Match-up Discussion Pocket Medic - Alternate Character discussion for Smoke Mains

[RiBBz22]

Most players out there usually say smoke as 4 bad MUs and they are Cage, Kabal, Kung Lao and Sonya. Wouldnt Reptile be a good choice. He probably goes even with Cage/Kabal and Kung Lao. Chris Gs Reptile did beat REO a couple monthes ago. That MU cant be that bad for Reptile.

@KT, I dont know if Jax is a good alt for you. Jax loses to Smokes bad MUs such as Cage/Sonya and a lot of people say KL beats Jax or goes even and do you think Jax really beats Kabal? Maybe its just CDJr that beats REO.

Good point, but I like Cage and just deal with the Kabal matchup. And I don't really like fighting Kung Lao with Reptile for whatever reason.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

I honestly think Smoke v Kabal at the highest level is one of the worst MU's in the game.

I am finally not alone in thinking this. Yay.

 

[G4S KT]

Most players out there usually say smoke as 4 bad MUs and they are Cage, Kabal, Kung Lao and Sonya. Wouldnt Reptile be a good choice. He probably goes even with Cage/Kabal and Kung Lao. Chris Gs Reptile did beat REO a couple monthes ago. That MU cant be that bad for Reptile.

@KT, I dont know if Jax is a good alt for you. Jax loses to Smokes bad MUs such as Cage/Sonya and a lot of people say KL beats Jax or goes even and do you think Jax really beats Kabal? Maybe its just CDJr that beats REO.

I am not here to contribute anything worthy. I only want to state that I am very happy that Smoke has difficult match ups vs. Cage, Kabal, and Sonya. These characters are awesome and make my tournament life a lot easier. That is all.

Ok, the thing that the community has to realize is that whenever they get lit up by someone using a character they had the impression wasn't good they shouldn't go straight to the match up chart

Cage and Sonya are MU's you have to work in but you can still outplay your opponent and win. Just because CURBOLICOUS was blowing me up bad with Cage doesn't mean the MU is worse, just that he's amazing and I was totally unprepared for his style of cage. If I ran that MU with him enough I could get it down precisely because of what I said above: you can outplay the other guy and you will win.

Smoke v Cage/Sonya are both 4.5 - 5.5

Kung Lao and Kabal require no thought at all against Smoke; they can literally do whatever they want whenever they want and you have to deal with it. You can outplay your opponent but still lose. You have to outplay your opponent AND hope that they make lots of mistakes in order to win AND you have to execute your punishes for these mistakes perfectly in order to win.

At the highest level Smoke v Kung Lao: 3.5 - 6.5 (or worse)
At the highest level Smoke v Kabal: 3-7 (or worse)

 

[G4S KT]

and that brings me to the secondary identity crisis I'm in now.

Jax: does well against Kabal, goes even with Sonya, loses to KL and Cage
Kenshi: blows up Cage and Sonya, loses to KL and Kabal. Having all that armor is a big help though
Sektor: ??? REO says that he adjusted how he plays the MU and it's bad for Sektor now.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Pick up Kung Lao.

 

[M2Dave]

KT Smith, why is Kung Lao so difficult for Smoke? By the way, Kung Lao vs. Jax Lao is supposedly an even match up. Kung Lao doesn't beat him.

You don't get to complain about some characters requiring no thought to beat some others when your own character requires no thought in certain match ups. Smoke can spam smoke bombs and ignore 90% of Freddy's zoning. LOL. At least Kabal requires a certain degree of execution to play.

 

[HD Smoke]

Ok, the thing that the community has to realize is that whenever they get lit up by someone using a character they had the impression wasn't good they shouldn't go straight to the match up chart

Cage and Sonya are MU's you have to work in but you can still outplay your opponent and win. Just because CURBOLICOUS was blowing me up bad with Cage doesn't mean the MU is worse, just that he's amazing and I was totally unprepared for his style of cage. If I ran that MU with him enough I could get it down precisely because of what I said above: you can outplay the other guy and you will win.

Smoke v Cage/Sonya are both 4.5 - 5.5

Kung Lao and Kabal require no thought at all against Smoke; they can literally do whatever they want whenever they want and you have to deal with it. You can outplay your opponent but still lose. You have to outplay your opponent AND hope that they make lots of mistakes in order to win AND you have to execute your punishes for these mistakes perfectly in order to win.

