Ninjakilla's Tier List

[PetulantWaste]

He addresses a lot of things the general community was annoyed about with Sonic's tier list from Liu Kang's whiffing issues to Sonic overhyping some pretty mediocre gimmicks with Skarlet.


On a personal note, he shows that Kotal is easily zoned and can be flawless blocked on reaction much of the time on his best tools. Calls him A+ tier. Which is exactly how I felt.

Listen and Discuss.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Anyone care to chart it out, for those who may be covertly checking in on TYM from work?

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Screenshot of his list for reference:

Def gonna give this a proper listen. I'm interested in his takes and I've got a whole workday to kill lol

EDIT: Also, can we just appreciate how crazy it is that B-tier and below has just straight up stopped existing in these recent tier lists? Makes me wanna see some MU numbers to see if things really are that balanced.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Anyone care to chart it out, for those who may be covertly checking in on TYM from work?

I gotchu

 

[Cobainevermind87]

I gotchu

cheers!

 

[John Grizzly]

I find it really strange when guest characters are made so strong that they're considered the best characters in the game by some top players.

Joker is 1 on NinjaKilla's list and 2 on SonicFox's.

This is an MK game....and the Joker is as good as it gets. An MK game...and an MK character might not even be the best character. Meanwhile, Joker is basura in DC games.

This isn't just an MK thing. For a long period of time Akuma and Geese were considered the best of the best in Tekken 7. After the recent nerfs, Akuma dropped a few spots, but Geese is considered to be the best by some currently. Legacy characters were added as DLC (Anna, Lei for example) and are fairly weak.

I'm sure it's all done for a reason, but it's just strange.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

I find it really strange when guest characters are made so strong that they're considered the best characters in the game by some top players.

Joker is 1 on NinjaKilla's list and 2 on SonicFox's.

This is an MK game....and the Joker is as good as it gets. It's an MK game, and an MK character might not even be the best character. Meanwhile, Joker is basura in DC games.

This isn't just an MK thing. For a long period of time Akuma and Geese were considered the best of the best in Tekken 7. After the recent nerfs, Akuma dropped a few spots, but Geese is considered to be the best by some currently. Legacy characters were added as DLC (Anna, Lei for example) and are fairly weak.

I'm sure it's all done for a reason, but it's just strange.

Guests are probably so strong because people aren't as likely to spend money on a character that took up a slot that could've gone to an in-universe character AND is considered bad as well. Meanwhile, legacy characters can afford to be weaker because you'll have diehard fans who'll purchase them now matter how bad the character actually is.

I can't speak for MK9, but Alien and Predator were both busted when they dropped in MKX, meanwhile Bo'Rai Cho was just... lol

 

[Evil Canadian]

EDIT: Also, can we just appreciate how crazy it is that B-tier and below has just straight up stopped existing in these recent tier lists? Makes me wanna see some MU numbers to see if things really are that balanced.

Mostly people just piggy backing off sonic

Tiers in MK11 are more condensed than other comparable modern fighters but You take a character like Shao and compare him to Liu or Johnny and no, hes not in "A" tier compared to their "S".

Somewhere along the line people forgot its ok to show B and C tiers. Not everything has to be + or -. To me as the old guy whose seen tier lists since the 90s a + or a - indicates only slightly better or worse, enough to justify its own tier but not a huge amount so. I am pretty sure someone like Baraka is more than just slightly better than raiden.

 

[deathstroke187]

i must be special cause i can react to jax -11 staggers.

 

[NHDR]

Not gonna be able to watch this until tonight after work, but what is he saying on Erron? Curious about his placement, Sub-Zero as well, also Skarlet.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Mostly people just piggy backing off sonic

Tiers in MK11 are more condensed than other comparable modern fighters but You take a character like Shao and compare him to Liu or Johnny and no, hes not in "A" tier compared to their "S".

Somewhere along the line people forgot its ok to show B and C tiers. Not everything has to be + or -. To me as the old guy whose seen tier lists since the 90s a + or a - indicates only slightly better or worse, enough to justify its own tier but not a huge amount so. I am pretty sure someone like Baraka is more than just slightly better than raiden.

You're right, and taking a second look at the tiers themselves, I didn't even register that over half the cast fit into some level of S tier. I always thought that S meant that the character had legit game breaking stuff that needed to be fixed for the health of the game. In this case, it just seems like they're all just really good at what they were designed to be good at. There's just a huge jump in power once you break into the Top 5.

It feels like placebo to the point where the actual letter has no meaning. It's why I'd like to see actual numbers. Tell a more casual player that their favourite character is A- when they're actually closer to C and they'll probably believe you and feel good, but it won't change the number of winning MUs.

 

[PetulantWaste]

Not gonna be able to watch this until tonight after work, but what is he saying on Erron? Curious about his placement, Sub-Zero as well, also Skarlet.

He said Sonic placed Erron too high. TNT is trash. No Scud Shot in BI means that he's easily zoned out. He said that he's more reactable than Sonic said he was, Barking Irons is mostly gimmicks. A+ tier. Not S.

