NRS does not acknowledge this website as something they follow.

[KingHippo]

I wonder if people will still complain of white privilege when white people are the minority in this country which is going to happen in the very near future. My guess is yes.

I'm glad the majority of people in this country do not think like Sage Leviathan. The fact that you think Sargan of Akkad panders to neo nazis is the craziest thing I've ever heard. Have you actually watched his videos? He preaches equality for all as does Jordan Perterson. Peterson has only said you shouldn't have to be forced to use pronouns which is what Canada is trying to do.

Indeed, what is happening on this site. Let's see if the Tym moderators believe in free speech or will I get an infraction for such an innocent post.

Talking about white erasure probably isn't breaking any rules, but you should just put a clown emoji in their profile pic for the rest of the time they're on this site

 

[Juggs]

Well I know at least one person on staff has been pretty up front about the transphobia, which is also across Reddit and Gamefaqs

Okay. Can you please either PM me who or tell me outright? Thank you.

 

[KingHippo]

I meant a person on NRS staff about why they don't look at this site and others

 

[Juggs]

I meant a person on NRS staff about why they don't look at this site and others

Oh I see, I misread what you said, my mistake. I have tried my best to purge any discrimination, including transphobia of course, and urged users to use the report function. As I’ve said, we want TYM to be welcoming to everyone. The only thing we do not welcome is bigotry, prejudice and discrimination (as well as other stuff that’s in the rules obviously).

But since we can’t auto delete what is said, I can completely understand how someone who sees the transphobia before we are able to purge it would rather not even bother coming here. That must be devastating to their mental health when all they want to do is discuss some video games.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Well I know at least one person on staff has been pretty up front about the transphobia, which is also across Reddit and Gamefaqs

I meant a person on NRS staff about why they don't look at this site and others

Thanks for corroborating the fact that there's more to it than just user numbers or whatever.

I did close that thread, and we make an effort to deal with outright cultural/social attacks pretty stiffly. But you can't thought-police people to the extreme, and I can understand not wanting to deal with it at all.

 

[Arqwart]

Thanks for corroborating the fact that there's more to it than just user numbers or whatever.

I did close that thread, and we make an effort to deal with outright cultural/social attacks pretty stiffly. But you can't thought-police people to the extreme, and I can understand not wanting to deal with it at all.

I know it's fully off topic talking about this, but I do wanna thank yall for the hard work in keeping things at least semi-civil and cracking down on such genuine hatred. I won't claim to know the hardship of being a transwoman, but being a homosexual male and seeing that sort of hate posted here is equal parts infuriating and scary.

As for the topic on hand, I honestly cannot believe this thread blew up the way it did in any way. Like holy fuck. NRS, in the spur of the moment, listing out common sources of feedback (which were all extremely generic platforms, not specific sites/people/groups/subreddits/whatever) and not including a traditional old school style forum is grounds for debate and a panicked OP? It is 2019. Social media RULES modern electronic communication and has for years. I highly doubt it's a matter of "not earning their respect" or this place being a "graveyard" or "a laughing stock and disrespected place in the FGC." It's simply a place for 2005-2010 style internet discussion in a 2019 world. Please don't take a random, non-pre-planned comment during a livestream as some passive aggressive attack on the TYM community.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Okay I know you have PMed me but once again this needs to be said publicly, Sargon of Akkad is a fucking clown. Get that shit out of here.

This is a guy who responded to a politician talking about commonly receiving rape threats with "I wouldn't even rape you #feminismiscancer" and then when asked to apologize said actually he might rape her but "nobody's got that much beer".

I wonder if people will still complain of white privilege when white people are the minority in this country which is going to happen in the very near future. My guess is yes.

I'm glad the majority of people in this country do not think like Sage Leviathan. The fact that you think Sargan of Akkad panders to neo nazis is the craziest thing I've ever heard. Have you actually watched his videos? He preaches equality for all as does Jordan Perterson. Peterson has only said you shouldn't have to be forced to use pronouns which is what Canada is trying to do.

