New Video Shows in Depth Look at Cassie's Strings and Frame Data

Discussion in 'Mortal Kombat 11' started by Circus, Mar 8, 2019.

By Circus on Mar 8, 2019 at 10:57 PM
  1. Circus

    Circus Part-Time Kano Hostage

    PSN:
    JTCircus
    TrueUnderDawgGaming has been coming out with some videos recently. His newest installment shows off Cassie's strings while he gives his detailed impression of her playstyle in MK11.

    He gives some insight on the character that hasn't been touched on yet. So, I suggest if you want a heads up on what you'll be getting yourselves into, I'd give it a look!




    And of course, It wouldn't be a JTCircus thread without the mandatory frame data spreadsheet:

     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2019
    MKF30, HeroesNZ, Slymind and 9 others like this.
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Comments

Discussion in 'Mortal Kombat 11' started by Circus, Mar 8, 2019.

    1. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen
      Ohh snap, Cassie Cagers Unite

      @Vslayer tag all the Cassie clan... I'm drawing a blank

      @Circus props for posting this, TY
      Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    2. Circus
      Circus
      (Why isn't there a video where someone scrolls through Kano's frame data yet....)

      FeelsBad :oops:

      Edit:

      Cassie needs a damn sub-forum already lol.
    3. Pizza
      Pizza
      Excellent video!

      On another note, come on lazy admins! Stop eating burgers all day and give Cassie her sub-forum!
      LawAbidingCitizen likes this.
    4. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen

      IKR... Vslayer was starting a Frame Data thread for Cassie so this is legit awesome. Now we just need Subs, Scorps, Kanos, Sonya's, Scarlet's, Raidens for comparison.


      Except him asking for literally everything to be easier like crushing blows which are the staple for combos and high damage?

      But yes enlightening video, love the in depth Cassie rundown and ofc FD.
      Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    5. Circus
      Circus
      Ask and you shall receive!!!

      Scorpion, Sub, Skarlet, Raiden, Geras, Baraka, and Sonya frame data:
      https://testyourmight.com/threads/all-current-frame-data-for-the-characters-in-the-demo-build.68028/

      Johnny Cage Frame Data:
      All is from the demo build and submit to change, you know the drill.
      Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
      Rezk, Spinky, Konqrr and 2 others like this.
    6. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen
    7. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen
      Is this Cassie or who?
    8. Circus
      Circus
      Yes, it's definitely Cassie's lol.
      You could even double check in the video I linked.

      She doesn't have any Overhead string-starters or normals but she does have some strings that end in overheads. It's not a true mixup though because you would know the overhead is coming.

      21D2 has an overhead on the third hit.

      F412 has an overhead on the second hit.

      Cassie is relatively safe after any hit of these two strings though, so I bet if she stops short to fake-out or gun-cancel to really put mental pressure on her opponent, they'd be so focused on blocking the overheads that you might sneak in a low string, grab, or bait out a counterattack by walking backwards.

      If her low gunshot is a true low you might be able to really fuck with someone up close too (sounds punishable though).
      Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    9. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen
      You are fucking awesome.
    10. lionheart21
    11. Corruption100
      Corruption100
      Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    12. Eddy Wang
      Eddy Wang
      Interesting so the tier of the fastest normal in the game its on the 7f treshold while not universaly so far it seems a good portion of the cast has it. Withing each own they have different proprieties on their archtypes, i just wanna see this theory of Cassie's (jack of all trades master of none) having all tools but not being the greatest on any area true, so lets compare a little bit.


