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Strategy Once you're in

Skitzo

Noob
Figured I'd start this discussion.

This thread will be about footsies/set ups/pressure once Flash gets in.
Here are just a couple of strings with some uses

21
This string hits mid with 9f start-up. Neutral on block & gives a bit of push back on block, can be confirmed into combo of choice. The push back sits up some whiff punish baiting with your b22 string. Can check the opponent with this after a blocked b22

d1d2(d3)
Low starter of choice. A full string off his 7f d1, first 2 hits are neutral, while the full is -13 like the flat out d3. Guaranteed check after a blocked b2(2).

b22(f3)
Flash's best whiff punisher & frame traps of choice (blocked b2 = +4 | blocked b22 = +3). The range of this is godlike, just slightly outside of the range your put at the start of a match. Whenever you get this blocked, you gain access to Flash's dirty high/low mix-up. For the uninformed: you get a d1d2 check after this gets blocked & it will beat out anything your opponent does except for maybe a mb f3/be, once your opponent starts respecting this is when you can start pulling out your overhead f213 string into combo

f213
Another string with slightly less range than b22. +10 on block. The first 2 inputs can be hit confirmed with ease because they hit 4 times, so cancel into Lightning Kick mb if it hits or 3 for your frame advantage. Not sure how viable the +10 on block is anyway, it pushes them away so you can't follow up with anything. The only thing that reaches is d3 & b22 & i don't even know if the b22 is guaranteed but going by the frame data it should.

Regular Lightning Kick for more pressure
Instead of going into a full combo on a confirm, you can choose to do a regular lightning kick to stay on their ass because of the +15 on hit. From here, you can go for more pressure or check them with a grab. This is especially deadly in the corner, because d1d2 will connect unlike if this was hit midscreen. Giving you another nasty high/low set-up.

These are just a couple of things/basics to note, feel free to post any of your thoughts & ideas on the topic. Whether being pros or cons.
 

LanceMonsoon

All in on Johnny Football
Great write up, I love his mixup game and I have just started utilizing his b22f3 string today, after seeing the reach it had. The only problem I'm having is his 21 string. The reach is terrible on it due to his Sektor like "t-rex reach" lol. I use 21 more to punish a really really up close move. Haven't tried just regular lightning kick yet. I use that to end combos when I don't have meter to spend and then go for a grab (like mentioned).
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
Figured I'd start this discussion.

This thread will be about footsies/set ups/pressure once Flash gets in.
Here are just a couple of strings with some uses

21
This string hits mid with 9f start-up. Neutral on block & gives a bit of push back on block, can be confirmed into combo of choice. The push back sits up some whiff punish baiting with your b22 string. Can check the opponent with this after a blocked b22

d1d2(d3)
Low starter of choice. A full string off his 7f d1, first 2 hits are neutral, while the full is -13 like the flat out d3. Guaranteed check after a blocked b2(2).

b22(f3)
Flash's best whiff punisher & frame traps of choice (blocked b2 = +4 | blocked b22 = +3). The range of this is godlike, just slightly outside of the range your put at the start of a match. Whenever you get this blocked, you gain access to Flash's dirty high/low mix-up. For the uninformed: you get a d1d2 check after this gets blocked & it will beat out anything your opponent does except for maybe a mb f3/be, once your opponent starts respecting this is when you can start pulling out your overhead f213 string into combo

f213
Another string with slightly less range than b22. +10 on block. The first 2 inputs can be hit confirmed with ease because they hit 4 times, so cancel into Lightning Kick mb if it hits or 3 for your frame advantage. Not sure how viable the +10 on block is anyway, it pushes them away so you can't follow up with anything. The only thing that reaches is d3 & b22 & i don't even know if the b22 is guaranteed but going by the frame data it should.

Regular Lightning Kick for more pressure
Instead of going into a full combo on a confirm, you can choose to a regular lightning kick to stay on their ass because of the +15 on hit. From here, you can go for more pressure or check them with a grab. This is especially deadly in the corner, because d1d2 will connect unlike if this was hit midscreen. Giving you another nasty high/low set-up.

