Question - Wrestler Oki after Quad Grap / Jax okizeme after KD

[God Confirm]

I love this character, he truly is a mix god, everything about him is fun... EXCEPT for the fact that ending a combo in Quad Grap for max damage doesnt really guarantee you shit other than D1 and F2 against the right characters, and pressing any other button allows them to wake up with 11~full combo against you...
F2 solves that problem for the most part, but still loses out meterless to so much low profiling, and maybe that wouldn't be such a problem if the meta of this game was different and every second character wasn't a Mileena, add to that all the Slides / Krawls / Drills whatever being present for a large part of the cast, it's not something I want to go with, PLUS i want an ender with enough advantage to at least give me my 50/50, specially in the corner.


So I'm playing with ending with Gotcha, which is nice, B2 still gets beat but meh thats mostly irrelevant anyway because its unsafe anyway, B3 goes through so that's kinda nice.

This works in the corner, but leaves 2 areas in my game i could use advice with

1.) midscreen, Gotcha throws them away, any attempts to close this gap will leave me negative, so its basically either a few frames off an energy wave start up, or approach and its a neutral reset... is there a better ender midscreen that allows me to keep my momentum going, string or special?

2.) because Quad Grap is used for much more than just combo enders, I could still really use some advice for good follow ups and establishing a meta after tick throws



would love to get some discussion going on this topic, throw in ur 2 cents guys

 

[God Confirm]

@meanzuga @karaokelove @LaidbackOne @any other wrestler players

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I'm not 100% sure of what you're asking here. Oki game?

Okay midscreen I end all combos in the F2 string. On oki I F3, 2+4. If they delay wake up or backdash they get caught by this. If they block, most people honestly don't ever punish that string because of the pushback and block stun. Also F3 is good because if you make a read you can Tick throw.

If I end up in the corner or I'm already there with my combo, I end my combos in OH Dash Punch (stole that from Jupiter) because it makes them getup faster and its easier to time my D3, Ex Gotcha Grab for armor break.

If I perform a tick throw whenever it's difficult to armor break afterwards. I notice people who don't know the mu will hold a follow up. But people that know the mu typically try to armor and I just hold block and bait them. Or you could go for a D4 into pressure

P.S. When I asked "Oki?" Was cuz the title and the thread topic kinda lost me a little lol. My bad

 

[RoboCop]

@meanzuga @karaokelove @LaidbackOne @any other wrestler players

I currently only play Pumped Up, though that will change if the upcoming patch doesn't address otg damage.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I currently only play Pumped Up, though that will change if the upcoming patch doesn't address otg damage.

I tried to use Pumped Up again about a week ago and I just can't man...Maybe for fun but other than that there's no reason to use him imo. People bring up the restand but you also lose out on the better frames of Gotcha and you don't have as good of pressure as Heavy Weapons or Wrestler. Also OTG's as you said are practically useless and the other 2 variations at least get a pop up from their unblockable

 

[AcMilan91]

I love this character, he truly is a mix god, everything about him is fun... EXCEPT for the fact that ending a combo in Quad Grap for max damage doesnt really guarantee you shit other than D1 and F2 against the right characters, and pressing any other button allows them to wake up with 11~full combo against you...
F2 solves that problem for the most part, but still loses out meterless to so much low profiling, and maybe that wouldn't be such a problem if the meta of this game was different and every second character wasn't a Mileena, add to that all the Slides / Krawls / Drills whatever being present for a large part of the cast, it's not something I want to go with, PLUS i want an ender with enough advantage to at least give me my 50/50, specially in the corner.


So I'm playing with ending with Gotcha, which is nice, B2 still gets beat but meh thats mostly irrelevant anyway because its unsafe anyway, B3 goes through so that's kinda nice.

This works in the corner, but leaves 2 areas in my game i could use advice with

1.) midscreen, Gotcha throws them away, any attempts to close this gap will leave me negative, so its basically either a few frames off an energy wave start up, or approach and its a neutral reset... is there a better ender midscreen that allows me to keep my momentum going, string or special?

2.) because Quad Grap is used for much more than just combo enders, I could still really use some advice for good follow ups and establishing a meta after tick throws



would love to get some discussion going on this topic, throw in ur 2 cents guys

I am wrestler player,sometimes i use 12d3 tick throw for lols, there are alot of options, and btw i dont like to use f212 2+4 , i prefer f21 command grab if i get them in air, also i love Jax, my fav character since mk2

 

[Osagri]

I usually go to f3xxgg/quadgrab mix in mid.

