General/Other My Issues with Catwoman.

[xWildx]

I love Catwoman to death, and I will refuse to drop her. In fact, I will continue to main her despite the glaring issues she seems to have. Prior to the game's release, I'd constantly hear about her being a possible candidate for Top 5, but now? You barely even hear anyone mention her name.

One of the most bizarre issues I've noticed? She's the ONLY character in the game who is at negative frames after both her B+3 AND F+3. In fact, only 4 characters in the game (Catwoman included) are negative on one of the charged moves at all, let alone BOTH of them. Sure, tell me her hitbox is small so she needs to be punished for it, that worked just as well for Mileena.

Another issue I feel she has is that her frame-traps are non-existant. Ok, so I've spent the entire match chasing Deathstroke down and I FINALLY have him in the corner. The best I have? A 6 frame high into a highly pokeable overhead with a 2 frame advantage, or a 15 frame mid which leads into a 3 frame advantage..... I suppose I could work some pressure with that, and/or try for some mix-ups that'll ultimately leave me at disadvantage, good thing.... wait... Deathstroke has a 7 frame mid leading into an attack which leaves him at +9 and an armorable B/F+3 which leave him at +10. I suppose a zoner does need that after all, God forbid THEY have to work at getting out of pressure.

I've also noticed a lack of options for her at mid-screen. She could use her whip I guess, but... oh... GL just got her with his 10 frame lift. Her d/f+3 is punishable on block, her dash is punishable on block, no range on her other normals... that leaves her with ji2. Very good move for whiff punishment, unless the opponent is abusing their invincible backdash. This brings up horrible match-ups (IMO mind you) such as Black Adam. Unless he does Black Magic at point blank range Catwoman can do nothing to punish him. All of her damage and punishment seems to come from correct reads, while other characters can simply take more risks and see what works. Catwoman makes the wrong read? You're easily eating 30-40%.

It just feels, again this is IMO, that she was heavily nerfed before release, and as to why I can't really be sure. Even Flash, with his lack of projectiles, has more options to keep pressure with +4 poke, +9 F+3, and a mid string leaving him +9 on block. Aquaman has lows and mix-ups all over with answer to everything, yet he gets a 7 frame mid into +10 on block overhead. Cyborg is a zoner who's air projectiles have ridiculous advantage on block, advantage on B/F+3's, and a 6 frame jab string which leads to a 18 frame advantage if you don't manage to poke out in time.

And even with all this, I don't feel like I want any of the above characters nerfed, I'd simply like Catwoman brought to their level. Again, this is all IMO and I know people won't agree, but it's something I felt I needed to get off my chest. If anything NRS, at least give her a set of bolas

 

[miloPKL]

deathstroke is fine you are just a crybaby



jk

 

[Krayzie]

I can assure you that she was buffed before release.

She is actually really good. Here are some match-ups with various characters. Keep in mind I'm learning the match-ups as I play.

I learned to punish GL's machine gun, get out of Supermans block traps for a full punish, rape Cyborg, and approach Aquaman.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/krayzie-catwoman-offline-casual-matches.30906/

*Note(I just got an idea. I'm willing to bet she can punish Deathstrokes high guns with stance 3.)

I'll test this when I get home.

 

[RYX]

I complain about Bane a lot but I take him into the lab and online to try and see what I can do with him.

The movement hasn't even fully explored, we need more time for characters like these.

 

[16 Bit]

In my experience Catwoman is not a pressure character. She does not lock you down. It seems like everyone expects that from her and that's why her frame data may be baffling. Her offensive strength is a 50/50. Mixing up the low(b+1,2,d+3 hit confirm into Cat Claws) and f+3 or b+2 as the overheads. That's how she wins. If you have them blocking you go for the kill not try to keep on them. Her combos off the 50/50 then do good damage and end in hard knock downs so she can dash up and put them in good wakeup pressure.

She has two great tools. Jump 2, which can be canceled into Cat Claws to make it a safe launching jump that reaches half way across the screen. The second is d+1~Cat Claws. Very few characters in this game can combo off their d+1 both without meter and while being safe on block.

I do think she will have to work harder than the top tier. I agree she has to make reads and play on opponent's mistakes. She doesn't naturally get to play her game like other characters. She also has less powerful tools that cover multiple bases. I compare her to my other character, Killer Frost, and it's obvious how much easier it is to win with Frost. Take her 50/50. Hers is slide vs. f+3 and it cannot be fuzzy guarded, leads to even better post combo pressure than CW, and the low option slide covers so many bases. It can act as the low in the 50/50 AND blow up backdash, armor and jump out.

