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Noble Dragon Wins Injustice 2 @ EVO 2017!

Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
So we went from "Omg gonna be 15 Black Adam's in Top 8 he's beyond broken" to "Aquaman is #1" after one event :rolleyes:

You realize that it's impossible for anyone to take this seriously.
I mean, I wasn't here for a lot of the tier hysteria, but I don't think anyone other than Theo has Aquaman less than top 3.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Okay, you are actually being being personal and you're even quoting stuff that I haven't even said or mentioned. Go look back on the comments I've made since the EVO win and look for anything that comes closes to "tier-whoring" or "overhyped". When you find something we can continue this conversation because I feel you're making things up as you go at this point.

P.S. I detailed that Dragon deserved his win.
Ok about the "tier whoring" thing yes I checked it now and only now I see it wasn't you saying that but it was somebody else, my mistake, sorry for that.

But my point still stands, I'm not being personal for saying you need to see a doctor, because you saying some really nonsensical stuff that really don't reflect the history of NRS games or other games in general. I'm not making stuff about the NRS games and NRS community, about the Capcom games and the Capcom community, or your statements regarding NRS and other games. Saying stuff like "IJ1's stop 10 list mirrors IJ2's while IJ2 is far more balanced at launch then IJ1 was, or that this or any NRS top 8 was boring while other games like MVC2 top 8's were far less diverse (seriously you would lose your mind to see the same 6 characters over and over again, and IJ2's list of viable chars is 9, and we still see more diversity in just 2 months of the game being out,), or that NRS's design choices are always inferior while the opposite is the truth, then you're clearly don't know the facts of history. That's why I said what I have said, that't not me being personal at all.

He stops building meter during trident rush, problem solved. Thanks NRS.



Mk9 was their first attempt at breaking into the competitive FG mold. Yea theres going to be dumbshit in there. Fast forward to 2017 after multiple games and we still get braindead autopilot bullshit. Now im wondering whats going to be their attempt at the next braindead character because it never fails at what they can come up with.
Every game is gonna have a couple of characters of that calibur at launch, regardless of the company. You and others need to understand that already.

I mostly agree. IJ2 probably has the best release day balance of any NRS game. I'll even go as far as to say that a character who excels at chip damage is a very interesting archetype. It's just in the context of everything else, I don't understand what they were going for. Why is his zoning so good? Why does he have plus frames? Why can he convert combos from jump distance? Why does his trait even exist?

I don't think anyone can attribute this just to legacy. Aquaman is debatably better than he was before, while Green Lantern (someone who wasn't even top 5 in IJ1) was gutted like a fish and filled new specials. I think there's something else going on that has nothing to do with balance. Maybe DC wanted Aquaman to be good and laid an executive order on NRS. I don't know. Regardless, I cannot make sense of this character.
I would go and say that both MKX and IJ2 were the best release day of any NRS game thus far. As for any more reasons why Aquaman might be good, considering that WB are the ones who in charge of NRS and WB are connected to DC, it's still very unlikely but not completely impossible. I think it was just that Aqua happen to be that good at launch and that's it, he's gonna get some nerfs at the patch of course.
 

Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
Reeaaaalllyyy...

Well, can you make a case? Can you explain why his tools are reasonable? Or is their some respected member of the community that DOESN'T have aquaman in their top 3?

If there is, help me out here. I'm not this infallible deity of rightness. But a reason would be nice.
 

Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
Lol no.

Black Adam and Catwoman are better. If you disagree please enlighten us on the matchups those two characters lose. Because AM loses to both of them and others like Atrocitus and Ivy.
I don't agree on Black Adam being better... but he MIGHT be. I think a claim like "Black Adam is better than Aquaman" is a reasonable claim. Intelligent people could disagree on that.

"Aquaman is not top 5" is NOT a reasonable claim. That's crazy.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
OK guys I feel like I must say this: Does anyone even care that Sonic Fox' winning streak at EVO has come to an end? All of you guys just got so emotional about Aquaman that you don't talk about the Sonic not winning EVO for the first time in 4 years and the only thing you talk about in relation to Dragon and his win at EVO is just Aquaman himself, after HoneyBee was the one who sent Sonic to the losers bracket with his Flash, and he beat BOTH Sonic's Black Adam AND Red Hood, and now you barely even talk about Adam in regards to the game's balance and it's pretty much all Aquaman.