At the highest level Smoke v Kung Lao: 3.5 - 6.5 (or worse)
At the highest level Smoke v Kabal: 3-7 (or worse)

This ^^^^^ I agree with everything KT says about Smoke

Cage and Sonya win 5.5-4.5. Smoke can at least control the pace of the match, spacing, and time with Smoke away and EX Smoke away. Cage and Sonya have to take a risk if they want to get in on Smoke. This match up can be tough but Smoke being able to dictate where the fight is helps a lot. Smoke against almost every character controls the space and pace with his tools and thats part of why he is a top ten character. Reptile gets in on Smoke quick but i think once he gets in Smokes d1 pressure and footies into b2 really give Reptile a problem. I used to think Reptile won this match up but I really believe its 5.5-4.5 or maybe 6-4 with Smoke winning, d4 bomb and d1 pressure help alot in this and getting hit by a few dashes isnt the end of the world. Two characters in this game get in on Smoke quickly and safely and thats why they blow Smoke up so bad. They are Kung Lao and Kabal . They take away Smokes mobility and pressure him for free. Once they get in they also take away d1 SB or Smokes footsies with EX Dash and Spin. How CDjr's Smoke does good against Reo's Kabal is beyond me. Kabal feels like a 7-3 match up and kung lao feels like a 6-4. Atleast Kung Lao has to take SOME risk to get in on Smoke, Kabal can just dash cancel and dash Smoke all day. I have no clue on what Smoke can do against Kabal. My desperate guess is invisibility, mixing up 3,2 and 3,d1,2 block strings for mind games and EX Shake. I have started using a lot of ex Shake with Smoke/ Kabal because lets be honest Kabal is going to hit Smoke and make him waste meter so at least get a few EX Shakes in and get that HUGE 9% lol.

 

[HD Smoke]

There isnt much counter picking against Kabal. I used to love this character when the game came out as i thought him and Smoke were the coolest looking. However I HATE HATE HATE Kabal now and Kung Lao as well. I got tips from Metzos for Ermac and im loving this character as my alt. Not because he helps with bad match ups i just really like him and his meterless damage output so bad MU or not im using Smoke and Ermac. I only use ninjas now lol

 

[Faded Dreams V]

I honestly don't see how Kung Lao is THAT bad.

 

[HD Smoke]

I honestly don't see how Kung Lao is THAT bad.

its not the worse match up in the game but it is def tough for Smoke. I think its 6-4 as Smoke as punish lao hard and can bait a spin with oki pressure its just Smoke's huge hitbox and being unable to run away make it a 6-4 Kung Lao. I've seen Aris, Cdjr, and KT beat enough good Kung Laos to think it is not 7-3. Kabal/Smoke though is probably 7-3 but doesnt Kabal have a few matches that are 7-3? Its no suprise really the character is insane.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Aris

lol

 

[HD Smoke]

lol

I wish he still played the game man, I enjoyed his smoke

 

[G4S KT]

According to REO's latest chart, Kabal beats KL Sonya and Cage 6-4.

The Kabal mirror is of course 5-5 but I would never ever try to mirror match REO.

 

[FrothyOmen]

I'm going to be training with soonk all day on Friday. He seems convinced Smoke/Kabal is actually 5-5. We'll see which of us is wrong soon. I'll post a video from my toaster if he doesn't mind.

 

[HD Smoke]

KT Smith i think there should be two Smoke/Kabal Match ups, Smoke and Kabal prob 6-4 at high level for Kabal than there is Reo Kabal/Smoke which is 7-3 lol. You did beat Kevo da man in a amazing set and he is the 2nd or 3rd best Kabal out there! Have you ever played detroits Kabal?

 

[G4S KT]

KT Smith i think there should be two Smoke/Kabal Match ups, Smoke and Kabal prob 6-4 at high level for Kabal than there is Reo Kabal/Smoke which is 7-3 lol. You did beat Kevo da man in a amazing set and he is the 2nd or 3rd best Kabal out there! Have you ever played detroits Kabal?

I haven't played Detroit's, but I would like to.

It's true that REO is the only Kabal that has ever beaten me in a tourney, but he fucks me up so bad it's discouraging. It's the same deal with Klassy Sasquatch and Kung Lao; I've beaten every Kung Lao I've faced in tournament but I get blown up so bad by his.

The reason I won over Kevo is because he commits to EX Nomad Dash too much so I was getting big punishes since I'm good at reading people. Which kind of goes back to what I was saying before; he beat himself. I didn't beat him.

and m2dave, smoke bomb might mess up Freddy's zoning really bad but it's super easy to get around; just don't try and zone.

