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New Anti Character Guide Topic-Reptile added

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
On every console and cab I've played on, I've been frozen while putting out a forceball (slow or fast) at far distance. So in other words, I was just providing my experience, hoping someone else would come forward with that scenario they've also seen. It happens lol, all I was saying.

What coin flip take?

Actually, I'm just really confused by that whole statement.
You said this:

Because looking at it this way, it makes me feel that anything over 5, is favored, and anything under, is not. Meaning in Reptile's case for example, he is only favored against 1 person, which is Cyrax, and has a 50/50 matchup with UnSub, and all the others are not in his favor.
Not a biggie, I was just implying you're right about rep's system being a little off and your info was valid. I elaborated in saying Rep's inf (lp, lp, hp) on USub, Sindel, and Kabal, tends to be easier than other infs and tips the scale in his favor. (if you want to consider rounding advantage from 50/50)
 

dubson

Noob
Ah ok, I'm with ya now.

Sorry, you were just like, combining senteces and not speaking very clear.

Confused me a little.
 
A mirror match should not be included because you there are no advantages you have that the other person doesn't. It's who plays the character the best that should win. For instance, I love picking nightwolf when I see someone else picking nightwolf, it is not, however, a counter. It is absolutely equal in every case and scenario. They should be removed from the list.
 
Reptile
and some rush down oriented characters can become to much for him.
okay, I agree rush down characters with fast runjabs can get reptile caught up very easily. Kabal is an easy target for reptile, but if he gets stuck in rubjabs, you can have some really bad times getting out of it.

but on the other side, he is not so great against characters that can teleport behind him. A Teleporting character can cause Hell for Reptile. It can shut down his Forceball Spam completely, but watch out for him Blocking.
Okay, I agree with this, and disagree with it. Tele punches fuck up the forceball traps, so real reptile players WON'T do forceballs traps, they're throw an occasional one to keep you off guard, but they'll lay off, they'll do one forceball, pretend to be doing a second but will really block you and punish you. I ALWAYS counter pick reptile with teleports. Anyone who plays ermac, or hsmoke knows how easy it is to react with a tele punch. If you can scout out when they do that, or just know what pressures people into doing that, you can just fuck them up with 2 dash punch punishers and it's over.
Tell people to be scared of his inf, but you'll never see the whole thing be done to you unless your jax usub or sindel. BARELY any players can hit the inf vs male ninjas and stryker. Most can do 3-4 dashes resulting in 50%+

It will lead into another infinite attempt. His Slide is only useful at close range, so watch out for it as well. Sheeva can Get an Uppercut after her throw against Reptile. Jade can cause all sorts of new hell for Reptile and is probably the best counter for Reptile. Her Projectile Pass move completely negates forceball spam, and her awkward female ninja properties are difficult to Juggle. Human Smoke, Scorpion, Sektor, Ermac, and Robo Smoke are probably the best teleporting characters to use against Reptile.
I don't get how blocking sets up infinites, except for when you come out of noewhere with his popup. I like to play with reptile vs. jade too, even though it's a decent counterpick and arguably the best, picking jade just means a new stragedy for reptile.

Anyway, that's just my two cents reptiles my guy, so he's the only one I might be able to give some actual advice on.

Edit: Oh yeah, and just like dreamcatcher said the inf possibilities on sindel usub and jax should lower their advantages, usub is a really good fight vs reptile, but if hes set up in the inf (which is hard to find the exact positioning) its over.
 

dubson

Noob
A mirror match should not be included because you there are no advantages you have that the other person doesn't. It's who plays the character the best that should win. For instance, I love picking nightwolf when I see someone else picking nightwolf, it is not, however, a counter. It is absolutely equal in every case and scenario. They should be removed from the list.
That's what I am saying, but he is saying that sometimes it is best to pick the mirror instead of a majority of the other characters, but I agree that it should not be included, because that is pretty much every scenario. I see what he was trying to do, but I disagree with it. He rated Reptile at an 8 against himself which you cant do, every mirror match is a 50/50 and not a counter-pick.
 
He rated Reptile at an 8 against himself which you cant do, every mirror match is a 50/50 and not a counter-pick.
That is exactly what I'm trying to say. It's so hard to put into words for some reason. It has to be, though, a 50/50, there's no arguing it.
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
Here's a document with complex property specification regarding Jade's abilities/advantages for certain circumstances. Very technical shit, download if interested.
 

Attachments

Ok Let's see here.


But again that is just based on yours and is why I dont like it, because it doesnt work right. One thing is for sure and that is the 10 point system is not good. So, I think Reptile for sure needs to be re-done with a new system.
Working on it.


lol I knew I'd come off like an asshole without meaning to...Sub-Zero far to full screen= ice shower to auto about 90% of the time. I speak from experience on every system, but your "hardly ever happens" theory has occured when I play many times. Could be just me, yet I throw a fast forceball and get frozen from cab to kaillera. All in all, Dub is correct with the coin flip take; however, the three hit inf which is much easier on usub and sindel definitely has rep favored in competitive matchup. Not sure what I'm debating about, although that "hardly" happens more than occasionally to me.

