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Strategy New Way To End Smoke Combos (Invis + T-punch Whiff)

LaR

Noob
Started doing this recently and haven't seen any one do this yet so not sure if it's new. You can finnish certain combos with f4 inviability and then wiff a smokeport. You will still have time to block a wake up attack after this.


 
I think this is great, it sounds like smoke now arrives at the exact time it is need to switch someones buttons before they even wake up!

Because before all you have to do is wait for the tele and and then input your wake up!

I like it dude! But that's less advantage on knockdown. Gud shit tho if its 100% true(What you said about it that is)
 

Dann

Noob
The more he is explored the better he is getting. He has a lot of tricks. The other day my friend was whiffing the enhanced teleport on me. The third hit wouldn't happen and he would fall really fast to the ground. This character is awsome
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
You sacrifice the potential for meaties with this. unless your opponent is conditioned to block on wakeup... then you can get a free 214 blockstring. You can block their wakeups and punish, too. This is interesting, I'll play around with this for a while and see if I can't confirm its being useful.

I tested vs. Kung Lao. I blocked wakeup spin 100% of the time. This seems safe, at least, in the sense that you cannot be combo punished but you CAN be immediately put into pressure. This is all about conditioning; you can forsee the pressure and EX shake it to punish their attempt to punish you. Smokeception. However if they go deeper they'll poke you out and you're boned.

New BnB's that include this for those that want:

jip > 3d12 > njp > 32 > 4 xx bomb > f4 xx invis > (telepunch) = 41%. 37 without the njp as it makes the combo quite a bit harder.
jip > 3d12 > njp > b23 xx bomb > f4 xx invis > (telepunch) = 37% (sorry KT I win this time on damage LOL)
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
There are certain characters that have no answer for a cross up off of this as well. Certain stages make regular invis better than others as well. Freaking... bottom of the pit... impossible to see him.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
in my opinion i feel that the advantage over wakeups isnt worth giving up for this invisibility set up, you teleport and are forced to block because you dont have the advantage for meaties, if you block an attack it negated the invisibility leaving you in the opponents face, and no longer invisible. I like the idea behind it but theres beter setups for invisibility, 214 being my favourite, you can also get it from a forward throw i think, but this is the same sort of idea as this one where you give up the meaty.

for the records i think you can squeeze a tiny bit more damage out if you get good with the timings, from my normal bnb that i get most damage and success with i would use :

Jip, 3d12, njp, 3d12 , 4xxsb, jump punch, f4xxInvis.
You get shit ton of corner carry with this, which i feel is why its his best combo. you can judge how far from the corner you are, and if you are closer to the corner than your opponent, add a telepunch whiff to the NJP to put them in the corner anyway.

Edit: The simple plainest way to get midscreen combos every time is to do a dash block before you 3d12 juggle them, so you are very close to them and the string wont whiff and drop them because your dash was too small.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
in my opinion i feel that the advantage over wakeups isnt worth giving up for this invisibility set up, you teleport and are forced to block because you dont have the advantage for meaties, if you block an attack it negated the invisibility leaving you in the opponents face, and no longer invisible. I like the idea behind it but theres beter setups for invisibility, 214 being my favourite, you can also get it from a forward throw i think, but this is the same sort of idea as this one where you give up the meaty.

for the records i think you can squeeze a tiny bit more damage out if you get good with the timings, from my normal bnb that i get most damage and success with i would use :

Jip, 3d12, njp, 3d12 , 4xxsb, jump punch, f4xxInvis.
You get shit ton of corner carry with this, which i feel is why its his best combo. you can judge how far from the corner you are, and if you are closer to the corner than your opponent, add a telepunch whiff to the NJP to put them in the corner anyway.

Edit: The simple plainest way to get midscreen combos every time is to do a dash block before you 3d12 juggle them, so you are very close to them and the string wont whiff and drop them because your dash was too small.
While I agree with just about everything you say, I'd like to present you with this:

Who in their right mind is gonna try a blockstring after this? If anything they'll be techrolling or trying a (punishable) wakeup. Ain't nobody gonna throw a string out there in anticipation of smoke telepunching in, and if somebody does just throw a fullscreen smoke bomb instead of telepunching in to punish them for trying to punish you. Again, smokeception. I like this as another mindfuck in smoke's bag of tricks, just don't rely on it like most things.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
While I agree with just about everything you say, I'd like to present you with this:

Who in their right mind is gonna try a blockstring after this? If anything they'll be techrolling or trying a (punishable) wakeup. Ain't nobody gonna throw a string out there in anticipation of smoke telepunching in, and if somebody does just throw a fullscreen smoke bomb instead of telepunching in to punish them for trying to punish you. Again, smokeception. I like this as another mindfuck in smoke's bag of tricks, just don't rely on it like most things.
A fair point i guess, but they arent going to blockstring in your face, if they dont do a wake up you just put yourself in neutral frames next to them i guess, and you cant get a meaty out so you are very open to wake up attacks. In general you wouldnt turn invisible then run straight up next to them with no advantage, because chances are you get beaten on.
The main thing to consider is the fact that one of the pure strengths about whiffing the telepunch is that they have to run the risk of your meaty attacks catching them if they dont perform a wake up, however if smoke reads the wakeup he gets the punish, so i dont know what this really achieves in terms of giving up your advantage and putting yourself in their face where you dont have time to do anything except block before they get up...

