PND Ketchup's thoughts after 4 days of Deadshot Gameplay

Discussion in 'Deadshot' started by PND_Ketchup, Apr 18, 2017.

By PND_Ketchup on Apr 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM
  1. PND_Ketchup

    PND_Ketchup "More deadly than the dawn"
    Official ESL Gaming

    EVERYTHING LISTED IN THIS THREAD WAS FROM A PRE RELEASE BUILD OF THE GAME AT A PUBLIC CONVENTION. THIS IS NOT THE FINAL VERSION OF THE GAME IN ANY WAY.

    Hi all!

    For those of you that are unaware, @PND_Mustard and I were at the Insomnia LAN Festival all weekend in the UK. Injustice 2 was fully playable to the public from Friday to Monday, and there were some exhibitions and showmatches taking place involving OmegaK, Nivek, MissJimmy and UndeadJim.

    This meant that we had a ton of hands on experience with a much more up to date build of the game to certain builds we'd played prior. This build included all Beta characters, plus Wonder Woman, Deadshot, Dr Fate, Aquaman, Harley and Swamp Thing.

    We played a lot of all non Beta characters, but this thread in particular will focus on Deadshot, as he was by far my most played character. We will be getting the guys into a podcast and discussing everyone else in a video to be uploaded shortly.

    I've made this thread because I have been insanely hype for Deadshot and information has been minimal. I know you guys are just as hype as I am, so here's everything I've found.

    Another reminder, pre release build folks.

    Overall

    Unlike certain other characters that have projectiles as a part of their gameplan, Deadshot is by far the most keepaway oriented character we've seen playable so far. He has 5 special moves as a base, and 4 of them are projectiles.

    With a couple of decent buttons up close, but nothing above and beyond, he has been clearly designed to be played at range, and through my experience vs a lot of the cast played by decent players, it appears to be where he is the most effective.

    Key Strings/Normals
    D2 - Not the best D2 I will admit, but then again I did fight mostly characters with amazing jump 3's so it may also be that. It has short range but is pretty fast. For anti air his B2 seemed pretty decent though.

    F3 - A forward heel strike very similar to Scorpion's B2 from Injustice 1. Neither his f3 or B3 were particularly fast.

    B3 - A short range dropkick, not super fast either and short range.
    B12 - This is the string I found myself using the most. The B1 hits low and the 2 hits overhead. It recovered fast on block.

    The B1 starts as a low gunshot, so the range of the normal is beyond deadshots arm. This appeared to be the longest reaching button he had, so it was a very attractive option while playing the midscreen footsie game.

    B12D3 - This whole string is the string that ends in slide as we saw in the deadshot trailer. As the slide is built into the string, you must dedicate to it. The slide launches the opponent and hits as a low, but midscreen you end too far away to do much combo wise. I did notice that another b12 would reach though, which gives you some damage at least.

    The slide is unsafe and there is a gap in between the 2 and d3. Not to be done mindlessly.

    B12U3 - This ender for the string causes Deadshot to do the cartwheel we've seen in his trailer. This cartwheel is a launcher that can be special cancelled.

    This string is very easy to hitconfirm and starts up faster than the slide. So if they try and press buttons expecting slide they would get hit. On block you can easily use a projectile to keep them from trying to press buttons, and on hit you can go for something else. It did seem like the U3 left them too far away to follow up with anything combo wise though, but I didn't test it much so I could be wrong. On hit B12U3 did guarantee free trait though.

    B12U3 into BF3 was his most effective corner launcher seemingly, which let you continue the juggle and bag decent corner B&B damage. I go into the BF3 later in this thread.

    F23 - F2 is a close range overhead normal. F2 did not combo into anything beyond bf3, or the natural string ender in f23. The 3 is a roundhouse kick that knocks them away, so again, no combos there. This means that Deadshot had a 50/50 between B1 and F2, however he couldn't get any damage off F2. His F2 did not combo into MB F3/B3 either.

