Question - Wrestler Oki after Quad Grap / Jax okizeme after KD

[TheGangstaFace]

I play on Hitbox, so those IA ground pounds are a breeze... @meanzuga has seen me hit them very low and very consistently. @The Slaj Jazz also goes up against them often. It can be very difficult for a lot of characters to deal with.

Before the otg nerf I was getting full Energy Wave + Ex GP damage, so around 21%~. Even with the nerf, the otg damage is only scaling off a single hit of Energy Wave, so I believe I was still getting around 15%+, though something with XL might want to test that. I'd say 15% full-screen damage is an economic use of meter; that's 45% damage for 3 meter.

I'll check here in a minute

 

[TheGangstaFace]

19% @karaokelove

 

[RoboCop]

19% @karaokelove

That's great! So 56% for 3 bars; not too shabby.

 

[RoboCop]

1.) midscreen, Gotcha throws them away, any attempts to close this gap will leave me negative, so its basically either a few frames off an energy wave start up, or approach and its a neutral reset... is there a better ender midscreen that allows me to keep my momentum going, string or special?

Have you tried ending midscreen combos with Energy Wave or Overhead Punch? Overhead Punch should leave you with enough advantage for pretty much anything (I think it's like +45~ advantage, depending on the combo; in Pumped Up it's enough for a guaranteed OtG pound). With Wrestler's lower Gotcha damage, seems like it could be worth it if you don't want the Quad ender.

 

[Belial]

Ending with Quad leaves you with HKD and +1, so your f2 will lose to quite a lot of stuff, not just low-profiling. The best option here is EX bf2d that kills all options except block and stay down (it will wiff midscreen leaving you safe). Other reliable option that will kill all meterless oki, including backdash is f3, which isnt safe on wiff. You can also check them with d4.

It gets better in the corner, of course, where you can use stuff like d3 that has great wiff revovery and b1, which is semi good against wakeup. You can even still try to crush armor that is 15 frames or slower via 12. Do not use ex dashpunch here though as it will reverse positions on wiff and unlike midscreen you'll get fullcomboed in the corner.

Best oki in the corner (and midscreen) comes from bf2d ender, pretty much anything is uniterruptible and you can setup any meaty you want into armorcrush. Gotcha also leaves you with enough advantage to set up d3-exgotcha or 123 armorbreaks.

 

[God Confirm]

Best oki in the corner (and midscreen) comes from bf2d ender, pretty much anything is uniterruptible and you can setup any meaty you want into armorcrush.

its tech rollable tho

 

[Tweedy]

So what's the deal with the hit advantage on it?

I'm seeing -2, +1, etc. On the frame data in game, the first portion "Quad Grab Towards", says -3. "Part 2", reads as -68 lol wut.

Also, is F212 d2+4 really -4?

 

[LaidbackOne]

So what's the deal with the hit advantage on it?

I'm seeing -2, +1, etc. On the frame data in game, the first portion "Quad Grab Towards", says -3. "Part 2", reads as -68 lol wut.

Also, is F212 d2+4 really -4?

Frame data on everything you listed is busted.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

So what's the deal with the hit advantage on it?

I'm seeing -2, +1, etc. On the frame data in game, the first portion "Quad Grab Towards", says -3. "Part 2", reads as -68 lol wut.

Also, is F212 d2+4 really -4?

I'm not 100% sure on the exact frame data but the hit advantage on Quad grab I believe is always -3 (tested this by seeing how fast my S1 comes out before Lao hits me with Ex Spin and the animation of my S1 doesn't even finish). F212 D2+4 is probably neutral. Again I'm not sure. I'm more sure of Quad Grab because ik for a fact it's impossible to armor break some wakeups that I normally can with 12. F212 D2+4 the exact hit advantage doesn't matter too much to me because unless you wake up, my meaty F3 3+4 will catch you and even if you plan on blocking and punishing I can Tick throw or Gotcha Grab after F3

 

[Undergroundepict]

For Wrestler and HW:

F212d2+4 for damage+corner carry.

GG for hit advantage and potential ground pound gimmicks. Advantage is largely negated mid-screen due to the distance it puts between you and your opponent. Does the least amount of damage. GG should be your only combo ender in the corner due to optimal hit advantage. Unless you like to use bf2d as an ender, which isn't really my thing but something I can understand the utility of.


Quad grab should be used for max damage, and to keep your enemy close as possible. It's generally my preferred option midscreen.


For Pumped Up you should always, always end in super gotcha. The restand is underrated in so many ways. Sure, it's only plus 3, but if you are willing to take some risks and throw some gimmicks out there you might find you have a lot more options than you thought. Super GG --> Ground Pound was literally my favorite thing in the world to do to people back when I mained Pumped Up.

 

[Belial]

Quad grab 2 hits is 100% +1 advantage

 

[God Confirm]

Quad grab 2 hits is 100% +1 advantage

thank you, thats very helpful

so its basically a neutral reset, except they get wake-up gimmicks


people really should respect that knockdown a lot less

 

[Undergroundepict]

Against knowledgeable opponents, I generally block after completing quad grab. People with matchup knowledge against Jax love to disrespect the knockdown on the assumption that I don't know that they know I'm negative. From here, you can return pressure/punish, and eventually condition them to simply delay wakeup, in effect gaining your advantage back.

This is highly subjective and dependent on both your opponent and your ability to condition him, however. The key takeaway, I suppose, is that you should almost always start off blocking after quad grab unless you know your opponent to be ignorant of Jax's frames.

 

[Belial]

I described post quad game in my first post in this thread.