Indeed, what is happening on this site. Let's see if the Tym moderators believe in free speech or will I get an infraction for such an innocent post.

This person literally fucking used a white supremacist talking point fear mongering about white people becoming the minority.

If you do any sort of research on this guy you will see that he absolutely does pander to alt right neo-nazi conspiracy theorists. Sargon of Akkad went on Info Wars, that show done by Alex Jones who is being sued for pushing a conspiracy theory that the Sandy Hook shooting didn't happen. Sargon of Akkad is directly linked to circles including people like Mike Cernovich who is on record as saying "tolerance only went one way and diversity is code for white genocide". Sargon of Akkad has been openly endorsed by the English Defense League - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Defence_League - which political scientists Dominic Alessio and Meredith Kristen have argued "embodied key characteristics of fascism". If you think his audience doesn't have a huge overlap with far right conspiracy theorist neo-nazi etc. whatever you want to call it, you are kidding yourself.

@STORMS @Juggs @CrimsonShadow

This is not the time for worrying about "thought policing" or making sure we hear out what people have to say - get this bigoted bullshit off of the site. If it doesn't break the rules then it is time for new rules.

 

[M2Dave]

This is not the time for worrying about "thought policing" or making sure we hear out what people have to say - get this bigoted bullshit off of the site. If it doesn't break the rules then it is time for new rules.

If I may add my perspective as a contributor of the website, no thank you. I support everyone's speech, even if I vehemently disagree, as long as the current rules are followed. TYM ought not be anyone's "safe space".

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

If I may add my perspective as a contributor of the website, no thank you. I support everyone's speech, even if I vehemently disagree, as long as the current rules are followed. TYM ought not be anyone's "safe space".

I will certainly recognize that this is a bit contentious and a full discussion of it at the very least is out of scope for this thread. That being said just a few quick things and maybe if more people are interested in further discussion there can be another thread or a PM:

In my opinion this is a bit of a bait and switch on the concept of free speech. They can say whatever they want, I am saying TYM should not be obligated to (and in my opinion would be morally right in not) giving them a platform to push these ideas. Especially considering that they are ideas that have been thoroughly debunked time and time again - the way these things get support specifically rely on misinformation and people coming across the ideas in places where their guard is down ideologically and they aren't prepared to fight back against the rhetorical bullshit being used. It relies on slipping in false assumptions under the radar while you aren't paying attention and it being incredibly difficult to debunk on the spot. Like even just to post that one reply I watched a few of Sargon's videos and some responses and read some information about him because even as someone who is pretty politically active online there is no way I am ready at a moment's notice to accurately fight back against the misinformation. The free speech we are worrying about protecting here is not in good faith and is designed to take advantage of the concern over protecting free speech to slip in some really dangerous ideas.

I don't understand why the current rules have any particular importance. There are certainly rules now about what you can and can't say on here, why do you think the current level of limiting speech is the correct amount?

This isn't accusing you of in particular of doing this on purpose but the term "safe space" is not quite being used correctly here. Originally it was supposed to designate a way to actually help protect free speech by giving marginalized groups spaces that they could actually air their grievances and talk about their experiences as part of those marginalized groups. The term was basically co-opted by right wing trolls and turned around on those groups - and now we have the negative connotation associated with the phrase like you used it. Similarly the term "triggered" had a genuine psychological usage to describe something that "triggered" memories of traumatic experiences - originally in trying to understand what they called shell shock in regards to World War 1. Once again the term has been taken and weaponized by a group to complain about "snowflakes" that don't care about free speech. But like clearly I am not super offended or "triggered" and afraid of interacting with this stuff. If anything it should be clear that I somewhat actively seek this fight out. But that isn't the narrative the connotation in your use of "safe space" gives us. The reason I want to point this out is because it is a great example of the bait and switch I was alluding to earlier. Those terms are part of a trick to make you think the right wing is the one who cares about free speech. But trust me - the fascists do not care about free speech unless it is their own.

