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Noob Saibot Matchup Discussion Thread

Hitoshura

Head Cage
This thread is dedicated to discussing Noob Saibot's Matchup numbers with the community. Matchup numbers are determined by having two players of equal and competent skill levels compete against one another in a set of 10 matches. Their insight on the character they play and the game must be fleshed out. The player who plays a specific character must know all, if not most, of their characters tools. Matchup numbers will take time to create, so I will not have the original posts numbers added until maybe a month has passed, minus the mirror match with is always a 5-5, so theory discussion is encouraged to not only share insight on what the matchup could potentially be, but to look out for certain tools other characters may posses; however, the matchup numbers on this original post will not change until some of these theories are put to the test. I ask for patience because there will be Noob mains who will disagree on ideas being thrown out, so please be civil with other Noob mains.

Matchup numbers will consistently change based on new tools we find with Noob or within the game. The goal is to have a finalized matchup chart when the game is fully fleshed out which could take close to a year.

Noob Saibot's Matchup Numbers:

Baraka:
Cassie Cage:
Cetrion:
D'Vorah:
Erron Black:
Geras:
Jacqui Briggs:
Jade:
Jax Briggs:
Johnny Cage:
Kabal:
Kano:
Kitana:
Kotal Khan:
Kollector:
Kung Lao:
Liu Kang:
Noob Saibot: 5-5
Raiden:
Scorpion:
Shang Tsung:
Skarlet:
Sonya Blade:
Sub-Zero:
 

Sensator

Noob
Can anyone give me some tips on vsing Jade? Seems like every string she does is near unpunishable. My only success vs her is to keep her at mid range with B3 and occasional projectiles. If I get into a corner I have no idea how to escape, the vortex is real.
 
Can anyone give me some tips on vsing Jade? Seems like every string she does is near unpunishable. My only success vs her is to keep her at mid range with B3 and occasional projectiles. If I get into a corner I have no idea how to escape, the vortex is real.
It’s just a bad match up at the moment. Her anti-zone buff, combined with her outranging noob and being either safe or having good push back makes it a bad time. I went like over a dozen matches in competitive casuals with a not even especially good Jade player and felt like I couldn’t do anything a lot of the times. I took maybe 3 matches. You have to be super patient, block well, and wait for her to slip up or whiff and punish. You can try an read when she is going to do the anti-projectile buff when you try zoning and tele for a combo. I had luck with this one mixing jump ins, low pokes, the 112 string, and throws. Not sure that would work well against a better Jade player though. This one actually did not seem to know to block low always pretty much because doing so combined with her ridiculous d2 would make the above strategy not work really. Only real option then is patience, good blocking, and waiting or trying to bait out mistakes or whiffs to punish I have found. Gets real easy to get predictable though with your limited options : /. Her and Scorpion and really anyone with good pressure with a tele or anti/counter zoning option are nightmare matchups atm.....unfortunately everyone has gravitated to those characters early too. I think he needs some love. Needs some type of mixup option or viable solid mid starter/punish option and his zoning needs some love if that’s how they want him to play.
 
Does anyone else think who can and cannot punish B1,1+3 will be a big factor in the matchups? I think once all the Kanos and Johnny Cages and Sub-Zeros gain the matchup knowledge, fighting these characters means your only mid starting string is unsafe. And they'll get the punish every time because of the reversal system that lets you buffer their charge attacks during block stun. Every time I fight these characters online I know they could be punishing me if they knew the frame data.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Does anyone else think who can and cannot punish B1,1+3 will be a big factor in the matchups?
Yes. Fortunately, Kano's ball and Sub Zero's shoulder are inconsistent while some other advancing forward moves always punish reliably. The most notable ones are Cage's and Jade's shadow kicks, Jacqui's dash punch, Liu Kang's flying kick, Geras's sand pillar, and Sub Zero's slide, but there may be a couple more that I am forgetting.

Another big (and irritating) factor is the low-profiling of Noob's u+3 on wake up. Bad karma from using Atom in Injustice, I guess. LOL.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Does anyone have any experience fighting Kitana as Noob. I've always had problems playing against her in MK. I don't know why, but I find her terrifying. Her ass slam is safe on block as it pushes her away. Even f2 doesn't connect. The trade war with her hurts, she seems safe on her string and her pokes are just as good as ours. Anything I'm missing?

@M2Dave , @Trini_Bwoi , @D. R.
 