 

[AcMilan91]

I usually go to f3xxgg/quadgrab mix in mid.

I love that too, it has gap, but i rarely get punished when do that, i hate when f3 grab whiff

 

[ismael4790]

I tried to use Pumped Up again about a week ago and I just can't man...Maybe for fun but other than that there's no reason to use him imo. People bring up the restand but you also lose out on the better frames of Gotcha and you don't have as good of pressure as Heavy Weapons or Wrestler. Also OTG's as you said are practically useless and the other 2 variations at least get a pop up from their unblockable

I also use Pumped up. Imo he is one of the most fair characters in the entire game. He could use some slight adjustmens, otgs are bad now for example, but if they buff him too much...danger. Maybe his + frames after gotcha restand should be a bit better to guarantee something, but other than that...
His gotcha and exgotcha are still really good giving a chunky amount of unbreakable damage, exgotcha is a very good reversal. And considering he is the easiest variation to use in terms of execution, he is pretty solid.

 

[Osagri]

I also use Pumped up. Imo he is one of the most fair characters in the entire game. He could use some slight adjustmens, otgs are bad now for example, but if they buff him too much...danger. Maybe his + frames after gotcha restand should be a bit better to guarantee something, but other than that...
His gotcha and exgotcha are still really good giving a chunky amount of unbreakable damage, exgotcha is a very good reversal. And considering he is the easiest variation to use in terms of execution, he is pretty solid.

I have always said that he's exgotcha is one of the best armored moves in the game.yes,it doesn't give full combo but its i7and it gives u,like u said unbreakable dmg. Example ur opponent has two bars and 30%life left. He jumps. BOOM! 24% UNBREAKABLE dmg to restand. Gg's

 

[God Confirm]

I am wrestler player,sometimes i use 12d3 tick throw for lols, there are alot of options, and btw i dont like to use f212 2+4 , i prefer f21 command grab if i get them in air, also i love Jax, my fav character since mk2

it gives less advantage than the quad grap ender, unfortunately, and has worse spacing

I have always said that he's exgotcha is one of the best armored moves in the game.yes,it doesn't give full combo but its i7and it gives u,like u said unbreakable dmg. Example ur opponent has two bars and 30%life left. He jumps. BOOM! 24% UNBREAKABLE dmg to restand. Gg's

you use ex gotcha as a combo ender? :O

I tried to use Pumped Up again about a week ago and I just can't man...Maybe for fun but other than that there's no reason to use him imo. People bring up the restand but you also lose out on the better frames of Gotcha and you don't have as good of pressure as Heavy Weapons or Wrestler. Also OTG's as you said are practically useless and the other 2 variations at least get a pop up from their unblockable

ill go you as far as the Unblockable, there is no way it isnt way better in pumped up, that move is an amazing projectile insta aired, in the other variations its borderline useless

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I also use Pumped up. Imo he is one of the most fair characters in the entire game. He could use some slight adjustmens, otgs are bad now for example, but if they buff him too much...danger. Maybe his + frames after gotcha restand should be a bit better to guarantee something, but other than that...
His gotcha and exgotcha are still really good giving a chunky amount of unbreakable damage, exgotcha is a very good reversal. And considering he is the easiest variation to use in terms of execution, he is pretty solid.

Fair in this game isn't good lol. There's no way to play safe with Pumped Up unless you do a Dash Punch (that's really risky, and technically a chunk of characters can still punish -7) or energy wave which always creates a gap. He gets 0 use out of F3 and he can't really make anything from D1,D2. His offense solely relies on his 50/50's to open you up and his restand is only really useful in the corner. Even then he's only at 3 hit advantage which means practically nothing. While characters like Ronin and Johnny get plenty of hit advantage on their restands

 

[TheGangstaFace]

it gives less advantage than the quad grap ender, unfortunately, and has worse spacing


you use ex gotcha as a combo ender? :O


ill go you as far as the Unblockable, there is no way it isnt way better in pumped up, that move is an amazing projectile insta aired, in the other variations its borderline useless

He was talking about Ex Gotcha in Pumped Up and false. If you catch people who don't react to the unblockable then it leads to a free meterless 28% midscreen and it's also good to throw people off. I've ended combos in the F2 string or in the neutral when it's scary to move sometimes and it'll catch them. As far as the instant airs go for Pumped Up, I can't do em so rip to me lol. I use a pad