 

[M2Dave]

I don't understand why the current rules have any particular importance. There are certainly rules now about what you can and can't say on here, why do you think the current level of limiting speech is the correct amount?

The current rules are imperfect, but they already address issues that you seem to be concerned about.

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws."

What else would you add?

I would personally remove the phrase "likely to offend" because of its subjectivity. Speech that offends you may not offend me. All the other facets of the rule are common to all fighting game forums.

Those terms are part of a trick to make you think the right wing is the one who cares about free speech. But trust me - the fascists do not care about free speech unless it is their own.

I agree.

But neither does the far left unless you subscribe to all social issues the manner in which they want you to.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Alright. Let me sum up my grievances. I'll even write in white so it's easier to read.

The thread was curious as to why Tyler Lansdown did not list TYM as a site NRS surveys for player feedback. It's already been discussed that it was probably a minor error. Or maybe it wasn't. The topic then shifted to evaluations and judgments of TYM; if NRS really doesn't come here, what are some reasons they would avoid this place?

And then I listed some rather upsetting contributions made to the site earlier this year (and concurrently). Some people show up with a Jordan Peterson quote and a Sargon video and I disparage it because... why wouldn't I? It's offensive vitriol and a sunlit exposure to racist, sexist, homophobic ideas.

In response, someone very seriously tells me that they believe in their heart of hearts that white Americans will become an ethnic minority "in the very near future." This is verbatim white supremacist rhetoric. It is a scare tactic to subscribe people to a white nationalist ideology.

Currently this post is unedited, not deleted, and I do not believe the user has been warned, infracted, or at the very least told to not discuss these ideas further.

And here comes Dave to say this:

...I support everyone's speech, even if I vehemently disagree, as long as the current rules are followed. TYM ought not be anyone's "safe space".

See @HGTV Soapboxfan 's post above.

"But just because you disagree with what someone says doesn't mean their speech needs to be policed, or their platform to speak removed."

Riddle me this, mods (and I'm seeking mods specifically to reply since you are the arbiters of this forum; I'll even report my own post so you all get pinged): if you worked for Netherrealm Studios in any branch of development, would you want to come here and see this content? Does this particularly invite you, as a company representative, to seek my opinion?

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

The current rules are imperfect, but they already address issues that you seem to be concerned about.

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws."

What else would you add?

I would personally remove the phrase "likely to offend" because of its subjectivity. Speech that offends you may not offend me. All the other facets of the rule are common to all fighting game forums.



I agree.

But neither does the far left unless you subscribe to all social issues the manner in which they want you to.

Remember I said if it doesn't break the rules then it is time to change the rules. Now imo both of the posts I quoted would fit the description and I think they should be taken down or edited and that there should be infractions - for SURE the second one with the white supremacist rhetoric. As of right now both of them are still up - to be fair it is late at night now but also the lead moderator Juggs did post in this thread after both of those posts so he presumably did read them. So at the very least it isn't an infract on sight situation, I am not going to assume just yet that them still being up means they have been considered inside the rules, but I am saying if that is the case then in my opinion the rules should change.

I am not like trying to bash Juggs or any of the mods here or something either. The difficulty of effectively moderating with limited volunteer staff is well documented and this is complicated stuff. Just asking questions and giving my opinion.

I also don't love "likely to offend" because it also kind of feeds into the nonsense that shitty people like to use as a defense. The "Oh no did I offend you? Too bad facts don't care about your feelings!" type of crap that they then use to call the mods SJWs that can't handle the truth. And I think hopefully the other qualifications should cover anything that is likely to offend anyway. But that is just nitpicking.

I guess the question that would simplify our discussion is do you think either of the two posts I was originally referencing require moderation? I obviously do.