Does anyone have any experience fighting Kitana as Noob. I've always had problems playing against her in MK. I don't know why, but I find her terrifying. Her ass slam is safe on block as it pushes her away. Even f2 doesn't connect. The trade war with her hurts, she seems safe on her string and her pokes are just as good as ours. Anything I'm missing?

@M2Dave , @Trini_Bwoi , @D. R.
I haven't fought many Kitanas yet, her ass slam is pretty negative tho, even with the pushback there's enough time to dash forward 1,1,3
 

xKMMx

Banned
Does anyone have any experience fighting Kitana as Noob. I've always had problems playing against her in MK. I don't know why, but I find her terrifying. Her ass slam is safe on block as it pushes her away. Even f2 doesn't connect. The trade war with her hurts, she seems safe on her string and her pokes are just as good as ours. Anything I'm missing?

@M2Dave , @Trini_Bwoi , @D. R.
Not sure man. IVe played two really good Kitanas so far and felt kinda helpless both times since I didn't know the match up. Havent had a chance to lab her yet but its on my agenda for this weekend.
 
Does anyone else think who can and cannot punish B1,1+3 will be a big factor in the matchups? I think once all the Kanos and Johnny Cages and Sub-Zeros gain the matchup knowledge, fighting these characters means your only mid starting string is unsafe. And they'll get the punish every time because of the reversal system that lets you buffer their charge attacks during block stun. Every time I fight these characters online I know they could be punishing me if they knew the frame data.
While true its our only mid starter string, we play a character that doesn't have to take risks if need be. We can reliably punish most of the cast when they do make a mistake on whiff or on block. That's the beauty of this character. We can play as safe(defensive/dry/lame) as need be in most situations, simply because there are tools Noob has that you just have to respect. I do however feel that characters that can get around having to deal with him at close/midrange and enact their gameplan without have to deal with his tools(we know who they are) will be the problems. Even in those unfavorable MUs, they still have to be on point with their hitconfirms/mixups because anything -7 or worse that doesn't pushback(and even some moves that do pushback) can lead to easy 35% with Noob right outside most d1 ranges at +5. IMO unless something drastic that is discovered, I feel he can handle any match in the game. That's just my take though.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
While true its our only mid starter string, we play a character that doesn't have to take risks if need be. We can reliably punish most of the cast when they do make a mistake on whiff or on block. That's the beauty of this character. We can play as safe(defensive/dry/lame) as need be in most situations, simply because there are tools Noob has that you just have to respect. I do however feel that characters that can get around having to deal with him at close/midrange and enact their gameplan without have to deal with his tools(we know who they are) will be the problems. Even in those unfavorable MUs, they still have to be on point with their hitconfirms/mixups because anything -7 or worse that doesn't pushback(and even some moves that do pushback) can lead to easy 35% with Noob right outside most d1 ranges at +5. IMO unless something drastic that is discovered, I feel he can handle any match in the game. That's just my take though.
What character do you think get around having to deal with his tools up close/midrange that are problems for him? I've been having some resistance in playing against Skarlet. We can teleslam most of her projectiles, but when it comes to the midrange game Noob struggles against her.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
We can teleslam most of her projectiles, but when it comes to the midrange game Noob struggles against her.
Are you punishing the projectiles on reaction? To me, the teleport is too slow in order to do so consistently. I have been using Scorpion recently, and the difference between the teleports is enormous. Even while under the influence of various recreational drugs, you can still react to and punish almost all projectiles with Scorpion's teleport. LOL.

Speaking of the mid range game, do you, or anyone else for that matter, struggle against characters who can punish b+1,1+3 on block? Geras punishes with a krushing blow quick sand for 31%. LOL. You lose your best check after d+3 hits which affects your throw game.

And sorry for the lack of a reply. I have no experience fighting Kitana.
 