    B23 - A semi advancing string that starts with a forward punch in B2. it's a high though so they can poke/press buttons if your spacing is off. The 3 is a double hitting kick that can be special cancelled. This was easily hitconfirmable into MB B3 and was an easy way to get decent launching damage for two bars. Similar to how Beetle has to use 111 MBB3 for easy damage. This string ends in b233, but the final hit knocks them away and can't be special cancelled, so i don't see it being used much. B23 BF3 MB into B1 was a particularly strong sequence this past weekend.

    123 - Starting from his fast standing 1, it's a solid string for punishing quick recovering specials. A basic punish would be 123 BF3, but there could be better ones with some lab time. the 3 is a low gunshot normal where he shoots your feet, so good for the end of long combos where the opponent falls fast.

    F123 - Another semi advancing string that ends in a gunshot that's built into the string. Although it may be good to use in combos or to mix up your staggers, the F12 seemed to be more minus on block, so I honestly didn't use it much. I may even have the annotation wrong with this one as I didn't use it a lot, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

    33 - Two high kicks that seemed effective in corner combos.

    Specials

    Straight Shot: BF1
    - A straight projectile that has super fast recovery. Your traditional single shot high projectile. This can also be done in the air, and due to its speed, does lower damage than other projectiles. Roughly 5% or so.

    The interesting thing about this move is that you could juggle with it in the corner due to its fast recovery, and the MB function is unique. When you MB the straight shot, he fires 3 more shots. If you press forward and MB instead, he will fire 3 shots but take a small step forward as he does it, if you press back and MB he will take a small step backwards. This lets you fire a projectile, but also re position on the screen slightly for the cost of a bar.

    Retreat shot: DB2 - Deadshot takes a small step back and fires a burst of projectiles. MB fires an even longer stream of bullets. This can be seen in all the trailers.

    Ground Shot: DF2 - Deadshot shoots the ground and bounces a projectile off the floor. You can control which direction the bullet bounces by holding a certain direction after inputting df2.

    Close shot = DF2B
    Medium shot = DF2
    Far shot = DF2D

    MB DF2 will fire a stream of bullets in whatever direction you've chosen. Although it looked like you may be able to combo with this, it seemed like you couldn't in this build. Most of the time they hit the ground before you recover from the special.

    The far ground shot was a superb way to hit an opponent neutral ducking if they're looking out for your high projectiles. Due to its fast recovery, it kept them in check and stopped neutral duck being a one size fits all evade for his projectiles.

    This was an amazing keepaway tool and also recovered really fast. It went hand in hand with his trait which I'll get into later.

    Rifle Shot: DB3 - Deadshot pulls out his rifle and shoots a single rifle shot that hits as a low. It has slow startup compared to the rest of his moves, but has good pushback and damage.

    The MB version is where things get crazy. he will fire a burst of machine gun rounds and It does around 20% damage on hit, but roughly 10+% on block with a ton of pushback. The meter build was nerfed since the raw gameplay we saw against black canary ages ago, so he doesn't build bar with it anymore.

    In this build, once you blocked the first shot you had to hold the followup. I don't know if this is going to stay the way it is, but it certainly seemed like the best projectile so far. If deadshot has meter, you have to be really carefull letting him be fullscreen.

    Knee Strike: BF3
    - The only special he had that wasn't a projectile, Deadshot leaps forward with a knee strike that causes a knockdown on hit. It can juggle the opponent in the corner if you hit them with it if they're already airborne and high enough, but on the ground it's a simple knockdown. This is his only wakeup attack, it's single hitting and unsafe on block.

    MB version will make deadshot flip forward after the knee connects for a second hit. This will also cause a knockdown and doesn't launch like it did in the original Deadshot trailer. The launch properties are most likely gear.

    The MB strike off the Knee attack was roughly +7 on block which really helped his up close game, particularly in the corner. I didn't pay too much attention to the frames though, as again, this was a pre release build. Remember that Sektor's MB flame burner was + on block before release too.

    Character Power

    Deadshot will power up his wrist canon projectiles to serve extra purposes. The trait does not effect his Rifle Shot in any way.

    Trait is up for a decent amount of time, and doesn't take a huge amount of time to come back either. I can't remember exact times unfortunately.

    I can't remember if trait effected the strings that had wrist canon built into them.