      Cassie its: +2 on block, +13 on hit, 12f recovery, 3 active frames, 14f cancel adv
      Skarlet's its: -1 on block, +5 on hit, 16f recovery, 2 active frames, 17f cancel adv
      Baraka's its: -3 on block, +16 on hit, 18f recovery, 2 active frames, 18f cancel adv
      Geras's its: +1 on block, +20 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
      Johnny cage: +3 on block, +9 on hit, 12f recovery, 2 active frames, 14f cancel adv
      Raiden's jab: -4 on block, +15 on hit, 19f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
      Scorpion's its: -2 on block, +9 on hit, 17f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv
      Sonya's jab its: -5 on block, +1 on hit, 20f recovery, 2 active frames, 16f cancel adv


      block advantage tier (The better the more pressure a certain character has)
      Best: Johnny Cage with +3 on block
      Cassie with +2 on block
      Geras with: +1 on block
      Skarlet with: -1 on block
      Scorpion with: - 2 on block
      Baraka with: - 3 on block
      Raiden with -4 on block
      Worst: Sonya with -5 on block

      Hit advantage tier (The longer the better frame traps can be applied)
      Best: Geras with +20 on hit
      Baraka with: +16 on hit
      Raiden with + 15 on hit
      Cassie with +13 on hit
      Scorpion/Cahe tie wit +9 on hit
      Skarlet with +5 on hit
      Worst: Sonya with +1 on hit

      Recovery frame tier (The less the better a character has a slim chance of getting whiff punished)
      Best: Johnny and Cassie with 12f recovery
      Uncommon: Skarlet with 16f recovery
      Less common: Scorpion with 17f recovery
      baraka with : 18f recovery
      Common: Geras's raiden with 19f recovery
      Worst: Sonya with 20f recovery

      Active frames tier ( the more, the harder a move is to whiff punish, plus on hit advantage can be increased and block advantage can be increased if plus, block disadvantage can be reduced if minus.

      Best: Cassie with 3 active frames
      Common: All others with 2 active frames.

      Quick examples on active frames.
      Cassie's jab its +2 on block, and she has 3 active frames, if she hits her jab on active frame 2, her jab will be +3 on block, if hit on the latest active frame her jab becomes +4 on block, literally better than Johnny's jab hitting standard people on block which is +3 by default
      Skarlet's Jab its -1, if hit on the latest active frame it becomes 0 on block.


      I honestly will going to wait and see how this will play out, definitely not a final thing, just hope its not a bad thing, considering a some characters gain way more plus frames from a single jab on hit than others, which are usually faster than the rest of the cast and they are fast by nature, like the cage family, i feel like at very least jabs should all have at least +5 on hit advantage but no much than this considering some can be hit on latest active frames to make it more plus, and on block they shouldn't be that big either for that same reason.

      Doesn't look that fair, having a jab that its plus, recovers faster on whiff and has more active frames than the rest, just a though.
      Really hoping every single character has at least a very glaring weakness.
    13. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen
      So there is 3 frame window allowing us to punish within 3 frames instead of 1 like MKX? If so this is awesome.

      So the advantage changes depending on when you connect with opponent on block/hit?

      Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that frametraps where usually achieved by cancels making normals have more advantage and less recovery? I could be wrong that's why I'm asking...

      What is the startup of all these moves?
    14. Eddy Wang
      Eddy Wang

      Dizzy never explained, so i won't know for sure until game its released, howver some members speculated that the window within a block stun of all unsafe moves are around 3 frames to input anything, being -7 or not, so we shall see, for an example Claudio's hop kick in tekken was nerfed by adding 2 frames of recovery so they adjusted that by adding two more frames of blockstun on the opponent if blocked, so ppl have more visual time to react to it if they blocked but the move is still -13 on block, this may be the same case.
      Active frames its the part or the ammount of time a move has to connect on hit or block, frame data will always give you advantage on these moves if they connect on the first active frame the rest of the animation where it was supposed to be active adds up to the recovery, so if a move has 2 active frames and its -1 and a recovery of 16f means the move produces a blockstun equally to 15 frames before your character returns to neutral, if you connect one frame late it doesn't add up and instead of having like a 16f recovery now you get a 15 which its the exact amount a blockstun of the same move produces, so as a result the advantage goes from -1 to 0 on block, and if a move its +15 on hit and you actually hit them it can increase depending on how much hit stun produces and how much recovery you get after the active frame disappear.