What character do you think get around having to deal with his tools up close/midrange that are problems for him? I've been having some resistance in playing against Skarlet. We can teleslam most of her projectiles, but when it comes to the midrange game Noob struggles against her.
Any character that can either outzone him/operate outside b2 range. One of his big strengths is the ability to control midrange. B2 just destroys any kind of shimmy, and when you mix it in with b3/d4, I find myself conditioning the opponent to not do anything if at negative frames, which opens them up for throw attempts, and an occasional b1/b2 check if they try to mash d2/d1 to beat the throw attempt. SZ, Erron, Skarlet immediately come to mind. Not too knowledgeable on the Jade MU, but just off of glance at her frames/ moveset she seems to be a possible bad match, but please correct me if im wrong. I do believe however Trini is right about b1, 1+3 punishment being a huge factor in MUs. Not in the sense of it being punished on block but moreso on whiff. Outside of the aforementioned three, I get good mileage out of whiffing b1 just to catch the opponent trying to move in/counter poke with the 1+3 followup. The characters that can punish that and relegate it to a hit confirm/punish tool already have a good advantage. There's a lot of characters I can't comment on due to lack of experience though. I just know I'm at a loss against Erron. I welcome any tips on that fight lol.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Any character that can either outzone him/operate outside b2 range. One of his big strengths is the ability to control midrange. B2 just destroys any kind of shimmy, and when you mix it in with b3/d4, I find myself conditioning the opponent to not do anything if at negative frames, which opens them up for throw attempts, and an occasional b1/b2 check if they try to mash d2/d1 to beat the throw attempt. SZ, Erron, Skarlet immediately come to mind. Not too knowledgeable on the Jade MU, but just off of glance at her frames/ moveset she seems to be a possible bad match, but please correct me if im wrong. I do believe however Trini is right about b1, 1+3 punishment being a huge factor in MUs. Not in the sense of it being punished on block but moreso on whiff. Outside of the aforementioned three, I get good mileage out of whiffing b1 just to catch the opponent trying to move in/counter poke with the 1+3 followup. The characters that can punish that and relegate it to a hit confirm/punish tool already have a good advantage. There's a lot of characters I can't comment on due to lack of experience though. I just know I'm at a loss against Erron. I welcome any tips on that fight lol.
I find fighting against Sub-Zero to be not too difficult, although I've only faced against 1 and it was his dead of winter variation. His overhead is punishable on block and so is his ice ball. Outside of that he is very safe. I try to space myself to have him whiff shoulder charge and punish accordingly. It's a matchup that requires patience.

In terms of zoners, I'd disagree. We can teleslam projectiles if we see them come out. Noob is not a zoner. He has spirit ball as a zoning tool, but that's it. Zoning isn't his game plan anymore. He is a character that is more focussed good neutrals and punishes. I feel like Skarlet gives us problems because once we're in midrange she has a lot of range to stop our attempts to take control of the space. This is a matchup that requires a lot of patience.

In terms of other zoners, I feel Centrion isn't a bad matchup at all. I played against a friend's Centrion, who is really skillful at fighting games, and I found the matchup to be about even. Again, you're going to need patience for this matchup because getting in takes a little time. Boulders are + on block and Centrion players will frame trap you if you attempt to do anything right after that. Her projectile in air is easily punishable with teleslam if you see the animation start. You can also punish her earthquake move with telslam, but the timing is tricky. Centrion's earthquake move hits twice, but in between hits you can time a telslam and the second hit will whiff as Noob is in the air already. This is something you're going to need to practice in training mode. I don't have it consistently down yet, but it's something use Noob players need to get down for this matchup.
 

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
The matchups I can give insight on 100% are Johnny, Kano, and Liu.

I think Noob fairs well against Johnny, OK against Kano, and piss poor against Liu. I'm at work now but once I get home I'll write up my experience with each. I have about 150-200 matches played against each in long sets over the course of a few days.

I'm gonna talk with my friend who plays all three at a pretty high level and see what his feelings are before I post my final thoughts.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Are you punishing the projectiles on reaction? To me, the teleport is too slow in order to do so consistently. I have been using Scorpion recently, and the difference between the teleports is enormous. Even while under the influence of various recreational drugs, you can still react to and punish almost all projectiles with Scorpion's teleport. LOL.

Speaking of the mid range game, do you, or anyone else for that matter, struggle against characters who can punish b+1,1+3 on block? Geras punishes with a krushing blow quick sand for 31%. LOL. You lose your best check after d+3 hits which affects your throw game.

And sorry for the lack of a reply. I have no experience fighting Kitana.
I'm punishing them on reaction. I've missed one or two punishes, but I try and keep my eye on Skarlet at a distance. Anytime I see the beginning animation of low blood or blood ball I'll throw out a teleslam. The blood balls are tight, so you have to really keep an eye on her if you want to punish. Scorpion is much better at punishing zoners for sure! Such a great teleport.

In terms of characters that can punish Noob's b1 on block I tend to not use it against them. I don't use that move as often as b3. B3 has great range and has an option select with teleslam. If b3 land then you get a free combo.