Catwomen are going to have to learn MU inside and out and pray on player tendencies to win.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

In my experience Catwoman is not a pressure character. She does not lock you down. It seems like everyone expects that from her and that's why her frame data may be baffling. Her offensive strength is a 50/50. Mixing up the low(b+1,2,d+3 hit confirm into Cat Claws) and f+3 or b+2 as the overheads. That's how she wins. If you have them blocking you go for the kill not try to keep on them. Her combos off the 50/50 then do good damage and end in hard knock downs so she can dash up and put them in good wakeup pressure.

She has two great tools. Jump 2, which can be canceled into Cat Claws to make it a safe launching jump that reaches half way across the screen. The second is d+1~Cat Claws. Very few characters in this game can combo off their d+1 both without meter and while being safe on block.

I do think she will have to work harder than the top tier. I agree she has to make reads and play on opponent's mistakes. She doesn't naturally get to play her game like other characters. She also has less powerful tools that cover multiple bases. I compare her to my other character, Killer Frost, and it's obvious how much easier it is to win with Frost. Take her 50/50. Hers is slide vs. f+3 and it cannot be fuzzy guarded, leads to even better post combo pressure than CW, and the low option slide covers so many bases. It can act as the low in the 50/50 AND blow up backdash, armor and jump out.

Catwomen are going to have to learn MU inside and out and pray on player tendencies to win.

You're not supposed to make long posts.

 

[Pho Cubic]

I'll add some complaints/suggestions...

1) Straight whip needs to be mid.

2) Her trait blows. Give it armor or make it an overhead or something.

3) It'd be nice if cat stance 2 was plus on block.

4) I wish you could meter burn cat dash instantly instead of having to wait. Many times I try to use the armor from MB cat dash to blow up projectiles at a distance, and the armor I need from the MB doesn't come out fast enough.

 

[HollowBlade]

I'll add some complaints/suggestions...

1) Straight whip needs to be mid.

2) Her trait blows. Give it armor or make it an overhead or something.

3) It'd be nice if cat stance 2 was plus on block.

4) I wish you could meter burn cat dash instantly instead of having to wait. Many times I try to use the armor from MB cat dash to blow up projectiles at a distance, and the armor I need from the MB doesn't come out fast enough.

I agree her df whip needs to be mid, I think it would help other characters respect her close mid range game more.

Her Trait is alright, I just find that its so incredibly inconsistent. I use the 5x trait as a combo ender but sometimes you can go quite some time with out getting a single scratch.
Ive practiced a 18 hit combo with her and some times you end up with 5 scratches sometimes you end up with 1... I would really appreciate some consistency or at least a higher chance of getting a scratch.

To be honest the best buff i would like to see for her is a buff to her evade, once evaded you can press a button and she will do a short quick dash, half the range of her normal dash. Would really make her evade useful.

 

[16 Bit]

The best use of her Cat Scratch may be as a wakeup attack. Did some testing with Dizzy tonight and I believe it's almost fully invincible on wakeup. None of her other special moves are.

 

[Eldriken]

Are you going to main Catwoman, 16? I only ask 'cause you obviously mained Kitana in MK9 and so did I, and here I am, maining Catwoman. I swear I didn't even know you were possibly even going to play her. >.>

But anywho, thanks for the tip on her Cat Scratch being possibly fully invincible on wakeup. It is SUCH a pain in the ass to get out of the corner with her 'cause of a lack of invincible wakeup options and you can't immediately Cat Dash burn out of the corner on wakeup.

That's about the only issue I have with her. Personally, I feel her burned Cat Dash is god damn broken. But I love it.

 

[SLy]

I agree with 16Bit on this one.. If you are looking to lock someone down with Catwoman most likely thats not going to happen..

Her focus is Mixups and Great Oki pressure which she has alot of. Yea Deathstroke is a hassle but I can tell he is a type of character you'd have to fight 100 times to understand.. Once you discipline yourself on what to do and what not to do It will all come a little bit easier..

 

[DreadzTsung]

They destroyed catwoman when they nerfed her. That's why I dropped her as one of my mains.

 

[Eldriken]

They destroyed catwoman when they nerfed her. That's why I dropped her as one of my mains.

What exactly did they change? I got the game a couple of days after it released and had to download the patch, so I never got to play the "vanilla" release.

 

[SLy]

What exactly did they change? I got the game a couple of days after it released and had to download the patch, so I never got to play the "vanilla" release.

From what I was hearing I think her cat stance 3 was unblockable and her B2 had better startup or something like that.. honestly the nerfs wasnt drastic enough to drop her imo.. it just took some re adapting

 

[DreadzTsung]

What exactly did they change? I got the game a couple of days after it released and had to download the patch, so I never got to play the "vanilla" release.