Nothing against Sonic of course, but we should have talk about HoneyBee beating Sonic, how hyped HB was and how Dragon won the first EVO of IJ2 without playing IJ1 at all and how long of a road he had and how much success he had in the last few months of both MKX and IJ2.

But it's all Aquaman, because all you care about is just what you see on the screen. I'm sorry, but that's pathetic.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This thread right here is why our finals are on saturday now )=
Another common fallacy. Read Eventhubs and how they talk about both SFV and Ultimate Marvel (and have for months).

EVO Sunday is insider politics, nothing more, nothing less. Any claims about forums, game balance, or otherwise are just false cover for decision-makers pushing their internal agendas.

Don't buy into it and don't think this is different from any other community.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
I was answering "why do people hate him for no reason'". Whether or not he's served his time wasn't the reason for my post. You can't cheat in a tournament and expect everyone to forgive you.
That's fine and I get your point. It was just your additional comment about him being banned in tournaments I took differently.
 

Gamer68

Fujin!
In this thread:
  • Aquaman is boring!
  • STFU, it's fine!
  • Aquaman is boring!
  • STFU, it's fine!
  • Dragon sucks!
  • STFU, he's fine!
  • Trident Rush is a hype killer!
  • STFU, it's fine!
  • Did I mention Aquaman is boring?
  • DID I MENTION TO STFU -- IT'S FINE!?
TYM, pls.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I fail to understand why certain people are upset about high level players using the better characters in the game in order to have an opportunity to win thousands of dollars. You may be entitled to watching the event free of charge from the convenience of your couch, but you are not entitled to a high level player's character selection and your subjective opinion of an interesting viewing experience. The fact is that Injustice 2 is the most balanced fighting game that NRS has ever released without patching. The community, along with me and my predictions, expected Black Adam players to dominate the top 8, yet all of them lost, including the best player in the scene.

If you intend to make a fair and coherent argument, I think you can criticize the game's top tier characters and their accessibility level. Not only are the current top tier characters the best characters in the game, they are also the easiest to use in terms of execution. So if am a dedicated Grodd player, why should I spend a myriad of hours practicing my combos and cancels when I can learn Aquaman for less effort and more reward? Most fighting games have presently become more accessible, but the least execution-heavy characters in the game do not necessarily have to be the best. I think this argument is constructive and fair and does not discredit high level players and their accomplishments.
 

Shaka

Tier Whore.
I fail to understand why certain people are upset about high level players using the better characters in the game in order to have an opportunity to win thousands of dollars. You may be entitled to watching the event free of charge from the convenience of your couch, but you are not entitled to a high level player's character selection and your subjective opinion of an interesting viewing experience. The fact is that Injustice 2 is the most balanced fighting game that NRS has ever released without patching. The community, along with me and my predictions, expected Black Adam players to dominate the top 8, yet all of them lost, including the best player in the scene.

If you intend to make a fair and coherent argument, I think you can criticize the game's top tier characters and their accessibility level. Not only are the current top tier characters the best characters in the game, they are also the easiest to use in terms of execution. So if am a dedicated Grodd player, why should I spend a myriad of hours practicing my combos and cancels when I can learn Aquaman for less effort and more reward? Most fighting games have presently become more accessible, but the least execution-heavy characters in the game do not necessarily have to be the best. I think this argument is constructive and fair and does not discredit high level players and their accomplishments.
QFTT.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I'm actually not crapping on him in any way, however, I am critical of his decision to drop Ivy for Aquaman but I respect his choices and realizes it what got him the money. But, as far as respect is concerned, he definitely lost mine for sure.
Dude shut the fuck up.

You've called his win fraudulent, said he deserved to be booed by the community as the same characters and players have won everything (which is totally untrue.....different winning character and player of every major so far. If anything the most redundantly successful player has been semiij on WOTG), said you don't respect him.....

....yet you're not crapping on him?

You sound like the biggest scrub in the world. Like dragon has some moral obligation to some clown on tym to play the character you have decided he should play because it's more honorable. Gimme a break.

I just can't with this bullshit anymore.

Dragon outplayed everyone, honeybee included. Boo hoo!!! Aquaman is a shitty matchup for flash! Waaaah!! Honeybee has chosen to make his way exclusively playing flash, and that's cool, but it basically guarantees he will bump into amazing players maining a character who gives flash a hard time. Plenty of other players have the same issue, but the majority of them pick a secondary and tertiary even to cover especially bad MUs. That's fighting games.