No worries on the Kitana matchup insight. I just need to practice against her more. I may lab her to see what's punishable.
 

TheGlow

Retired Noob
In terms of characters that can punish Noob's b1 on block I tend to not use it against them. I don't use that move as often as b3. B3 has great range and has an option select with teleslam. If b3 land then you get a free combo.
So I hear. I cant even hit this on purpose hoping it hits, let alone option select. Or it comes out and is blockable.
For some reason b3 into tele or spirit ball is giving me problems constantly. I can do 112, tele amp, 112, b1, 1+3, tele fairly consistent but hell if I can b3, bf1...
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
So I hear. I cant even hit this on purpose hoping it hits, let alone option select. Or it comes out and is blockable.
For some reason b3 into tele or spirit ball is giving me problems constantly. I can do 112, tele amp, 112, b1, 1+3, tele fairly consistent but hell if I can b3, bf1...
When you input b3 IMMEDIATELY shift your thumb, or wrist (if you're a stick player) to hold down. As soon as it connects with the opponent you hit up. If the b3 hits the opponent you will always get the teleslam. If they block it then nothing comes out. Practice the rhythm of it in training without the training dummy blocking. You'll see it confirm as a 2 hit combo and know that it's a success. If you mess up on the timing it will either not come out or come out after the b3 has recovered which will give the opponent enough time to block. This is something you just mentioned experiencing.
 
This might be premature, but the Noob/Cassie MU might be 7-3 in her favor. I got in about 200 matches offline this weekend while watching summit, and my only recourse was pick my secondary character(Sonya). I'm still trying my damndest to grind out this MU but i'm at a loss.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
This might be premature, but the Noob/Cassie MU might be 7-3 in her favor. I got in about 200 matches offline this weekend while watching summit, and my only recourse was pick my secondary character(Sonya). I'm still trying my damndest to grind out this MU but i'm at a loss.
What makes the match that bad in your opinion?
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
Regarding the mu vs Cassie, from what i can think perhaps her low gunshots dont trade with ghostball? Her hitbox might be lowered once she does it, so Noob has nothing on her from fullscreen, since clone dissapears if Noob is hit. Plus the fact that Cassie can shot multiple gunshots at once so the trade might be in her favor and the recovery of gunshots seems really good.

In general i believe the majority of the mu's with Noob must be played in mid range.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Regarding the mu vs Cassie, from what i can think perhaps her low gunshots dont trade with ghostball? Her hitbox might be lowered once she does it, so Noob has nothing on her from fullscreen, since clone dissapears if Noob is hit. Plus the fact that Cassie can shot multiple gunshots at once so the trade might be in her favor and the recovery of gunshots seems really good.

In general i believe the majority of the mu's with Noob must be played in mid range.
In other words, Cassie is yet another rush down character who zones Noob out so he is forced to fight up close or at mid range where the advantage is even at best because she has phenomenal normal attacks?
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
In other words, Cassie is yet another rush down character who zones Noob out so he is forced to fight up close or at mid range where the advantage is even at best because she has phenomenal normal attacks?
Probably yeah.
 
What makes the match that bad in your opinion?
In other words, Cassie is yet another rush down character who zones Noob out so he is forced to fight up close or at mid range where the advantage is even at best because she has phenomenal normal attacks?
Pretty much. If I get lucky I get a spirit/low shot trade. Even then she's still outside of midrange, so that's a moot point. At midrange she has that f1,1+3 which is an excellent punish move with a good KB tacked on; her b1(I think?) that fast low with range similar to Noob's b3. She also has b243 which is unsafe/last hit duckable but with meter she can make it safe. Not to mention her being able to duck f221. She doesn't have to take a risk in this matchup ever. I had some success with keeping at b3 tip range, as I could land a b3~Spiritball i'd have the advantage to force some kind of mixup, but as we all know that's not Noob's strong point. I could get a KB off of a throw a few times, because he would always break back to keep from having to wake up. He'd gladly take the forward throw unless it was a round winning KB, as it would put him back outside midrange. Not only that, i'd have to be really careful once I got at b2 range, because if I'm caught walking forward, mb low shot into combo. Trying to snipe her low shot with yoloport is very unreliable, because you either are a few frames too slow and you get clipped going up, or you make it past but she's recovered and you have to eat a punish.
 

Gixxerkid66

ChadtheDad412
How are you guys punishing or following up raidens storm cell move? Got locked down by it and couldn’t find a proper option.