These are just a couple of things/basics to note, feel free to post any of your thoughts & ideas on topic. Whether being pros or cons.
the d2 part of d1d2 does hit certain characters mid screen after LK, but this vortex is deadly in the corner, with f21 LK and d1d2 LK plus b22 into d1d2 his corner game is nasty, i just wish that running man cancels gave advantage on block :(
 

LEGEND

YES!
a Blocked D1D2 sets up pretty good spacing for F213 and using the D1D2(D3) sparingly can condition people to block low so the F2 string followup can become a little more effective, i even go for D3 by itself after a slight walkback, adds another layer to the mix-up and not many people can punish it at that distance

i also think MB DF3 is a good way to stay in when you get moved just outside sweep distance, alot safer then trying to throw out B22 sometimes

I have some interesting uses for the Running man stance involving cancels but i only got to test it for about 10 mins so far. I might write something up tomorrow when i have time

oh and fuck Raven
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
a Blocked D1D2 sets up pretty good spacing for F213 and using the D1D2(D3) sparingly can condition people to block low so the F2 string followup can become a little more effective, i even go for D3 by itself after a slight walkback, adds another layer to the mix-up and not many people can punish it at that distance

i also think MB DF3 is a good way to stay in when you get moved just outside sweep distance, alot safer then trying to throw out B22 sometimes

I have some interesting uses for the Running man stance involving cancels but i only got to test it for about 10 mins so far. I might write something up tomorrow when i have time

oh and fuck Raven
raven is probably flash worse MU, and i tried the fuck out of his running man cancels, example, B22 RMxx back dash b22, and 21RM backdash 21 in the corner, but even in game you can be poked out of, mr mileena on reaction could do it, its not fast enough, you can also combo into running man and do a follow up in the same combo, so they mix up from there needs to be used to condition them to keep blocking while you set up your RM cancels, video this afternoon on everything i know from 30+ hours with the flash.
 

LEGEND

YES!
raven is probably flash worse MU, and i tried the fuck out of his running man cancels, example, B22 RMxx back dash b22, and 21RM backdash 21 in the corner, but even in game you can be poked out of, mr mileena on reaction could do it, its not fast enough, you can also combo into running man and do a follow up in the same combo, so they mix up from there needs to be used to condition them to keep blocking while you set up your RM cancels, video this afternoon on everything i know from 30+ hours with the flash.
So far i've been using Running man as a bait, and Canceling it recovers instantly so armoring B3 or straight blocking can be used to punish any attempt at stuffing the Stance
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
So far i've been using Running man as a bait, and Canceling it recovers instantly so armoring B3 or straight blocking can be used to punish any attempt at stuffing the Stance
yeah i just wish it gave a lil advantage so i can atleast d1, unless online screwed it up for me i got stuffed everytime on block from a b22 which is plus 3 by its self
 

chronos411

Last Kyptonian of VA
I am def gonna add this stuff to my game. Very good post. Just a gerneral question though I didnt wanna make a new thread but can we get a Mod to unlcok the match-up thread. That way we can start to talk about match-up specifics. I know I am having trouble with cyborg and other heavy zoners but i dont wanna fill this thread with that stuff
 

Skitzo

Noob
Agreed, also we should compile a list of projectiles we can phase through > trait > into lightning charge or the anti air one (not sure which one it is) > combo
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
After B22 is blocked, I advise doing D1 xx Lightning Kick (MB) instead of D1D2 as if they jump, they will not be hit by the 2nd hit. If you do D1 xx Lightning Kick (MB) and they attempted to jump out you can follow up with B22F3 lightning charge for a 33% combo into untechable knockdown.

The guessing game off B22 on block is thus:
D1 xx Lightning kick: Beats blocking high, jumping, or trying to a poke
F2 xx Lightning kick: Beats blocking low and backdash (this option selects into F21 which you can then cancel into lightning kick)

Pretty good for having a move blocked. :)

P.S. 21 claims it is a mid but whiffs on some crouchers. Sometimes the whole string whiffs.
 

TogetherLemon

Robot Blueberry
The Lightning Kick pressure really shines in the corner. Since you don't have to close any distance to start even your quickest strings, you will constantly stuff people over and over. If people can jump out of Lightning Kick pressure I have yet to see someone successfully do it online.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
After B22 is blocked, I advise doing D1 xx Lightning Kick (MB) instead of D1D2 as if they jump, they will not be hit by the 2nd hit. If you do D1 xx Lightning Kick (MB) and they attempted to jump out you can follow up with B22F3 lightning charge for a 33% combo into untechable knockdown.

The guessing game off B22 on block is thus:
D1 xx Lightning kick: Beats blocking high, jumping, or trying to a poke
F2 xx Lightning kick: Beats blocking low and backdash (this option selects into F21 which you can then cancel into lightning kick)

Pretty good for having a move blocked. :)

P.S. 21 claims it is a mid but whiffs on some crouchers. Sometimes the whole string whiffs.
The Lightning Kick in "D1 ~ Lightning Kick" has been wiffing right now in Training Mode against jumping Green Lantern. Is that character specific tech?

21 looks like a point blank move.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
I know you...