We all know aquaman will be nerfed along with the undisputed strongest characters in the game. It's a moot point by now. But this narrative is so comical: that dragon is a bum that picks potato characters and just scrubs out victories.

How come people suck Theo's dick when he spends 3 games walking backward with aquaman and fishing for whiff punishes and trident rushing his heart out? I mean...damn.

The community narrative is simply "lul dragon sucks and is carried by his characters" and whatever I guess, but the obvious flaw with that is that all characters are available to all players, and despite the fact that we saw a ton of top tier character representation at the end of the day the best players were there in the end and that's that.

Honeybee was a hero, congrats, and a big congrats to dragon
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Dude shut the fuck up.

You've called his win fraudulent, said he deserved to be booed by the community as the same characters and players have won everything (which is totally untrue.....different winning character and player of every major so far. If anything the most redundantly successful player has been semiij on WOTG), said you don't respect him.....

....yet you're not crapping on him?

You sound like the biggest scrub in the world. Like dragon has some moral obligation to some clown on tym to play the character you have decided he should play because it's more honorable. Gimme a break.

I just can't with this bullshit anymore.

Dragon outplayed everyone, honeybee included. Boo hoo!!! Aquaman is a shitty matchup for flash! Waaaah!! Honeybee has chosen to make his way exclusively playing flash, and that's cool, but it basically guarantees he will bump into amazing players maining a character who gives flash a hard time. Plenty of other players have the same issue, but the majority of them pick a secondary and tertiary even to cover especially bad MUs. That's fighting games.

We all know aquaman will be nerfed along with the undisputed strongest characters in the game. It's a moot point by now. But this narrative is so comical: that dragon is a bum that picks potato characters and just scrubs out victories.

How come people suck Theo's dick when he spends 3 games walking backward with aquaman and fishing for whiff punishes and trident rushing his heart out? I mean...damn.

The community narrative is simply "lul dragon sucks and is carried by his characters" and whatever I guess, but the obvious flaw with that is that all characters are available to all players, and despite the fact that we saw a ton of top tier character representation at the end of the day the best players were there in the end and that's that.

Honeybee was a hero, congrats, and a big congrats to dragon
This.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
He's a scrub because he called Aquaman a brain dead character? Black Adam and Aquaman are the two strongest characters in the game and they are both mechanically easier than most of the cast. When there is an Aquaman or a Black Adam in a majority of the competitive games, they need to be toned down.

And congrats to Dragon for winning Evo, but pressing D1 Trident Rush to win isn't gonna get you respect from people.
The fact that you attribute dragon's success to pressing d1 trident rush pretty much shows your post to be worthless. Again, if all it requires is d1 trident rush, why weren't there 5 aquamen in top 8, and why didn't honeybee beat dragon in the mirror?

Of course trident rush is op and the chip damage is absurd. Nerf that shit please. But the same exact tools dragon used were available to everyone else. And dragon did a hell of a lot more than d1 trident rush to take it down.

So maybe dragon isn't gonna get respect from people like you as you said, but I know for sure you aren't earning respect talking about how cheap the play style of someone who could random select and 10-0 you is.

Go back and watch dragons play all tournament and tell me his spacing, timing, reads, punishes, etc weren't great.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
If half of you guys watched the rest of Evo and other fighting game tournament's you would know most of your silly stupid short sided arguments don't mean nothing.
 
I would have booed too. Not dragon himself. I'd have done it to anyone after watching them MB trident rush four times in a row with a full meter.

It is just awful to watch. I'm a spectator. I'm never going to win EVO. I want to be entertained and Aquaman is far from it. Watching high level play is generally always entertaining...except Aquaman (and probably Black Adam). We saw this same shit at the last major and it was boo worthy then.

b123 D1 trident rush is the ultimate hype killer. Not anyone's fault for playing a good character, but that doesn't mean we need to like it. If you want people to be hype and root for you, do what Honeybee did. Run Flash through some of the top players in hype as fuck matches that don't involve like 50% chip damage.

None of it really matters. If I were playing tournaments like EVO, I'd be playing whatever character would give me the best chance of winning. I'd not give two shits what anyone here thinks and Id proudly tier whore. I wouldn't expect anyone to be hype for me though.