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People think She is Easy?

Is Cassie Honest or Busted?


  • Total voters
    113

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I play Sub & Cassie, 90% of my matches are as Subzero and whenever I run into a Cassie player I can defend & punish her stuff without any trouble
"Cassie is my main guys, trust me when I say she's actually not that good. She's so bad, I know how to counter my main when I play against her, and it's not at all because I have so much experience playing her"
 
I don't think she's either of those so I picked explain. She's very strong, Top 3. But she isn't "derp" either. She could use the slightest of tone down, but that's it. Her and Kabal are the ideal top tiers for the game imo. Her tools aren't honest, but she isn't braindead either.

Compare that to Geras, Erron, or Liu where they are "I'm optimal after 10 minutes" type of characters, and you can see the difference. Cassie doesn't fit that mold, but she has everything you need to be top tier.
I agree with you about Cassie but let's not throw Liu under the bus here, he's innocent
 
I voted the 3rd option. Cassie is a very strong character but she's not a character you'll pick and beat everyone with when you will pick her for the first time.

And stop defending Cassie just by saying her pokes are 8f, her fatal blow is meh and her U2 not good.

The Fatal Blow is not that bad. It deals high damage, it won't caught an experienced player on neutral but it will prevent him from zoning because on a read it deals a great amout of damage. If you realize your opponent will block it, then you can land either close if the opponent is fullscreen or fullscreen fatal blow if the opponent is close. It won't prevent you from being punished but most of the characters won't be able to punish you with their most effective combo, so it has a certain level of damage control. In Yaas Queen the Fatal Blow can be connected into a combo, so it is great to deal unbreakable damage from an unbreakable combo. Yes it is probably the worst FB if you try to land it in neutral play (it shouldn't be used that way anyways), but it s not that bad.

Yes her u2 is meh. But it is not worth using because it needs a huge read to work and is full combo punishable with any character. U2s are not good in general in the current meta.

And for the pokes, yes they're 8 frames but if you connect it you can start your pressure with the 9 frames mid and staggers and even mix up with throws. And her d4 is quite good so I wouldn't complain if I played Cassie.

Also, it is not the case here, but I often see people complaining about her d2 having no range. What do they expect ? They want NRS to buff her until she becomes so busted it's not even worth picking any other character ?

Of course she has flaws, and fortunately she has them. I think you're trying to downplay the character here. I don't think she's the best character but she's definitely top 3. She's a threat anywhere on the arena and has a decent answer to almost all kind of situations. Both of her variations are very good. For me she's the second best character in the game. I would have put her top 1 if she had a throw KB.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Wait, is yaas queen actually good? I was under the impression that the drone zap move is a worse combo extender than low gunshot, and she has many advancing moves, making the shoulder charge redundant. Can anyone explain why Yaas queen is actually worth using lol
Hmm Yaas Queen is incredibly good. She is A+ tier if you use her right and know how to wavedash and micro dash. Her combos can be ended with BLB which is +10 restand which can be reached with F21+3 & Shoulder opening up other options after she earns respect from the frametrap. She gets 22-28% midscreen combos plus 4% chip and can do multiple turns with her frame traps to widdle them down or open them up.
Its probably the best variation vs Zoners like Shang, Cetrion.

She also gets better corner damage than her other variation but loses a bit midscreen which I think is well worth the trade off. She loses Kneecappin (mid projectile) but gets Shoulder/BLB +10 restands/Corner Damage as a trade off.
She takes higher execution to combo with her midscreen but I think its worth it if you know how to dashcancel/wavedash well.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
I voted the 3rd option. Cassie is a very strong character but she's not a character you'll pick and beat everyone with when you will pick her for the first time.

And stop defending Cassie just by saying her pokes are 8f, her fatal blow is meh and her U2 not good.