      Good ways to produce this advantage is by hitting opponents on meaty or at certain ranges if move has traveling proprieties but you going have to check how many active frames a move has and how long it takes to recovery, but usually these exists in fighting game, Ibuki slide its one example, if done up close its unsafe but if you slide from certain ranges it hits way late and the recovery alters and it becomes safe.

      These aren't exactly frame traps, this are hitstuns of these normals, if they hit you with it, they are this plus if hits.

      7f startup, for a string that starts a combo its actually pretty fast, if you can punish -7 moves with it the safe treshould will be around -5 or -6, since d1 pokes doesn't exactly start combos despite some having a 6f d1 but they still bring frame advantage.
    15. Circus
      Circus
      Really interesting stuff.

      I don't think standing 1s tell the whole story on how good at pressure someone is though.

      Scorpion and Baraka have a few strings that are + on block that aren't his jab for example. Both Scorpion and Baraka imo will excel at mid range pressure instead though, which is probably why their jabs aren't crazy too.

      Its definitely a solid indicator that Johnny, Cassie, and Geras could really fuck with people at point blank range.

      ----------------------

      A stat that I think is really telling too is everyone's fastest crouching poke (usually D1).

      They're super important to squeeze in between the opponent's pressure and start your game. If you have a slow one, I'd say it's a pretty good tell that on defense when pressured that character will suffer a bit more than others(Skarlet).

      6frames
      Subzero: -9 on block
      Geras: -3 on block
      (Baraka does have a D3 that is 6f which is -3 on block though)


      7frames
      Johnny: -3 on block
      Baraka: -3 on block
      Raiden: -3 on block
      Scorpion: -3 on block


      8frames
      Skarlet: -5 on block

      (Missing, Johnny, Cassie, Kano, and Sonya info)
      lionheart21 and Eddy Wang like this.
    16. Vslayer
      Vslayer
      Damn, I was just watching this and I was about at the 6min mark when I thought to myself 'I hope he shows frame data' XD

      Cassie players UNITE!

      @STB Sgt Reed @RoninLoganX @Sugarwatermixlegit @xenogorgeous @CallMeTetris@HeroesNZ @Kal @BecomingDeath13 @Scott The Scot

      and I'll update the move list thread as well with all this info.

      @Espio ;)
      Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    17. BecomingDeath13
      BecomingDeath13
    18. ShepherdOfFire
    19. Vslayer
      Vslayer
      He does talk a lot about KBs, which is cool there are some universal ones like on the uppercut and on throws.
    20. Eddy Wang
      Eddy Wang
      Skarlet has an 8f jab for sure but she has a cancelable reversal to keep players and fast pacing players in check, really good movement which compliments her negative frames, her neutral with really fast recovery on her front and back dash and good travel speed on her walkspeeds which allows her to dance around that range or just returns to neutral if needed.

      [​IMG]


      [​IMG]

      Now i look at sonya and her 7f jab its +1 on hit and has the worst recovery of all current cast, though its a bit worriesome, where for example Cage and Cassie would whiff a jab and be fine sonya would pratically die with that recovery.

      Yeah for sure it doesn't tell the whole story, specially if you can flawless block pretty much anything despite opponent being way plus then it will totally going to be a very different game, one i'm really curious about on how its it going to play out.

      I will go recreate and run some tests.

      Ninja edit:
      That first gif of 16bit's movement reminded of an type of offense i do a lot in T7 with Jin and its so godlike, we call it intimidating dashes, here is a clip of it.

      [​IMG]
      Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    21. LawAbidingCitizen
      LawAbidingCitizen
      I'm very curious how Flawless Block is gonna play out in this game along with that 3f window dizzy talked about. I wonder it it could be a buffer between shitty normals and plus moves?

      @Dizzy we need more info on this 3 frame window mechanic pa-pa-pa-pa pleeeeeaaaase!
    22. Scott The Scot
      Scott The Scot
      LawAbidingCitizen and Vslayer like this.
    23. Vslayer
      Vslayer
      I'M SORRY I COPY PASTED THE ONE IN THE OTHER THREAD

      There, I fixed it. <3
    24. Scott The Scot
      Scott The Scot
      [​IMG]

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