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New Video Shows in Depth Look at Cassie's Strings and Frame Data

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
TrueUnderDawgGaming has been coming out with some videos recently. His newest installment shows off Cassie's strings while he gives his detailed impression of her playstyle in MK11.

He gives some insight on the character that hasn't been touched on yet. So, I suggest if you want a heads up on what you'll be getting yourselves into, I'd give it a look!



And of course, It wouldn't be a JTCircus thread without the mandatory frame data spreadsheet:

 
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LawAbidingCitizen

Sunlight and Blood give me strength.
Cassie needs a damn sub-forum already lol.
IKR... Vslayer was starting a Frame Data thread for Cassie so this is legit awesome. Now we just need Subs, Scorps, Kanos, Sonya's, Scarlet's, Raidens for comparison.

Excellent video!

On another note, come on lazy admins! Stop eating burgers all day and give Cassie her sub-forum!
Except him asking for literally everything to be easier like crushing blows which are the staple for combos and high damage?

But yes enlightening video, love the in depth Cassie rundown and ofc FD.
 
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Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
IKR... Vslayer was starting a Frame Data thread for Cassie so this is legit awesome. Now we just need Subs, Scorps, Kanos, Sonya's, Scarlet's, Raidens for comparison.
Ask and you shall receive!!!

Scorpion, Sub, Skarlet, Raiden, Geras, Baraka, and Sonya frame data:
https://testyourmight.com/threads/all-current-frame-data-for-the-characters-in-the-demo-build.68028/

Johnny Cage Frame Data:

All is from the demo build and submit to change, you know the drill.
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

Sunlight and Blood give me strength.

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
ey the spoiler in op, is that data sheet Cassie cuz it has Overhead strings and as far as I know she only has lows with Bunny Hop for her OH.
Is this Cassie or who?
Yes, it's definitely Cassie's lol.
You could even double check in the video I linked.

She doesn't have any Overhead string-starters or normals but she does have some strings that end in overheads. It's not a true mixup though because you would know the overhead is coming.

21D2 has an overhead on the third hit.

F412 has an overhead on the second hit.

Cassie is relatively safe after any hit of these two strings though, so I bet if she stops short to fake-out or gun-cancel to really put mental pressure on her opponent, they'd be so focused on blocking the overheads that you might sneak in a low string, grab, or bait out a counterattack by walking backwards.

If her low gunshot is a true low you might be able to really fuck with someone up close too (sounds punishable though).
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

Sunlight and Blood give me strength.
Yes, it's definitely Cassie's lol.
You could even double check in the video I linked.

She doesn't have any Overhead string-starters or normals but she does have some strings that end in overheads. It's not a true mixup though because you would know the overhead is coming.

21D2 has an overhead on the third hit.

F412 has an overhead on the second hit.

Cassie is relatively safe after any hit of these two strings though, so I bet if she stop short to fake-out or gun-cancel to really put mental pressure on her opponent. They'd be so focused on blocking the overheads that you might sneak in a low string, grab, or bait out a counterattack by walking backwards.

If her low gunshot is a true low you might be able to really fuck with someone up close too (sounds punishable though).
You are fucking awesome.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Interesting so the tier of the fastest normal in the game its on the 7f treshold while not universaly so far it seems a good portion of the cast has it. Withing each own they have different proprieties on their archtypes, i just wanna see this theory of Cassie's (jack of all trades master of none) having all tools but not being the greatest on any area true, so lets compare a little bit.


Cassie its: +2 on block, +13 on hit, 12f recovery, 3 active frames, 14f cancel adv
Skarlet's its: -1 on block, +5 on hit, 16f recovery, 2 active frames, 17f cancel adv
Baraka's its: -3 on block, +16 on hit, 18f recovery, 2 active frames, 18f cancel adv
Geras's its: +1 on block, +20 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Johnny cage: +3 on block, +9 on hit, 12f recovery, 2 active frames, 14f cancel adv
Raiden's jab: -4 on block, +15 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Scorpion's its: -2 on block, +9 on hit, 17f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Sonya's jab its: -5 on block, +1 on hit, 20f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv


block advantage tier (The better the more pressure a certain character has)
Best: Johnny Cage with +3 on block
Cassie with +2 on block
Geras with: +1 on block
Skarlet with: -1 on block
Scorpion with: - 2 on block
Baraka with: - 3 on block
Raiden with -4 on block
Worst: Sonya with -5 on block

Hit advantage tier (The longer the better frame traps can be applied)
Best: Geras with +20 on hit
Baraka with: +16 on hit
Raiden with + 15 on hit
Cassie with +13 on hit
Scorpion/Cahe tie wit +9 on hit
Skarlet with +5 on hit
Worst: Sonya with +1 on hit

Recovery frame tier (The less the better a character has a slim chance of getting whiff punished)
Best: Johnny and Cassie with 12f recovery
Uncommon: Skarlet with 16f recovery
Less common: Scorpion with 17f recovery
baraka with : 18f recovery
Common: Geras's raiden with 19f recovery
Worst: Sonya with 20f recovery

Active frames tier ( the more, the harder a move is to whiff punish, plus on hit advantage can be increased and block advantage can be increased if plus, block disadvantage can be reduced if minus.