The Fatal Blow is not that bad. It deals high damage, it won't caught an experienced player on neutral but it will prevent him from zoning because on a read it deals a great amout of damage. If you realize your opponent will block it, then you can land either close if the opponent is fullscreen or fullscreen fatal blow if the opponent is close. It won't prevent you from being punished but most of the characters won't be able to punish you with their most effective combo, so it has a certain level of damage control. In Yaas Queen the Fatal Blow can be connected into a combo, so it is great to deal unbreakable damage from an unbreakable combo. Yes it is probably the worst FB if you try to land it in neutral play (it shouldn't be used that way anyways), but it s not that bad.

Yes her u2 is meh. But it is not worth using because it needs a huge read to work and is full combo punishable with any character. U2s are not good in general in the current meta.

And for the pokes, yes they're 8 frames but if you connect it you can start your pressure with the 9 frames mid and staggers and even mix up with throws. And her d4 is quite good so I wouldn't complain if I played Cassie.

Also, it is not the case here, but I often see people complaining about her d2 having no range. What do they expect ? They want NRS to buff her until she becomes so busted it's not even worth picking any other character ?

Of course she has flaws, and fortunately she has them. I think you're trying to downplay the character here. I don't think she's the best character but she's definitely top 3. She's a threat anywhere on the arena and has a decent answer to almost all kind of situations. Both of her variations are very good. For me she's the second best character in the game. I would have put her top 1 if she had a throw KB.
I didn't downplay anything. I believe she is top tier. I think she has the tools for most of the cast I was just explaining her flaws that many don't seem to understand. Its like most focus on the strengths and act like there is no way around those.
I simply don't think she is broke just very good and its fine to be very good.
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I told someone before that she's about as close as you can get to a well designed top tier. She is incredibly complete and well rounded in mids, safety, staggers, neutral etc, but she doesn't feel like it feels to fight Erron or Geras. Playing against them really feels unfun and unfair even if you're playing someone that doesn't get bodied by them free.

I don't like the term honest though when she has a 9 frame 0 on block mid but I digress lol.
My thoughts exactly, why I voted for the 3rd choice.

Cassie's strong, not honest, but also not annoying and busted.
 
Can we stop acting like it takes braincells to play Cassie. "Uhh bro she got no mix bro", "She has no KB's brochocho". Who the fuck cares. She has a 0 on block 9f mid that sets up the dumbest shit in the game. You know why some people can react to staggers succesfully? Cause they're negative - this biatch breaks the rules. SHE HAS A RESTAND basically making every combo ender a strike/throw mixup. Hmmm that sounds a lot like Geras except that's on KNOCKDOWN where you have OPTIONS. Cassie by design TAKES your options from you. So while Sonya, Geras and Erron are dumb because of their many damn options, Cassie is stupid as hell because you're left with a very limited toolset all the while she beats you from everywhere on the screen. She also goes even or straight up beats the other top tiers.
She would be honest , by MKX standarts. Compared to MK11 characters she is not honest at all. She avoids zoning entirely , avoids the poke game entirely with f4 and never has to take any amount of risk whatsoever. Almost all of her strings are safe mids with virtualy no gaps . Her combo routes are also great and end in the best mid-screen restand in the game.

She is not Geras , but saying Cassie requires skill is straight laughable.
I thought Jade downplay was bad - this outright pathetic lul
I never said she wasn't easier to use. She's a real pain in the ass to fight too. She's just not as good as Geras, Erron, Sonya, Scorpion, or Jacqui, but she's better than everyone else. Also, that's my S tier list in order.
 

Noserfatu

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
Terrible pokes, d2, u2, FB, and bad KBs.
Middle of the road dmg.
S1 and b3 are good AAs but you still have to make the read.

F4 is an awesome mid and her best move. So? Plenty of characters have great mids in this game. Liu, Jax, Jacqui, erron, kabal, geras all have amazing mids that get used repeatedly.
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
F4 -5 on block
Reduced anti air effectiveness on jab and shadow kick so she actually has to try
Ex glow kick -5 and does NOT switch sides

Character fixed
I don’t think -5 will change much. Make it 11 frames instead.
 