 

[Osagri]

you use ex gotcha as a combo ender? :O

Only if I am sure that it will give me the round. I was talking about exgotcha as an AA and punishing things

 

[Osagri]

Fair in this game isn't good lol. There's no way to play safe with Pumped Up unless you do a Dash Punch (that's really risky, and technically a chunk of characters can still punish -7) or energy wave which always creates a gap. He gets 0 use out of F3 and he can't really make anything from D1,D2. His offense solely relies on his 50/50's to open you up and his restand is only really useful in the corner. Even then he's only at 3 hit advantage which means practically nothing. While characters like Ronin and Johnny get plenty of hit advantage on their restands

Well that's not entirely true. Jax has plenty of +frame moves on block in he's arsenal mixed with 0 or slightly minus. U rly shouldn't always cancel those into specials and many of he's strings are rly easy to hitconfirm. Also he's f3 is a great punisher on moves that have pushback on block. Example Sub's b2,kotals swords and so on. Yes, it is not as good in PU as it is in wrestler but it's not that good in HW either. If I remember correctly,even if u do law cancel it's still -15 on block

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Well that's not entirely true. Jax has plenty of +frame moves on block in he's arsenal mixed with 0 or slightly minus. U rly shouldn't always cancel those into specials and many of he's strings are rly easy to hitconfirm. Also he's f3 is a great punisher on moves that have pushback on block. Example Sub's b2,kotals swords and so on. Yes, it is not as good in PU as it is in wrestler but it's not that good in HW either. If I remember correctly,even if u do law cancel it's still -15 on block

I just use standing 1 to punish those examples you have honestly lol. Maybe a max range sub B2 you need F3 idk. And that can still be used to bait slow armor like Kotals Ex OH Sword

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Well that's not entirely true. Jax has plenty of +frame moves on block in he's arsenal mixed with 0 or slightly minus. U rly shouldn't always cancel those into specials and many of he's strings are rly easy to hitconfirm. Also he's f3 is a great punisher on moves that have pushback on block. Example Sub's b2,kotals swords and so on. Yes, it is not as good in PU as it is in wrestler but it's not that good in HW either. If I remember correctly,even if u do law cancel it's still -15 on block

Also he's +2 on 11, and F12, and 0 on F1. That doesn't really do anything for him. S1 Is a high (get poked under) and 0 on block is just 0 lol

 

[Osagri]

Also he's +2 on 11, and F12, and 0 on F1. That doesn't really do anything for him. S1 Is a high (get poked under) and 0 on block is just 0 lol

The point was that u don't have to play unsafe with PU. Plus frames are plus. U have the advantage.

 

[Osagri]

I just use standing 1 to punish those examples you have honestly lol. Maybe a max range sub B2 you need F3 idk. And that can still be used to bait slow armor like Kotals Ex OH Sword

And being -15 u realy don't have to use slow armoured reversals

 

[TheGangstaFace]

And being -15 u realy don't have to use slow armoured reversals

In regards to the first response, yeah he's + but most of the cast is doing a full string into a safe option to do better chip and to do better meter building. Doing a regular 11 is %1 chip and builds like no meter whatsoever and it doesn't give you anything except a D1 check but even that's a slim chance because it has bad range.

I suppose I kinda drifted off the safe thing but it just kinda segways into another problem with Pumped Up lol

The -15 thing, that's true, don't have to armor lol

 

[RoboCop]

I tried to use Pumped Up again about a week ago and I just can't man...Maybe for fun but other than that there's no reason to use him imo. People bring up the restand but you also lose out on the better frames of Gotcha and you don't have as good of pressure as Heavy Weapons or Wrestler. Also OTG's as you said are practically useless and the other 2 variations at least get a pop up from their unblockable

Fair in this game isn't good lol. There's no way to play safe with Pumped Up unless you do a Dash Punch (that's really risky, and technically a chunk of characters can still punish -7) or energy wave which always creates a gap. He gets 0 use out of F3 and he can't really make anything from D1,D2. His offense solely relies on his 50/50's to open you up and his restand is only really useful in the corner. Even then he's only at 3 hit advantage which means practically nothing. While characters like Ronin and Johnny get plenty of hit advantage on their restands

There are three things that keep me coming back to PU: raw damage output, corner restand, and instant-air ground pounds. Those things can be done so low to the ground that Pumped Up's zoning is significantly stronger than Wrestler and possible even HW. Wrestler can put out some damage with enough meter, but PU can get those numbers meterlessly, allowing for more breakers and midscreen damage.

