
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Thanks for the clarity Glortor and deft monk. Good information! I'm already pretty familiar with doing jade's back 343 EX glaive into back 343 throw or pole vault to be safe.......just connecting it after a down 1 thats hits is difficult for me for some reason. I just need to keep practicing! Also in general I personally find her Back 343 input on the controller more difficult then her other combos....I get it probably 80% of the time but I hate that I miss it at times.