    Neutral Trait - Equipping Fire bullets, Deadshots wrist canon moves now do extra damage and apply a damage over time effect. This did not seem to effect the gravity of on hit effects, so his combos involving gunshot seemed to stay the same.

    Back Trait - Explosive shots will do extra damage and always cause a fast knockdown. Limiting your ability to combo into gunshots, but making your zoning incredible at all ranges. The knockdown is faster than usual, so you cannot combo off bullets mid air mid combo like you can normally.

    The knockdown effect will send the opponent really far backwards mid animation. This basically means hitting them with any wrist canon anywhere on screen will send them fullscreen. This seemed like toe go to option when zoning/counter zoning. With every shot knocking them down, this also means deadshot wins any projectile trade, as once you recover from getting hit by theirs, they're still on the floor and it's your turn to shoot first.

    If you're fullscreen, this is the trait you want to use most of the time.

    Forward Trait - The Poison bullets do not do extra damage, but will drain the opponents super meter on hit. Unlike some projectiles from MKX though, the meter drain does not apply on block in any way.

    each individual shot would drain a set amount of meter from the opponent, making projectiles beyond one single hit more effective as they would drain extra meter. DB2 was a particularly good move when poison bullets were effective.

    Basic Combos
    Not a huge amount here because I kept to a select few to make sure I could pull them off on the stage Exhibition. Nothing worse than dropping all your combos when you're meant to show off the game.
    B12D3 midscreen would combo into B12U3 BF1. It gave you a little chunk of damage and you could MB the BF1 for a little more if you wanted.

    B23 MB B3, J1 B12 BF3 or B23 BF3 was an easy combo too. You seemed to always need to jump in with 1 for your combos though, the other jump ins would often knock them down too fast and wouldn't tie in smoothly with the rest of his strings.

    In the corner you had more freedom for no bar. B12D3 BF3 would combo, leaving your opponent high enough to follow up with something else. This would be paired with the fact that the BF1 gunshot also kept them in air and left them high enough to follow up also.

    Therefore, a basic corner combo would be B12U3 BF3 D2 33BF1, 123BF3. You can leave the D2 out for more damage, but it's a bit harder because they aren't as high up when you do the 33.

    Overall I found Deadshot amazingly fun to play as I enjoy using keepaway characters. His zoning is clearly the main focus and I have no doubt he will do it really well. He can cover every section of the screen in some way and isn't completely helpless up close either. he just has no way near the amount of up close potential Deathstroke had.

    His Rifle shot was particularly powerful and will be very dangerous if he has meter. Even without the meter build it had in early videos, he builds a solid amount of bar with the rest of his moves anyway.

    It's hard to say if he will be amazing up close right now though, he doesn't have the instant freedom other characters have when finding new combos day one. He will probably have much better options than the combos I know so far, but I would need more time than I had to find them.

    Thanks for reading my massive wall of text, and I hope this helped some of you get a better idea over what to expect!

    Much love,
    Ketchup

    EVERYTHING LISTED IN THIS THREAD WAS FROM A PRE RELEASE BUILD OF THE GAME AT A PUBLIC CONVENTION. THIS IS NOT THE FINAL VERSION OF THE GAME IN ANY WAY.
    [​IMG]
    Sneakily promoted by the Tortoise
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2017
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Comments

Discussion in 'Deadshot' started by PND_Ketchup, Apr 18, 2017.

    1. TheJaquio
      TheJaquio
      I was waiting for this. Good stuff.
      Kooron Nation likes this.
    2. freerf245
      freerf245
      FINALLY SOME FUCKING DEADSHOT INFO
      Kooron Nation likes this.
    3. Azarashi Elder
      Azarashi Elder
      I'm looking forward to the video! FYI, if you guys would consider doing a Injustice 2 podcast semi-regularly, it'd be great to get your inputs on the game as the meta develops. I know you two are busy though, so, whatever will be.
      Saboteur-6 likes this.
    4. PND_Ketchup
      PND_Ketchup
      We actually plan on doing a general NRS Podcast involving the community once Injustice 2 drops.