I'll also say that f3~Gotcha or EX Gotca is a solid chunk of damage for a mostly-safe 10-frame move that crushes pokes. f3 Overhead Punch or Ex Overhead Punch is also a great punisher. Same with d1d2. Basically, anything he can link into his boosted Gotcha is going to be worth it. After my corner restands I'll do 123~Gotcha a lot of the time for a very solid chunk of damage.

I don't currently have the most recent build (PC player), but I believe he also still gets decent otg damage after an anti-air Energy Wave. Due to the nature of his zoning and IA Ground Pound, it's very easy to trick the opponent into jumping, catch them with an Energy Wave, and then an EX GP otg for a big chunk of damage while sending them back to full screen. His zoning really is solid.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

There are three things that keep me coming back to PU: raw damage output, corner restand, and instant-air ground pounds. Those things can be done so low to the ground that Pumped Up's zoning is significantly stronger than Wrestler and possible even HW. Wrestler can put out some damage with enough meter, but PU can get those numbers meterlessly, allowing for more breakers and midscreen damage.

I'll also say that f3~Gotcha or EX Gotca is a solid chunk of damage for a mostly-safe 10-frame move that crushes pokes. f3 Overhead Punch or Ex Overhead Punch is also a great punisher. Same with d1d2. Basically, anything he can link into his boosted Gotcha is going to be worth it. After my corner restands I'll do 123~Gotcha a lot of the time for a very solid chunk of damage.

I don't currently have the most recent build (PC player), but I believe he also still gets decent otg damage after an anti-air Energy Wave. Due to the nature of his zoning and IA Ground Pound, it's very easy to trick the opponent into jumping, catch them with an Energy Wave, and then an EX GP otg for a big chunk of damage while sending them back to full screen. His zoning really is solid.

See you're on PC. So you can get those instant airs. I'm a scrub and can't get em lol. Also since you're on PC (I picked Jax up after XL so I'm not 100% sure on this) but I believe Jax's D3 got nerfed in XL so his pressure isn't as good as I heard it used to be and you know people bring up the energy wave, ground pound combo but how much are you getting from that for a bar? Which Jax needs midscreen because he also builds the least amount of meter probably out of all his variations

 

[Osagri]

See you're on PC. So you can get those instant airs. I'm a scrub and can't get em lol. Also since you're on PC (I picked Jax up after XL so I'm not 100% sure on this) but I believe Jax's D3 got nerfed in XL so his pressure isn't as good as I heard it used to be and you know people bring up the energy wave, ground pound combo but how much are you getting from that for a bar? Which Jax needs midscreen because he also builds the least amount of meter probably out of all his variations

D3 was 0 on block, now its -2 sadly I'm a pad player and and I got iagp down. Ofc I have to practice it every time before I go play online or I don't get it so low off the ground. Its hard but it can be done. Also I remember that someone had some kind of a trick to it with pad. It had something to do with left analog stick

 

[RoboCop]

See you're on PC. So you can get those instant airs. I'm a scrub and can't get em lol. Also since you're on PC (I picked Jax up after XL so I'm not 100% sure on this) but I believe Jax's D3 got nerfed in XL so his pressure isn't as good as I heard it used to be and you know people bring up the energy wave, ground pound combo but how much are you getting from that for a bar? Which Jax needs midscreen because he also builds the least amount of meter probably out of all his variations

I play on Hitbox, so those IA ground pounds are a breeze... @meanzuga has seen me hit them very low and very consistently. @The Slaj Jazz also goes up against them often. It can be very difficult for a lot of characters to deal with.

Before the otg nerf I was getting full Energy Wave + Ex GP damage, so around 21%~. Even with the nerf, the otg damage is only scaling off a single hit of Energy Wave, so I believe I was still getting around 15%+, though something with XL might want to test that. I'd say 15% full-screen damage is an economic use of meter; that's 45% damage for 3 meter.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

D3 was 0 on block, now its -2 sadly I'm a pad player and and I got iagp down. Ofc I have to practice it every time before I go play online or I don't get it so low off the ground. Its hard but it can be done. Also I remember that someone had some kind of a trick to it with pad. It had something to do with left analog stick

Yeah i heard the stick trick. I tried and it's hard as balls fam