 

[HD Smoke]

If only kabal couldn't dash cancel lol. I was learning cage for KL but I'm actually not worried about counter picking. Brady saying fuck it and sticking with sub zero inspired me to just play smokes two bad match ups and win or lose its with Smoke. I'm playing ermac as another main not for counter picking and that character is underrated as hell

 

[M2Dave]

m2dave, smoke bomb might mess up Freddy's zoning really bad but it's super easy to get around; just don't try and zone.

Smoke bomb forces Freddy to approach and play footsies, something that Smoke does better than Freddy because of b+2 and d+4. Freddy cannot whiff any pokes or enter NMS because of smoke bomb. I think this match up is really bad at a high level.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I like to use Jade against Jax and Cage. Jade can freely play footsies, duck, flash and doesn't need to dash block or block hardly at all in these mu's. She can hold both Jax and Cage off with her pokes and long range normals. Flashing and rangs will for force both Jax and Cage to attack close range. Keeping Jade mid-screen, mid-range, moving back and forth and flashing to build some meter is the key to winning these mu's. In my opinion playing vs Cage with Jade is the most fun mu in the entire game. Although the Jax I played the other day did make some horrible mistakes... I have to look into this mu a bit more. I haven't played vs good Kabals or Kung Laos lately.
I also play Sektor, Liu Kang and Kano and I have decided to pretty much drop Scorpion and Cyrax alltogether. I prefer good overall chars instead of just specialists who zone or rush-down and yes, I know Kano sucks. Anyways, what do u guys think about Sektor and Liu Kang vs either Kabal or Kung Lao?

PS. Apologies to KT Smith for sending that PSN friend request and message about some Smoke pseudo-reset crap, I know now that the f4 to ex bomb is the only reset. My PSN is Lastenmurskaajah (=Childcrushah) if anyone wants to play just send me a message and I'll delete some of my other PSN buddies to add u lol.

 

[EvilMonkeyo]

Ive been a solid smoke player since ive started but since my first tournament appearance at Northwest Majors 4 i have decided to take on a alt. Ive been leaning towards jax, although im still trying to learn how to break down other characters to see their strengths and weaknesses. Jax just seems like a good pick for kung lao, who is My most difficult match up for smoke.

 

[G4S KT]

Ive been a solid smoke player since ive started but since my first tournament appearance at Northwest Majors 4 i have decided to take on a alt. Ive been leaning towards jax, although im still trying to learn how to break down other characters to see their strengths and weaknesses. Jax just seems like a good pick for kung lao, who is My most difficult match up for smoke.

Kung Lao blows up jax. his small hit box is a huge issue.

the only character that goes even with or beats all of Smoke's difficult match ups is KUHBALL. Otherwise you need multiple secondaries.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Kung Lao blows up jax. his small hit box is a huge issue.

the only character that goes even with or beats all of Smoke's difficult match ups is KUHBALL. Otherwise you need multiple secondaries.

How confident would you say you/other VSM guys are in Skarlet's matchups right now? I've been toying with her the past few weeks and I think that she could be a good alternative to kabal as an alt for smoke. Plus the surprise factor is good; nobody really knows how to fight her at a high level since nobody plays her. Kenshi can only do so much :\

 

[G4S KT]

How confident would you say you/other VSM guys are in Skarlet's matchups right now? I've been toying with her the past few weeks and I think that she could be a good alternative to kabal as an alt for smoke. Plus the surprise factor is good; nobody really knows how to fight her at a high level since nobody plays her. Kenshi can only do so much :\

I don't know much about skarlet besides what's punishable and what isn't. I keep reading that she has the highest execution in the game but I don't think I buy that

 

[FrothyOmen]

I don't know much about skarlet besides what's punishable and what isn't. I keep reading that she has the highest execution in the game but I don't think I buy that

Me either. Her BnBs really aren't all that hard, but maybe i'm doing scrub-mode ones? The only thing that could maybe be construed as somewhat hard with her is instant air daggers, as far as I can tell -_- I haven't used her in a real match yet, but I really doubt I'll be having execution trouble with her.

 

[RiBBz22]

Me either. Her BnBs really aren't all that hard, but maybe i'm doing scrub-mode ones? The only thing that could maybe be construed as somewhat hard with her is instant air daggers, as far as I can tell -_- I haven't used her in a real match yet, but I really doubt I'll be having execution trouble with her.

aww why didn't you play as her against me over the weekend? Maybe we started playing Worms too soon?? lol, I am going to make a team of MK characters when I get home.