Best: Cassie with 3 active frames
Common: All others with 2 active frames.

Quick examples on active frames.
Cassie's jab its +2 on block, and she has 3 active frames, if she hits her jab on active frame 2, her jab will be +3 on block, if hit on the latest active frame her jab becomes +4 on block, literally better than Johnny's jab hitting standard people on block which is +3 by default
Skarlet's Jab its -1, if hit on the latest active frame it becomes 0 on block.


I honestly will going to wait and see how this will play out, definitely not a final thing, just hope its not a bad thing, considering a some characters gain way more plus frames from a single jab on hit than others, which are usually faster than the rest of the cast and they are fast by nature, like the cage family, i feel like at very least jabs should all have at least +5 on hit advantage but no much than this considering some can be hit on latest active frames to make it more plus, and on block they shouldn't be that big either for that same reason.

Doesn't look that fair, having a jab that its plus, recovers faster on whiff and has more active frames than the rest, just a though.
Really hoping every single character has at least a very glaring weakness.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Sunlight and Blood give me strength.
So this means a character with a 7f normal can only punish a move that its at least -10 on block to its minimum? -9 or even -8/-7 are safe?
So there is 3 frame window allowing us to punish within 3 frames instead of 1 like MKX? If so this is awesome.

Active frames tier ( the more, the harder a move is to whiff punish, plus on hit advantage can be increased and block advantage can be increased if plus, block disadvantage can be reduced if minus.

Best: Cassie with 3 active frames
Common: All others with 2 active frames.

Quick examples on active frames.
Cassie's jab its +2 on block, and she has 3 active frames, if she hits her jab on active frame 2, her jab will be +3 on block, if hit on the latest active frame her jab becomes +4 on block, literally better than Johnny's jab hitting standard people on block which is +3 by default
Skarlet's Jab its -1, if hit on the latest active frame it becomes 0 on block.
So the advantage changes depending on when you connect with opponent on block/hit?

Hit advantage tier (The longer the better frame traps can be applied)
Best: Geras with +20 on hit
Baraka with: +16 on hit
Raiden with + 15 on hit
Cassie with +13 on hit
Scorpion/Cahe tie wit +9 on hit
Skarlet with +5 on hit
Worst: Sonya with +1 on hit
Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that frametraps where usually achieved by cancels making normals have more advantage and less recovery? I could be wrong that's why I'm asking...

Interesting so the tier of the fastest normal in the game its on the 7f treshold while not universaly so far it seems a good portion of the cast has it. Withing each own they have different proprieties on their archtypes, i just wanna see this theory of Cassie's (jack of all trades master of none) having all tools but not being the greatest on any area true, so lets compare a little bit.


Cassie its: +2 on block, +13 on hit, 12f recovery, 3 active frames, 14f cancel adv
Skarlet's its: -1 on block, +5 on hit, 16f recovery, 2 active frames, 17f cancel adv
Baraka's its: -3 on block, +16 on hit, 18f recovery, 2 active frames, 18f cancel adv
Geras's its: +1 on block, +20 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Johnny cage: +3 on block, +9 on hit, 12f recovery, 2 active frames, 14f cancel adv
Raiden's jab: -4 on block, +15 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Scorpion's its: -2 on block, +9 on hit, 17f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Sonya's jab its: -5 on block, +1 on hit, 20f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
What is the startup of all these moves?
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
So there is 3 frame window allowing us to punish within 3 frames instead of 1 like MKX? If so this is awesome.

Dizzy never explained, so i won't know for sure until game its released, howver some members speculated that the window within a block stun of all unsafe moves are around 3 frames to input anything, being -7 or not, so we shall see, for an example Claudio's hop kick in tekken was nerfed by adding 2 frames of recovery so they adjusted that by adding two more frames of blockstun on the opponent if blocked, so ppl have more visual time to react to it if they blocked but the move is still -13 on block, this may be the same case.
So the advantage changes depending on when you connect with opponent on block/hit?
Active frames its the part or the ammount of time a move has to connect on hit or block, frame data will always give you advantage on these moves if they connect on the first active frame the rest of the animation where it was supposed to be active adds up to the recovery, so if a move has 2 active frames and its -1 and a recovery of 16f means the move produces a blockstun equally to 15 frames before your character returns to neutral, if you connect one frame late it doesn't add up and instead of having like a 16f recovery now you get a 15 which its the exact amount a blockstun of the same move produces, so as a result the advantage goes from -1 to 0 on block, and if a move its +15 on hit and you actually hit them it can increase depending on how much hit stun produces and how much recovery you get after the active frame disappear.

