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On your knees, day 6 Kotal Kahn impressions.

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Whiff punishing as in stepping back or back dashing then using an advancing MID (F1). Not implying the run mechanic cause then that would be Rush Down as opposed to whiff punishing.

Make no mistake here. I'm not discrediting the character or lack of knowledge on my behalf. I'm asking what "options" are YOU ALL using that are working

** Edit ** Just saw you said punish mashing F4 and F34

** 2nd Edit ** Insert Video footage.
I always see people stating things that in general sound optimistic. I would like to see work in progress
If you seriously are too lazy to lab punishing mashing with 15 and 17f mids, twitch.tv/Qwark28 or look at the video sections. I stream hours every day.
 
If you seriously are too lazy to lab punishing mashing with 15 and 17f mids, twitch.tv/Qwark28 or look at the video sections. I stream hours every day.
Apparently you are so quick to try and bust my balls you missed the part where I stated i'm at work. So miss me with that too lazy shit!
 
If only the game released 6 days ago.
If only I was still in my 20's, could stay at home, play games, and stream videos all day long.

You're being toxic as fuck. You provided some insight and pointed out some options. Cool, thanks. But instead of acting like an adult, you're being a dick and most of the kids on here will be entertained by your shenanigans.

Smdh. I'm 36, a father, been in my career 13 years, help run my family owned business, and assist coaching baseball. So I don't have the luxury of devoting time to lab testing every character I'd like to play in my off time. I figured that's what Test Your Might forums was for...to get info.

Get off your high horse son and lose the attitude or just don't reply unless you're going to be constructive
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
If only I was still in my 20's, could stay at home, play games, and stream videos all day long.

You're being toxic as fuck. You provided some insight and pointed out some options. Cool, thanks. But instead of acting like an adult, you're being a dick and most of the kids on here will be entertained by your shenanigans.

Smdh. I'm 36, a father, been in my career 13 years, help run my family owned business, and assist coaching baseball. So I don't have the luxury of devoting time to lab testing every character I'd like to play in my off time. I figured that's what Test Your Might forums was for...to get info.

Get off your high horse son and lose the attitude or just don't reply unless you're going to be constructive
Fair enough, it sounded to me like you were trying to be cheeky or something similar.

I apologise if that wasn't the case.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
I think kotal needs to be able to flip which direction the command grab goes depending on whether you amplify it or not like his df2 move with the sword. With the command grab at the minute if you do it in the corner then you basically screw yourself over. Considering this is his main combo ender it seems a bit unfair. I also feel like his parry needs faster start up and/or recovery as against continous projectiles it does nothing and kotals projectiles is one of the slowest in the game. Finally his second Ranked variation needs changing like who uses the jaguar moves? I would personally prefer to see one based around his totems and on that note change the totem input to A instead of left trigger it's awkward af to call totems.
Yeah the jag moves are only good for not switching sides I'm combo. Kotal is shit without Kahn-cut and needs it as a base move with totem and Command Grab.
Yes the totems are akward AF and hard to call out bring on LT. I'd even be ok with BDF inputs if they needed too. Just make it amp button or A like you said.
 

Wrenchfarm

Lexcorp Proprietary Technologies
I'm with Stretch here. I see a lot of people theory fighting, but very little video. I'd like to see some and not in a shitty "if you think he's good, prove it" way, but I would really like to learn the character and not have him be trash.

Shout outs to Qwark who has been streaming Kotal. I dipped in the other day on those Frost sets, you make him look a lot better than most.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I'm with Stretch here. I see a lot of people theory fighting, but very little video. I'd like to see some and not in a shitty "if you think he's good, prove it" way, but I would really like to learn the character and not have him be trash.

Shout outs to Qwark who has been streaming Kotal. I dipped in the other day on those Frost sets, you make him look a lot better than most.
Thanks but that was mostly because nikolas picked up frost 1-2 hours ago.

The shao khan sets are the real footsie delight.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
In my opinion competitive mode Sun Ray is a joke since you cant decide where you want to place it (close, mid, far).

It's like if you're going to give us a passive like that at least make it fast. Look how quick Errons acid vial comes out. He's able to drop it for free after any string he wants. For us you have to be really really careful about using it unless you're willing to take a hit to get it out.
Yeah the God Ray ability that changes Sun Ray to be medium/Far and not track is kinda shit but I have found a way to use it vs Jax and Scarlet. I had to condition them to allow me to use it without getting punished off of F34 full screen launcher then I had them conditioned to block F24 and would throw out close Sun and I'd try to get them in it with pushback if they ran in or I stepped in it if they zoned me, it really keeps you from taking chip and heals have your life. It's a strong move but it's just too high of recovery, like I said I don't think there is a safe setup for it like there was in X.
It's hard to deal with zoning but the sun ray helps keep him alive but I'd rather have base sun that is on him unmetered and tracks opponent with amplify.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
I'm with Stretch here. I see a lot of people theory fighting, but very little video. I'd like to see some and not in a shitty "if you think he's good, prove it" way, but I would really like to learn the character and not have him be trash.