 

[KingHippo]

I would also say that just because someone doesn't put their words in a callous and cruel way or outright say "I hate [blank,]" doesn't mean it can't be hateful. Indeed, a key tactic by many is to cloud their words with appeals to "logic," or appeals to "get politics out of here" in order to really just say "I don't like this and don't want to see it." I think any time you have someone who is just saying these things just to say them, you foster an unhealthy community because if it goes unchecked, they'll just keep doing it again and again, and before you know it, you've got this bad reputation amongst marginalized groups that the community isn't really the best place to be around.

I mean, these are just from the 16 Bit congratulatory thread, all of which use the tactics I just described to belittle or otherwise attempt to knowingly make someone uncomfortable on the basis of their gender identity, which should always be against the rules of any subcommunity:

(Look who liked that one, big shocker!)












(This is TERF trash)

 

[MsMiharo]

People are really out here standing up for the right to spread white supremacy conspiracy theories? That's really what you want to do with your time? In a thread on why people don't want to come to TYM?

Should I tell them? I mean they're so close to figuring it out on their own. I'll let them figure it out on their own.

 

[appo]

there is a time where threads should be closed, especially ones which actually have nothing to do with mortal kombat 11 in the subsektion of it.
this is a forum for videogames, how about you keep your believes or politics to yourself and invest your time here to talk about the games. everyone would benefit from it.

 

[Komatose]

Sounds like they don’t look anywhere besides social media. But tbh no matter where they look they’ll find more trash than anything constructive lol. Forums, YT, social media, doesn’t matter.

 

[Komatose]

Reading more of the replies on this thread gave me brain cancer lol

 

[STORMS]

It today's stream discussion about the third variation a moment came up where Tyler stated, "We follow the twitter, the discord and the reddit." How did testyourmight fall so low as to not even be on the radar or get a shout out from NRS. A very long site dedicated to their games has been unable to earn their respect.

I suggest;

• a tym tournament series
• a tym competitive sponsor
• improved moderation and character forums
• more stories like event hubs including NRS staff Q&A's, top player profile pieces and interviews
• attempt to get a big name reinvolved in the site like Mr. Aquaman and have him run a tournament serioes

As it stands, this site truly is a graveyard, laughing stock and disrespected place in the FGC. Sad times.

To reply to this thread at it's core... I have actually reached out to a member of NRS asking why we never see them anymore. Why I asked? We are one of the only NRS-exclusive forums... etc. Just like many of you, it was annoying to not kn ow why we're now being ignored and not getting any recognition from streams, etc.

Without giving the name, position, etc of this person... they basically told me that over the years their job had changed and was geared towards the more "mass-audience", hence why a lot of focus has turned towards Reddit.

However, with anything in life... seriously, you have ups and downs, things change, etc. Top players going to Twitch and YouTube exclusively is very smart of them... that is how they are making a living.

Lastly, all of these things that you speak of i.e. a sponsor, tournament series, etc... those things require $. TYM is self-sustained through ads from traffic... it's not what I take my family to dinner on.

If ANYONE wants to be more involved in the community... take the initiative. TYM is here for you to use to get the word out, be your hub for discussion, etc.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

1. Y'all need to calm down.
2. I've been asking since release about things I can do to benefit the community, nobody ever takes me up on it. So once again, I love Mortal Kombat and the FGC, and if I can help I will. What kind of content do y'all want to see? How can I help?

 

[Qwark28]

Y'all know how it is for web forums nowadays, they're way behind Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, & Discord. I miss them too, and I still come here sometimes to see if anything interesting is happening, but I know where most of the discussion is taking place and it's not here anymore. This is not a TYM or NRS issue as much as it is a modern internet culture issue.

I wonder what the median age is of people who still regularly come here. I bet it's getting pretty close to the big 3-0

24, and been on this site since I was 16.

Absolutely hate and dislike the state of it in the past few years, outside of internet culture issues.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

can we please close this thread?
....

 

[Eldriken]

Anyone wanna explain how this became a discussion about anything other than what the topic was about? Anyone?

This is becoming so. effing. stupid. Thread closed since people insist they act like children.