Arqwart

Resident "Subhuman Piece of Trash" Edenian Player
F4 -5 on block
Reduced anti air effectiveness on jab and shadow kick so she actually has to try
Ex glow kick -5 and does NOT switch sides

Character fixed
More than anything, I think fixing hitboxes (your second point) is a huge key to shaving off power from her. Some of her moves hit in the WILDEST places as if her whole model acts as an extended hitbox from whatever she's tossing out.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I don’t think -5 will change much. Make it 11 frames instead.
11 frames and being neutral on Block is still pretty strong. when making it 11 frames they have to shave off some block frames from it like -2 or -3. making it -5 on Block would still allow her to hit fast and frametrap but she can‘t stagger with it anymore. I‘d be fine with both changes tbh.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
S1 and b3 are good AAs but you still have to make the read
You're either 60 years old or you reactions are toast. B3 is fucking busted, comes out quick, has a super solid vertical hitbox. She's probably the only one who can make Kabal respect someone despite having j2. B3 is a midscreen reactable anti air - stop downplaying

Liu, Jax, Jacqui, erron, kabal, geras all have amazing mids that get used repeatedly
There's a difference between good mids, and the best mids. Liu Kang can actually be blown up with spacing. Jax f3 has the range comparable to Sub Zero's d3 and is unsafe, Jacqui is at least negative on her mid that leads to a hitconfirm, so is everyone else - Cassie breaks that rule.

It's not just f4 that's 0 on block mind you. F2 is the same and that's one of the longest range normals in the game. Yes it's a high, but Cassie has no issue conditioning you to block when she also has b1 - and that's the thing. If you're not frame perfect when you read staggers you're gonna get blown up, and you certainly aint gonna react to her staggers.

And f21+3 punishes sooooooooooooo many things that the other top tiers actually struggle with. Cassie is a nightmare for Noob players as it's a full combo everytime he goes for b11+3 regardless of spacing. The only 'bad' thing about her is her KB's that pale in comparison with the likes of Geras. Funny how this gets brought up as a thing bringing her down but for Johnny ppl be like "He doesn't need KB's anyway cause he so good fundamentally" wut lul
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
11 frames and being neutral on Block is still pretty strong. when making it 11 frames they have to shave off some block frames from it like -2 or -3. making it -5 on Block would still allow her to hit fast and frametrap but she can‘t stagger with it anymore. I‘d be fine with both changes tbh.
Well that address a different side of the issue of it's effectiveness. Making it 11 frames would make it the same as B2. I don't think the issue is how fast it starts up. I think the issue is how fast it starts up AS A STAGGER. F4 into whatever else she wants to do.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Well that address a different side of the issue of it's effectiveness. Making it 11 frames would make it the same as B2. I don't think the issue is how fast it starts up. I think the issue is how fast it starts up AS A STAGGER. F4 into whatever else she wants to do.
Yeah that‘s what I meant. Making it 11 frames doesn‘t change the fact that it still should be more minus on block. 11 on Startup and 0 on Block wound still be Crazy good

Honestly....are ANY characters difficult to play in MK11? Look at what they did to Kabal. Good god.
To be fair mean streak is pretty hard to play optimal. Not mk9 kabal difficult but definitely harder than the rest of the cast. I only mainee the hard execution characters in nrs games and mean streak doesn‘t feel that much easier
 
She's definitely top tier but she does have flaws that people with good mu knowledge can exploit. I don't think she's the kind of character that carries bad players. If they tone down her frames and hitboxs a pinch I'd say she's balanced. There isn't a single move she has that is an abusable crutch like some of the other top tiers have.
 

Wigy

There it is...
She's definitely top tier but she does have flaws that people with good mu knowledge can exploit. I don't think she's the kind of character that carries bad players. If they tone down her frames and hitboxs a pinch I'd say she's balanced. There isn't a single move she has that is an abusable crutch like some of the other top tiers have.
Idk man f4 is 9 frames 0 on block and auto shimmys.

You have half a brain and it's pretty stupid.
 
It's a great move, probably one of her best, but you don't see players spamming it and winning matches because of it. It's a tool that's strong in neutral not one that beats neutral. F4 is good because of everything else she has. She might be the best character in the game if you put the effort in, but you do need a pulse to play her