Good ways to produce this advantage is by hitting opponents on meaty or at certain ranges if move has traveling proprieties but you going have to check how many active frames a move has and how long it takes to recovery, but usually these exists in fighting game, Ibuki slide its one example, if done up close its unsafe but if you slide from certain ranges it hits way late and the recovery alters and it becomes safe.

Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that frametraps where usually achieved by cancels making normals have more advantage and less recovery? I could be wrong that's why I'm asking...
These aren't exactly frame traps, this are hitstuns of these normals, if they hit you with it, they are this plus if hits.

What is the startup of all these moves?
7f startup, for a string that starts a combo its actually pretty fast, if you can punish -7 moves with it the safe treshould will be around -5 or -6, since d1 pokes doesn't exactly start combos despite some having a 6f d1 but they still bring frame advantage.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Interesting so the tier of the fastest normal in the game its on the 7f treshold while not universaly so far it seems a good portion of the cast has it. Withing each own they have different proprieties on their archtypes, i just wanna see this theory of Cassie's (jack of all trades master of none) having all tools but not being the greatest on any area true, so lets compare a little bit.


Cassie its: +2 on block, +13 on hit, 12f recovery, 3 active frames, 14f cancel adv
Skarlet's its: -1 on block, +5 on hit, 16f recovery, 2 active frames, 17f cancel adv
Baraka's its: -3 on block, +16 on hit, 18f recovery, 2 active frames, 18f cancel adv
Geras's its: +1 on block, +20 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Johnny cage: +3 on block, +9 on hit, 12f recovery, 2 active frames, 14f cancel adv
Raiden's jab: -4 on block, +15 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Scorpion's its: -2 on block, +9 on hit, 17f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
Sonya's jab its: -5 on block, +1 on hit, 20f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv


block advantage tier (The better the more pressure a certain character has)
Best: Johnny Cage with +3 on block
Cassie with +2 on block
Geras with: +1 on block
Skarlet with: -1 on block
Scorpion with: - 2 on block
Baraka with: - 3 on block
Raiden with -4 on block
Worst: Sonya with -5 on block

Hit advantage tier (The longer the better frame traps can be applied)
Best: Geras with +20 on hit
Baraka with: +16 on hit
Raiden with + 15 on hit
Cassie with +13 on hit
Scorpion/Cahe tie wit +9 on hit
Skarlet with +5 on hit
Worst: Sonya with +1 on hit

Recovery frame tier (The less the better a character has a slim chance of getting whiff punished)
Best: Johnny and Cassie with 12f recovery
Uncommon: Skarlet with 16f recovery
Less common: Scorpion with 17f recovery
baraka with : 18f recovery
Common: Geras's raiden with 19f recovery
Worst: Sonya with 20f recovery

Active frames tier ( the more, the harder a move is to whiff punish, plus on hit advantage can be increased and block advantage can be increased if plus, block disadvantage can be reduced if minus.

Best: Cassie with 3 active frames
Common: All others with 2 active frames.

Quick examples on active frames.
Cassie's jab its +2 on block, and she has 3 active frames, if she hits her jab on active frame 2, her jab will be +3 on block, if hit on the latest active frame her jab becomes +4 on block, literally better than Johnny's jab hitting standard people on block which is +3 by default
Skarlet's Jab its -1, if hit on the latest active frame it becomes 0 on block.


I honestly will going to wait and see how this will play out, definitely not a final thing, just hope its not a bad thing, considering a some characters gain way more plus frames from a single jab on hit than others, which are usually faster than the rest of the cast and they are fast by nature, like the cage family, i feel like at very least jabs should all have at least +5 on hit advantage but no much than this considering some can be hit on latest active frames to make it more plus, and on block they shouldn't be that big either for that same reason.

Doesn't look that fair, having a jab that its plus, recovers faster on whiff and has more active frames than the rest, just a though.
Really hoping every single character has at least a very glaring weakness.
Really interesting stuff.

I don't think standing 1s tell the whole story on how good at pressure someone is though.