Sub Zero Top 10 not Bottom 5 even with a reactable F2.

Skarlet is A tier. All her corner staggers are gimmicks if you lab your reactions.

 

[supernumian]

Seeing Ninjakilla and Sonic put The Idiot at #1 hurt me.
If he doesn't get appropriate nerfs and everyone pick him, I'll drop the game.

 

[kantboy-2]

Even tier lists are getting "participation trophies" in the letter placement? So all characters are special.

For the love of Grodd.

Akuma and Geese break the rules of Tekken with their toolsets. Why learn 90 moves when 30 are just as good?


Aku

 

[deathstroke187]

Tekken master is more realistic

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262759968056373250

 

[Hellbringer]

i must be special cause i can react to jax -11 staggers.

I dont really believe you can react to jax his staggers, you said yourself that you cant react to it online and your not really a tournament player.
And just because your only using f33 doesnt mean the character is bad, he has more tools then just mashing f33. And his f33 is -4 not sure where u get this -11 from.
Tym always want buff for the characters they main and nerf all the rest.

 

[M2Dave]

Sonic Fox's tier lists receive most of the community's attention, but I am finding that Ninja Killer provides more comprehensive explanations that exclude "This character is OD / broke / stupid" every second or third sentence. I am about halfway through the video and I am learning a lot. Ninja Killer is also the best flawless blocker in the community so listening to what he has to say about reactable and unreactable offensive strategies is interesting.

Tekken master is more realistic

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262759968056373250

I also still believe that Highborn Kitana is top ten. I feel people are overrating Shang Tsung, though. From what we have observed in recent online tournaments, he is mostly used as a counter-pick character. The top tier characters, namely Cage, Cetrion, Geras, Jacqui, and Liu Kang, can punish a flawless blocked ground eruption very consistently, but I have only seen Ninja Killer flawless block and punish it regularly.

 

[Eji1700]

Screenshot of his list for reference:

Def gonna give this a proper listen. I'm interested in his takes and I've got a whole workday to kill lol

EDIT: Also, can we just appreciate how crazy it is that B-tier and below has just straight up stopped existing in these recent tier lists? Makes me wanna see some MU numbers to see if things really are that balanced.

Can we appreciate it though? This feels like just arbitrary naming at this point.

To me S tier is "shit is a problem" levels of good (mk9 kabal, where you could pick other people but you were just matched so well against the cast), and S+ is "if you pick anyone else with money on the line, you're wrong" (ST akuma is the classic example, but i dunno Noob from trilogy maybe).

So while this might be what i expect an mvc2 tier list to look like, i don't think it's real to say there's no one in B when they've just creeped the whole concept.

Realistically i'd say this is a lot more A+ to B-, and even then i think that's being generous on the some of the gulfs. Yeah you can play the bottom 3, but it sure as shit doesn't feel like this is A or even B tier material.

 

[RoboCop]

Wow, I did not expect to watch that entire video in one go, but his explanations and demonstrations were just so damn educational. I probably learned more from that one video than just about any other source.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Can we appreciate it though? This feels like just arbitrary naming at this point.

To me S tier is "shit is a problem" levels of good (mk9 kabal, where you could pick other people but you were just matched so well against the cast), and S+ is "if you pick anyone else with money on the line, you're wrong" (ST akuma is the classic example, but i dunno Noob from trilogy maybe).

So while this might be what i expect an mvc2 tier list to look like, i don't think it's real to say there's no one in B when they've just creeped the whole concept.

Realistically i'd say this is a lot more A+ to B-, and even then i think that's being generous on the some of the gulfs. Yeah you can play the bottom 3, but it sure as shit doesn't feel like this is A or even B tier material.

Yeah, 'appreciate' was probably the wrong word to use. I just found it interesting how B, C, and D all vanished after a handful of tier lists for this game. In hindsight, i don't necessarily agree with it, I just found it funny. I'd be much more interested in actual matchup numbers at this point to get a better idea of where characters actually stand.

 

[Jbog]

There's a huge difference between these lists and online list. The crap pokes and no jails online and unsafe moves being safe are this games doom

 

[deathstroke187]

I dont really believe you can react to jax his staggers, you said yourself that you cant react to it online and your not really a tournament player.
And just because your only using f33 doesnt mean the character is bad, he has more tools then just mashing f33. And his f33 is -4 not sure where u get this -11 from.
Tym always want buff for the characters they main and nerf all the rest.

believe what you want. just like people believe they cant react to throws.

 

[RoboCop]

 

[BurdaA]

Sorry as much as NK is top tier at this game, his knowledge of Frost actually made me laugh. Even after trying to learn-as-he-goes. I disagreed with some of what SF said too, but not to this degree... but what do I know, eh?

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Definitely appreciate his explanations more than SF. Like when Sonic said "you can OS Baraka's auto shimmy so it's not a real auto shimmy" then demonstrated it without explaining what exactly they're OSing, how they're doing it, and how it's different from other auto shimmies. But then Ninja showed you could OS Nightwolf's and explained how he was doing it