Shout outs to Qwark who has been streaming Kotal. I dipped in the other day on those Frost sets, you make him look a lot better than most.
I'm on XB1 and have a problem uploading videos so I'll try to share some sets. I don't think he is great but has potential. I think most don't know how to punish everything since it's only week 1.
Do you know how to set the AI to punish on wakeup like Sub Slide. I'm trying to test his God Ray setups in tournament variation off combo cancels and launchers like F34 which seems to be the best way but so far I have to condition them to fear follow up F24 to get Ray out.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Premium Supporter
Yeah the jag moves are only good for not switching sides I'm combo. Kotal is shit without Kahn-cut and needs it as a base move with totem and Command Grab.
Yes the totems are akward AF and hard to call out bring on LT. I'd even be ok with BDF inputs if they needed too. Just make it amp button or A like you said.
if u have trouble using left trigger for totem u can also press db3+4, and for throwing instead of left button u can press 1+2
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I'm on XB1 and have a problem uploading videos so I'll try to share some sets. I don't think he is great but has potential. I think most don't know how to punish everything since it's only week 1.
Do you know how to set the AI to punish on wakeup like Sub Slide. I'm trying to test his God Ray setups in tournament variation off combo cancels and launchers like F34 which seems to be the best way but so far I have to condition them to fear follow up F24 to get Ray out.
You can't set it on wakeup bc slide isn't a wakeup.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
What I feel Kotal needs:

Reduced recovery on:

Sun/God Ray
Ground pound
Panther dance
Totems

Hitbox fixed on:
F2 (Reactible 22f mid)

Add Kahn-cut as a base move to help all variations.

Do you all agree or disagree with me on suggested fixes? He struggles to do what many other characters do for free. Is it too early to ask for adjustments? I originally made the thread to get tech from other Kotal mains not to ask for buffs.
Sonya, Jacqui, Erron, Cassie, Geras and Baraka are ten times the character Kotal is.

It would help if practice allowed us to set AI to wake up special like X so I can practice combo set-ups into Sun-Ray. But since 11 doesn't have wakeup Special I don't know how to practice it other than online.
 

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
It would help if practice allowed us to set AI to wake up special like X so I can practice combo set-ups into Sun-Ray. But since 11 doesn't have wakeup Special I don't know how to practice it other than online.
Why not just record yourself doing whatever setup you want to test, and then control the other character and try to punish (e.g., do slide with Sub-Zero immediately after getting up)
 

Slade

Make It Rain
So just to be clear, in his 2nd tourney variation, he only has 1 of his totems. Is that right? I believe it's the attack buff totem I think. I haven't messed around with Kotal too much, so I'm still trying to figure him out.

I honestly haven't even picked a main yet. I'm torn between a few characters, including Kotal lol I thought I was gonna have fun with totem/ray setups, but I may not. We will see. lol
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
What I feel Kotal needs:

Reduced recovery on:

Sun/God Ray
Ground pound
Panther dance
Totems

Hitbox fixed on:
F2 (Reactible 22f mid)

Add Kahn-cut as a base move to help all variations.

Do you all agree or disagree with me on suggested fixes? He struggles to do what many other characters do for free. Is it too early to ask for adjustments? I originally made the thread to get tech from other Kotal mains not to ask for buffs.
Sonya, Jacqui, Erron, Cassie, Geras and Baraka are ten times the character Kotal is.

It would help if practice allowed us to set AI to wake up special like X so I can practice combo set-ups into Sun-Ray. But since 11 doesn't have wakeup Special I don't know how to practice it other than online.
Heavily disagree.

The character is a very viable high mid tier. All he needs are some fixes, at least on his sun choke variation. The totem one needs some buffs to the jaguar.
 

Wrenchfarm

Lexcorp Proprietary Technologies
What I feel Kotal needs:

Reduced recovery on:

Sun/God Ray
Ground pound
Panther dance
Totems

Hitbox fixed on:
F2 (Reactible 22f mid)

Add Kahn-cut as a base move to help all variations.

Do you all agree or disagree with me on suggested fixes? He struggles to do what many other characters do for free. Is it too early to ask for adjustments? I originally made the thread to get tech from other Kotal mains not to ask for buffs.
Sonya, Jacqui, Erron, Cassie, Geras and Baraka are ten times the character Kotal is.

It would help if practice allowed us to set AI to wake up special like X so I can practice combo set-ups into Sun-Ray. But since 11 doesn't have wakeup Special I don't know how to practice it other than online.
I'd like to see the recovery shaved on the Totems and Sun ray. So far the only safe way to get a totem out seems to be cancelling into one off B22. Not sure if there is any safe way to get an amped sun ray out.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
So just to be clear, in his 2nd tourney variation, he only has 1 of his totems. Is that right? I believe it's the attack buff totem I think. I haven't messed around with Kotal too much, so I'm still trying to figure him out.