I'm not sure about Raven being Flash's worst. I think Green Lantern and Deathstroke probably give him more trouble. I definitely need to play that match up from Flash's perspective.
no gl is bad for the flash as well as deathstroke, but raven is retarded because all she has to do to keep you out is df2 and throw her projectile, then trait and use her full screen intant pull for full combo if you get hit, once in her trait the flash cannot move, because she has a low hitting spike kind of move that give her full combo and the pull while in trait then when ther trait is gone she can gravity squeeze you if you try to move in to fast, and keep throwing projectiles on your wake up so you cant torpedo in, the MU is fucked up as of now, trust me i play mr mileena's raven, its rediculous and her damage if caught midscreen by anything is stupid, she can do 38% two bar if you get caught mid screen.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
no gl is bad for the flash as well as deathstroke, but raven is retarded because all she has to do to keep you out is df2 and throw her projectile, then trait and use her full screen intant pull for full combo if you get hit, once in her trait the flash cannot move, because she has a low hitting spike kind of move that give her full combo and the pull while in trait then when ther trait is gone she can gravity squeeze you if you try to move in to fast, and keep throwing projectiles on your wake up so you cant torpedo in, the MU is fucked up as of now, trust me i play mr mileena's raven, its rediculous and her damage if caught midscreen by anything is stupid, she can do 38% two bar if you get caught mid screen.
I use Raven so I know what she's kapable of.

Lantern on the other hand has some pretty mindless stuff. If you think you kan't move in on Raven then you'll feel worse once you play a Lantern. Machine gun rapes Flash. At least Raven is minus on the push..

As for Deathstroke, I'm not sure. I don't have the experience for this match up. It's just an off the top of my head thought.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
I use Raven so I know what she's kapable of.

Lantern on the other hand has some pretty mindless stuff. If you think you kan't move in on Raven then you'll feel worse once you play a Lantern. Machine gun rapes Flash. At least Raven is minus on the push..

As for Deathstroke, I'm not sure. I don't have the experience for this match up. It's just an off the top of my head thought.
just stay outside of machine gun range and torpedo in once its done and bam you have yourself an untechable knockdown to work with.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
just stay outside of machine gun range and torpedo in once its done and bam you have yourself an untechable knockdown to work with.
It's safe... And Torpedo is not. Especially against 10 Frame "Ring Lift" Lantern.

Trait EX Machine Gun is Full Screen. Not to mention he has a 9 Frame Ranged low if you do get in that he kan kancel into the machine gun..

Best wiff punisher in the game as well.

After testing some stuff with Raven just now, I am konvinced he's Flash's worst Match Up at this time.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
It's safe... And Torpedo is not. Especially against 10 Frame "Ring Lift" Lantern.

Trait EX Machine Gun is Full Screen. Not to mention he has a 9 Frame Ranged low if you do get in that he kan kancel into the machine gun..

Best wiff punisher in the game as well.

After testing some stuff with Raven just now, I am konvinced he's Flash's worst Match Up at this time.
its not safe if you wiff punish it, but yes GL is a problem :)
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
its not safe if you wiff punish it, but yes GL is a problem :)
You kan't wiff punish it if he meter burns it. Waiting for it is an answer but not a good one.

Well, I guess at this point I should be glad Flash at least has an answer for 3/4 Screen Miniguns.
 
I agree that GL is a bad one for flash. The ring throw grabs flash out of LC! Also, I'm not sure what the move is but GL kinda low slide kick is an amazing combo starter. Against raven I inch myself in and stay in with crossups and vortex. Can't afford to be out of range. I think one of the best matchs is against nightwing. For nightwing to do most of his damage he has to be in close. Flash easily beats him out there and his projectile is a joke. That's what I have so far.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
The Lightning Kick in "D1 ~ Lightning Kick" has been wiffing right now in Training Mode against jumping Green Lantern. Is that character specific tech?

21 looks like a point blank move.
I didn't go through every char and test it. I've just used it as a general strat against every char and hadn't run into that problem yet. You have to do it on very specific timing though regardless. It's pretty easy to mess up, especially with it being week 1
 

LEGEND

YES!
I know you...



I'm not sure about Raven being Flash's worst. I think Green Lantern and Deathstroke probably give him more trouble. I definitely need to play that match up from Flash's perspective.
i don't think its that bad anymore, i had no idea what to do when we played
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
I didn't go through every char and test it. I've just used it as a general strat against every char and hadn't run into that problem yet. You have to do it on very specific timing though regardless. It's pretty easy to mess up, especially with it being week 1
I found out how to land it more konsistently by delaying the Lightning Kick. I'll test it again with Lantern later.