Scorpion and Baraka have a few strings that are + on block that aren't his jab for example. Both Scorpion and Baraka imo will excel at mid range pressure instead though, which is probably why their jabs aren't crazy too.

Its definitely a solid indicator that Johnny, Cassie, and Geras could really fuck with people at point blank range.

----------------------

A stat that I think is really telling too is everyone's fastest crouching poke (usually D1).

They're super important to squeeze in between the opponent's pressure and start your game. If you have a slow one, I'd say it's a pretty good tell that on defense when pressured that character will suffer a bit more than others(Skarlet).

6frames
Subzero: -9 on block
Geras: -3 on block
(Baraka does have a D3 that is 6f which is -3 on block though)


7frames
Johnny: -3 on block
Baraka: -3 on block
Raiden: -3 on block
Scorpion: -3 on block


8frames
Skarlet: -5 on block

(Missing, Johnny, Cassie, Kano, and Sonya info)
 

Vslayer

The Shinnok Slayer
Premium Supporter
Damn, I was just watching this and I was about at the 6min mark when I thought to myself 'I hope he shows frame data' XD

Ohh snap, Cassie Cagers Unite

@Vslayer tag all the Cassie clan... I'm drawing a blank

@Circus props for posting this, TY
Cassie players UNITE!

@STB Sgt Reed @RoninLoganX @Sugarwatermixlegit @xenogorgeous @CallMeTetris@HeroesNZ @Kal @BecomingDeath13 @Scott The Scot

and I'll update the move list thread as well with all this info.


Cassie needs a damn sub-forum already lol.
@Espio ;)
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Really interesting stuff.

I don't think standing 1s tell the whole story on how good at pressure someone is though.

Scorpion and Baraka have a few strings that are + on block that aren't his jab for example. Both Scorpion and Baraka imo will excel at mid range pressure instead though, which is probably why their jabs aren't crazy too.

Its definitely a solid indicator that Johnny, Cassie, and Geras could really fuck with people at point blank range.

----------------------

A stat that I think is really telling too is everyone's fastest crouching poke (usually D1).

They're super important to squeeze in between the opponent's pressure and start your game. If you have a slow one, I'd say it's a pretty good tell that on defense when pressured that character will suffer a bit more than others(Skarlet).

6frames
Subzero: -9 on block
Geras: -3 on block
(Baraka does have a D3 that is 6f which is -3 on block though)


7frames
Johnny: -3 on block
Baraka: -3 on block
Raiden: -3 on block
Scorpion: -3 on block


8frames
Skarlet: -5 on block

(Missing, Johnny, Cassie, Kano, and Sonya info)
Skarlet has an 8f jab for sure but she has a cancelable reversal to keep players and fast pacing players in check, really good movement which compliments her negative frames, her neutral with really fast recovery on her front and back dash and good travel speed on her walkspeeds which allows her to dance around that range or just returns to neutral if needed.






Now i look at sonya and her 7f jab its +1 on hit and has the worst recovery of all current cast, though its a bit worriesome, where for example Cage and Cassie would whiff a jab and be fine sonya would pratically die with that recovery.

Yeah for sure it doesn't tell the whole story, specially if you can flawless block pretty much anything despite opponent being way plus then it will totally going to be a very different game, one i'm really curious about on how its it going to play out.

I will go recreate and run some tests.

Ninja edit:
That first gif of 16bit's movement reminded of an type of offense i do a lot in T7 with Jin and its so godlike, we call it intimidating dashes, here is a clip of it.

 
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LawAbidingCitizen

Sunlight and Blood give me strength.
Skarlet has an 8f jab for sure but she has a cancelable reversal to keep players and fast pacing players in check, really good movement which compliments her negative frames, her neutral with really fast recovery on her front and back dash and good travel speed on her walkspeeds which allows her to dance around that range or just returns to neutral if needed.






Now i look at sonya and her 7f jab its +1 on hit and has the worst recovery of all current cast, though its a bit worriesome, where for example Cage and Cassie would whiff a jab and be fine sonya would pratically die with that recovery.

Yeah for sure it doesn't tell the whole story, specially if you can flawless block pretty much anything despite opponent being way plus then it will totally going to be a very different game, one i'm really curious about on how its it going to play out.

I will go recreate and run some tests.

Ninja edit:
That first gif of 16bit's movement reminded of an type of offense i do a lot in T7 with Jin and its so godlike, we call it intimidating dashes, here is a clip of it.

I'm very curious how Flawless Block is gonna play out in this game along with that 3f window dizzy talked about. I wonder it it could be a buffer between shitty normals and plus moves?

@Dizzy we need more info on this 3 frame window mechanic pa-pa-pa-pa pleeeeeaaaase!