I honestly haven't even picked a main yet. I'm torn between a few characters, including Kotal lol I thought I was gonna have fun with totem/ray setups, but I may not. We will see. lol
His second tourny variation is complete trash. He has panther and panther with one totem the blood totem. So no combos but has B22 launcher into 20% but it's a slow high starter that has to be used far and best damage off his only base launcher B22 is B22, 34~DB2 Amplified. 25%

But in his Acension Tournament Variation he has Kahn-cut and Command Grab that gives him a meterless launcher something like Switch stance:
B22~DF2(Kahn-cut), F12~DB2(CG) 26%
F12~DF2, F12~DB2

Long range starters:

F24~DF2(Hit confirmable) 22f mid

Mid Range Starters

F12~DF2(Hit confirmable) 11f high
F3~DF2(Not Hit confirmable) 17f low

Close range starters:
Hasno close range mids

What I don't like about Acension is he has God Ray which replaces base move Sun Ray and makes his tracking Ray only far and even farther removing the capability to set it on Kotal for zoning.
On top of it his startup and recovery on Sun Ray, Ground Pound, is completely unsafe in fact the opponent can wake up and walk full screen for combo punish.
He lacks close game and is forced to use multiple pokes because the highs are slow to start or have too short of range (12 & 22 too short on first hit) and (34 is too slow 11f high with gap on second hit)

12~DF2(not hit confirmable) 8f high
22~DF2(Hit Confirmable) 9f high


So let's look at his normals speed and range:

12 - is 8f high with very short range, ant move will push Kotal out of range.
22 9f high first hit very short range similar to mkx Jacqui.

34 - 11 frame high can only reach close bit is too slow to use close.

F34 - 17f low good mid range shit up close.

F24 - can only be used for wiff punish half screen away. Never use close it's 22f mid.

F4 - great pushback like F24 but starts up 15 frames can't be used close only mid range.

B22 - very slow on startup but launches on hit, can only be used far, easily wiff punished because each hit take forever to come out, like he us swatting flys out of the air.

B223 - high, mid to Overhead, unsafe, like B22 can only be used mid range and is very punishable and can't launch for combo because of recovery and has a gap to FB.

F122 - 11 frame high mid overhead with gap, can't be used close, best used mid to long footsie range. Full combo punishable and flawless Block gap punishable.

F12 - 11 frame high to mid, one if his best starters used at mid range.

As you can see he has nothing but pokes close range and his D4 to get them out is slow so he lacks close up and suffers against zoners having a delay between disks and his Sun ray being full combo punishable midscreen.
 
I just picked up the game a couple days ago. My early thoughts on Kotal in 11.

  • Sun choke grab range too short
  • Sun choke damage buff is too short, why not perma?
  • No oki from Sun choke
  • Weak close game
  • Strong mid range game but not strong enough to keep players out effectively because of his slow start up times.
  • Sun ray start up is too slow
  • No + frames on block for any of his moves. Except I think 3 which is +1 on block.
  • Parry feels a lot better in 11 than it did X.
I know I'm pointing out negatives. But despite that, I'm enjoying Kotal in MK11. Hes feels like a combination of all his variations from X which is cool. Not sure were he will fall on the tier list this time around. Its much too early to tell.
 
I’ve noticed that pretty much every time I’ve lost it’s been my own fault. Once I’m totally comfortable with him getting zoned out won’t be as much of a problem and his close range will be easier.

When I totally land all of the perfect inputs with the right reads he feels so strong.

I will give a bit of sorta tech I’ve accidentally learned. Alternating from D1 tic throws into D1 parry has added a layer of guessing from the opponent up close. Getting that buff with a super quick punish has them conditioned into blocking after the D1 which leads to the tic throw.

I’m no pro, but learning him as much as I have has made me believe he’s being slept on because he’s not as easy to get wins with out of the gate.

Just my opinion. You da man Quark
 
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Reactions: Ram

Stuck

Mid Tier Whore. 1 combo and a dream.
I’ve noticed that pretty much every time I’ve lost it’s been my own fault. Once I’m totally comfortable with him getting zoned out won’t be as much of a problem and his close range will be easier.

When I totally land all of the perfect inputs with the right reads he feels so strong.

I will give a bit of sorta tech I’ve accidentally learned. Alternating from D1 tic throws into D1 parry has added a layer of guessing from the opponent up close. Getting that buff with a super quick punish has them conditioned into blocking after the D1 which leads to the tic throw.

I’m no pro, but learning him as much as I have has made me believe he’s being slept on because he’s not as easy to get wins with out of the gate.

Just my opinion. You da man Quark
Any videos of d1 parry? How does it work? Highs, mids, lows or all of the above? I’m assuming it’s plus on parry?
 

Lanqu

Noob
Speaking of Parry being better than in MKX -- may be it is me, but I struggle to activate parry in time when somebody like Scarlet or Kano is zonning me. Even at full screen it is damn hard.

Any videos of d1 parry? How does it work? Highs, mids, lows or all of the above? I’m assuming it’s plus on parry?
Everything except jumps and fatal blows, I believe.
Advantage differs based on the move you parried. Usually it is at least neutral, but for fast attacks like d1 or s1 it could be slightly minus after successful parry
But who ever does single hitting attacks (except for Kotal himself who sometimes throws f4 and s4)? Usually you parry 1st attack and then you either get staggered or eat a mixup from followup. There is an option to flawless block+reversal the 2nd hit of the string opponent is throwing at you, but good luck doing that