If your keeping them at bay correctly then they shouldn't even get an ice shower off. You should also have enough time to block. It DOES happen sometimes, but not as often as you say it does. Reptile and Sub are weird when matched up against each other. There was a discussion on here ages ago on this. Some people Prefer Sub in a Reptile VS Sub Match up, and other prefer Reptile. It's all on preference. I will Bring Sub up though a little as a more dangerous opponent against Reptile.


Suggestion for rating system: How about just "very weak", "weak", "average", "strong", and "very strong/counterpick"? Should be simple and well understood universally by all levels of players.
Perfect. I'm going with it. Thanks :]

Oh yeah, and just like dreamcatcher said the inf possibilities on sindel usub and jax should lower their advantages, usub is a really good fight vs reptile, but if hes set up in the inf (which is hard to find the exact positioning) its over.
I agree with Unsub and Sindel. I'm bringing them both up, but Jax stays where he is. Jax has AMAZING rush down game, but can also play a nasty defensive game. Sure, his properties allow him to be juggled easily, but his game can just be too much for Reptile to handle.




Everyone said:
Alright, I got it. Mirror matches are gone.


Dreamcatcher: I'll read it now, but comment on it tomorrow. Im heading offline soon and I don't have much time man.
 

dubson

Noob
I really think I like the +/- system best... idk, I think the only emphasis that really matters is the counter-picks, and it seems like its just the most basic/easiest.

If doing what Dreamcatcher suggested with the weak-strong or whatever, the 5 point, maybe try using the *'s to represent them

I still say the +/- system though!
 
I think you should just have 3 guys who are good counters AGAINST Reptile, and 3 guys who are Bad against Reptile.

Keep it simple.

For example. Kano, Nightwolf, H.Smoke = Bad.
USub, Cyrax, Liu = Good.

That's all you gotta do. you don't have to go through the entire roster of characters. Just pick 3 who stand out in each category.
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
I think you should just have 3 guys who are good counters AGAINST Reptile, and 3 guys who are Bad against Reptile.

Keep it simple.

For example. Kano, Nightwolf, H.Smoke = Bad.
USub, Cyrax, Liu = Good.

That's all you gotta do. you don't have to go through the entire roster of characters. Just pick 3 who stand out in each category.
Then it almost isn't even a guide, but a large checklist.
 
So you think every single character should be mentioned?

It's only ABC doing this, you know. I think he'd better use his time by picking out the obvious counters for each character instead of going into "whatifs?" that rarely happen in a real game. Just focus on the basic facts.
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
So you think every single character should be mentioned?

It's only ABC doing this, you know. I think he'd better use his time by picking out the obvious counters for each character instead of going into "whatifs?" that rarely happen in a real game. Just focus on the basic facts.
It's not "only ABC", I'm not posting info for my health. If all the guides were limited to pure basic info, there wouldn't be many MK players that think outside the box. As far as I know, the guide isn't for completely clueless newcomers...yet your suggestions are noted.
 
I suggest having 5 categories:

very good!
good
normal
bad
very bad!


Put every character into one of those 5 categories.
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
Colon cancer? That's no good, buddy...good idea. I would go with just 1-5 levels of advantage and recommend a "counterpick" note attached.
 

dubson

Noob
Thats why I like the +/- system, because it's the most basic.

++ being a counter-pick (favored)
-+ being about an average matchup
-- being not a counter-pick (not favored)

It's that simple.

That way you dont have to go too in-depth on the checklist and focus more on the counter-picks.
 
I really think I like the +/- system best... idk, I think the only emphasis that really matters is the counter-picks, and it seems like its just the most basic/easiest.

If doing what Dreamcatcher suggested with the weak-strong or whatever, the 5 point, maybe try using the *'s to represent them

I still say the +/- system though!
That's what I did first man, and No one understood it.
 

ded

Elder God
Reptile can get unblockable slide after early blocked JK. His game is zone or offensive. VS ninja teleporters its only jab pressure + slow forceballs, invisible and acid spits. Usub's Ice Shower is completely useless vs Reptile because the whiff dash. Jade's Invincibility doesnt work that well too because from far distance he will get enough time to recover from the released forceball. Good counters vs Reptile -> nightwolf, kano and sonya. And for the teleport ninjas its ermac, hsmoke and scorpion in that order. Robot's teleporters are too much risky to be spammed against forceballs.
 
Thanks for the input _ded. Now my i got some ideas haha. Yeah his iceshower gets him popped up every time!!!

I need to acid spit more with rep.