Maybe i understood it wrong, but from what i can tell the invisibility after f4 is a good setup for being at range and invisible, causing them problems, if anything the telepunch removes the value of that i guess...
 

hardwire

Noob
wait a min

did you just hit a blocked tp punch with out balling up? please show it again with out invis

edit: ok never mind just watched it full screen and you finnish just b4 they get up

very nice this is very close to what i do
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
smokey it's all just mindgames and tricks. Whiffing telepunch over a knockdown isnt really safe either since you can get blown up by wakeups if you try a meaty: the meaty itself is a risk. What this does is it puts you right next to them and causes a panic reaction, where you get a guessing game to try and punish their panic reactino (usually letting off block so 21 xx bomb could be good)

I'll put this into practice this weekend and give my findings. I think this could be pretty great if for nothing else than throwing a different wakeup scenario at your opponent than they're used to.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Started doing this recently and haven't seen any one do this yet so not sure if it's new. You can finnish certain combos with f4 inviability and then wiff a smokeport. You will still have time to block a wake up attack after this.

Can we make sure that humans can't block this? The CPU has a nasty habit of not blocking properly. I say this because out of forward throw, if they tech roll and hold block the t-punch gets blocked. In the video it looks like it might be the same case. If not, it's a pretty great way to end a combo.

jip > 3d12 > njp > b23 xx bomb > f4 xx invis > (telepunch) = 37% (sorry KT I win this time on damage LOL)
you can get another 3d12 in there ;)
 

LaR

Noob
Can we make sure that humans can't block this? The CPU has a nasty habit of not blocking properly. I say this because out of forward throw, if they tech roll and hold block the t-punch gets blocked. In the video it looks like it might be the same case. If not, it's a pretty great way to end a combo.




Just tested it against a human and they can't block the wiffed smokeport.
Just tested it against a human and they can't block the wiffed smokeport.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
So I said I'd give my take on it so here it is: This is good if your execution is good. If your execution is poor/slow, then your telepunch will come a few frames too late and you will hit a blocking opponent for a full combo punish. Just... be careful throwing this out. I've otherwise had no problems and have not been punished for it unjustly. Use it sparingly and don't get cocky.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
So I said I'd give my take on it so here it is: This is good if your execution is good. If your execution is poor/slow, then your telepunch will come a few frames too late and you will hit a blocking opponent for a full combo punish. Just... be careful throwing this out. I've otherwise had no problems and have not been punished for it unjustly. Use it sparingly and don't get cocky.
During the invisibility, input db44444444444444. The teleport will come out right on time. Similar for switching sides after a smokebomb where njp will splat (b2,3xxSB). Mash the teleport.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Double post but this is another cool combo ender:

(i have seen KT and the likes use this on stream, so i cant claim it, but its by no means new or groundbreaking)

Finish midscreen with "21 xx Smoke drift (towards)" and you will get a cross up.

In the corner this is same but 214 will usually be applicable, but in the corner you will not cross them up, just the animation will, you still remain on the inside of the stage, with your opponents back to the wall.

Example combo i use for this:

JIP, 3d12, NJP(xxTelepunch if back to the corner), 32, 4xSB(Telepunch whiff if you want to swap sides again), 3d12, 21xxSmoke towards.

Now thats a long winded combo D:

Happy smoking!
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Double post but this is another cool combo ender:

(i have seen KT and the likes use this on stream, so i cant claim it, but its by no means new or groundbreaking)

Finish midscreen with "21 xx Smoke drift (towards)" and you will get a cross up.

In the corner this is same but 214 will usually be applicable, but in the corner you will not cross them up, just the animation will, you still remain on the inside of the stage, with your opponents back to the wall.

Example combo i use for this:

JIP, 3d12, NJP(xxTelepunch if back to the corner), 32, 4xSB(Telepunch whiff if you want to swap sides again), 3d12, 21xxSmoke towards.

Now thats a long winded combo D:

Happy smoking!
Hmm, I will have to mix the 21 drift in sometime. Always nice to have more options. Thx
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
What are the hardest stages to see normal invisible smoke on? The ones where you can kinda see him but you don't' really know what he's doing. So that one time you do end your combo with Invisibility, whiff teleport... your an cross someone up and finish them off. Every now and then... that shit works and it makes me feel so good.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
What are the hardest stages to see normal invisible smoke on? The ones where you can kinda see him but you don't' really know what he's doing. So that one time you do end your combo with Invisibility, whiff teleport... your an cross someone up and finish them off. Every now and then... that shit works and it makes me feel so good.
Darker stages in my opinion, although with any stage you still blend pretty well, nobody should be able to make out your strings and position, only thing i wish was that the smoke drift animation wasnt so vivid when invisible -.-

The streets good too, if you time your invisibility to when you hear a car coming down the street you can really confuse your enemies!
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
KT Smith I call upon you... the smoke of my heart.... to pull something like this off at VSM. I'm talking hype as hell, you opponent thinks you are doing the reset, then BAM, invis... cross over... dead!!!! AM I RITE SMOKE FORUM??!! :)