      We want our content to focus heavily on competitive NRS games as a whole.
    5. karaokelove
      karaokelove
      You are my favorite person. Also, in the Options menu, there was a "Frame Data" tick box (in the botched Firestorm reveal, at least). Can you give us any information on that? Is it still in? Thanks!
    6. ismael4790
      ismael4790
      Been waiting for this, great analysis. Maximum hype right now.
    7. PND_Ketchup
      PND_Ketchup
      We never looked into that in particular, sorry!
      karaokelove likes this.
    8. CrazyFingers
      CrazyFingers
      Can't wait to hear more about Swamp Thing on the podcast. But Deadshot sounds like a really cool 100% dedicated zoner! Happy to see the super dedicated zoner players have a main.
      Dankster Morgan, macro and SaltShaker like this.
    9. Rickyraws
      Rickyraws
      Yes! YES!!!
      [​IMG]


      @PND_Ketchup


      Sweet! Dude I've been waiting for this since you hinted at a write up on Twitter. Thanks for taking the time to sharing this knowledge with us, lord knows we've not seen much of Deadshot outside of uncommentated snippets.


      Also thanks to @Nivek for also sharing his WW thoughts from IO6 on a Twitter as well. Any new Injustice 2 information is good information.
    10. SaltShaker
      SaltShaker
      Thanks for the detailed breakdown. Appreciate the write up, a few of us were waiting for some specifics and you delivered in full.

      @PLAYING TO WIN bruh.

      Quick question, is this a low or a mid? It looks like a low visually but unsure.
    11. IrishMantis
      IrishMantis
      Fantastic write up

      Thanks for the details
      PND_Ketchup likes this.
    12. M.D.
      M.D.
      So basically, Injustice 2 online will die because of Deadshot like the first one did because of Deathstroke.
      Good to know :D
    13. ismael4790
      ismael4790
      @PND_Ketchup "B12 - This is the string I found myself using the most. The B1 hits mid and the 2 hits overhead. It recovered fast on block."

      You mention later that b1 is a low. Tell me this is a mistake please xD
    14. PLAYING TO WIN
      PLAYING TO WIN
      I better not hear one tear about mb rifle. It is as strong (apparently) as a standing reset or rush down fool loving tool.

      If u guys get your crazy offense then we get something crazy for zoning.

      And before we get into the "but death stroke made the game unplayable for casuals and needs nerfs". ... ask yourself something. Were the same casuals that were losing to death stroke pre patch still losing the exact same way post patch? The answer is yes. Yes they were.
    15. PLAYING TO WIN
      PLAYING TO WIN
      In there!!!

      I will comment more later when I have time. Probably this evening. Gonna need the zoners to power up and defend al the hate.

      @General M2Dave @Pig Of The Hut lets regulate lol
    16. ismael4790
      ismael4790

      I still haven't seen @Pig Of The Hut showing interest in Deadshot, and it surprises me!
    17. CrazyFingers
      CrazyFingers
      I hate playing against zoning but I understand the need for it in NRS games and it's just something I'm gonna need to get around on my own. Glad you guys got your keep away god!
    18. PND_Ketchup
      PND_Ketchup
      The B1 is actually a low, I think I just derped and was thinking of something else when I typed Mid.

      This is why proof reading is good folks!
    19. PLAYING TO WIN
      PLAYING TO WIN
      @PND_Ketchup is officially my favorite person in the community... today
      DubiousShenron, Nivek, Shaka and 2 others like this.
    20. TheJaquio
      TheJaquio
      Something to remember is that Injustice 2 when released won't be hampered by garbage netcode, so casual players won't have quite as hard of a time dealing with zoning compared to Injustice 1. Hopefully that will lower the amount of complaints about characters like Deadshot.
      South and karaokelove like this.
    21. PND_Ketchup
      PND_Ketchup
      UndeadJim and OmegaK played him a ton. They have a lot of input there.
    22. PND_Ketchup
      PND_Ketchup
      All ground shots are a mid.
      SaltShaker likes this.
    23. CrazyFingers
      CrazyFingers
      I figured Jim played him a lot and I'm not surprised Omega played him. Hype to hear their thoughts! I can't wait for this game man, favorite DC character as my favorite Fighting game archtype!
    24. NHDR
      NHDR
      Definitely going to main him, thanks for the info!
      ismael4790 likes this.

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