I'm not sure. But they slowed her down a bit I heard.

 

[Eldriken]

From what I was hearing I think her cat stance 3 was unblockable and her B2 had better startup or something like that.. honestly the nerfs wasnt drastic enough imo.. it was nothing to re adapt.

Ah, I see. Making her Cat Stance 3 to where it could be blocked makes sense. Imagine how abused it would be if it was unblockable. But none of these changes seem that bothersome, especially to make me want to main someone else. She's freakin' awesome the way she is.

 

[DreadzTsung]

Ah, I see. Making her Cat Stance 3 to where it could be blocked makes sense. Imagine how abused it would be if it was unblockable. But none of these changes seem that bothersome, especially to make me want to main someone else. She's freakin' awesome the way she is.

Oh don't get me wrong. I play her from time to time. It was smart to make her cat stance 3 blockable. But i hear they slowed her down a little. She's awesome. I just lost interest in her once I picked up Quinn.

 

[DJ L Toro]

In my experience Catwoman is not a pressure character. She does not lock you down. It seems like everyone expects that from her and that's why her frame data may be baffling. Her offensive strength is a 50/50. Mixing up the low(b+1,2,d+3 hit confirm into Cat Claws) and f+3 or b+2 as the overheads. That's how she wins. If you have them blocking you go for the kill not try to keep on them. Her combos off the 50/50 then do good damage and end in hard knock downs so she can dash up and put them in good wakeup pressure.

She has two great tools. Jump 2, which can be canceled into Cat Claws to make it a safe launching jump that reaches half way across the screen. The second is d+1~Cat Claws. Very few characters in this game can combo off their d+1 both without meter and while being safe on block.

I do think she will have to work harder than the top tier. I agree she has to make reads and play on opponent's mistakes. She doesn't naturally get to play her game like other characters. She also has less powerful tools that cover multiple bases. I compare her to my other character, Killer Frost, and it's obvious how much easier it is to win with Frost. Take her 50/50. Hers is slide vs. f+3 and it cannot be fuzzy guarded, leads to even better post combo pressure than CW, and the low option slide covers so many bases. It can act as the low in the 50/50 AND blow up backdash, armor and jump out.

Catwomen are going to have to learn MU inside and out and pray on player tendencies to win.

cat claws is bf1 right? I thought that was -14?
if you're hit confirming why not cat dash? It seems to get more damage (and honestly it's easier damage imo).
*prey

hmm, that's all good stuff to think about. I'll heep that in mind as i keep learning her.

 

[DJ L Toro]

Oh don't get me wrong. I play her from time to time. It was smart to make her cat stance 3 blockable. But i hear they slowed her down a little. She's awesome. I just lost interest in her once I picked up Quinn.

lol i did the exact opposite.

 

[16 Bit]

From what I was hearing I think her cat stance 3 was unblockable and her B2 had better startup or something like that.. honestly the nerfs wasnt drastic enough to drop her imo.. it just took some re adapting

The Cat Stance pounce was never an unblockable and b+2 wasn't slowed down. None of her moves were slowed down.

The only nerfs she's had since release were the day 1 patch having a universal damage nerf that effected her like the rest of the cast and that you can't b+3 as easily after b+2 hits because they made her recover slower after a b+2 hits. She also was buffed as part of a universal change because she got more frames to cancel a special after a d+1 hits. d+1~cat claws is easier to do now than it was.

Catwoman got the same type of changes during development everyone else got. Her design has largely remained the same. I don't know where the rumors of her once being this top 5 powerhouse come from.

 

[16 Bit]

cat claws is bf1 right? I thought that was -14?
if you're hit confirming why not cat dash? It seems to get more damage (and honestly it's easier damage imo).
*prey

hmm, that's all good stuff to think about. I'll heep that in mind as i keep learning her.

The frame data for Cat Claws is misleading. It is a multiple hit move and frame data on this is incorrect. The move is actually safe.

Also you hit confirm into Cat Claws instead of Cat Dash because Claws does more damage.

I know the Cat Dash combos are easier but I highly suggest mastering the timing of Cat Claws into b+3 in all combos. You will need to get it down eventually. d+1~cat claws is absolutely critical to CW's success. Everyone playing her needs to practice this. I can't stress this enough. d+1~Cat claws is essential.

 

[16 Bit]

Are you going to main Catwoman, 16? I only ask 'cause you obviously mained Kitana in MK9 and so did I, and here I am, maining Catwoman. I swear I didn't even know you were possibly even going to play her. >.>

But anywho, thanks for the tip on her Cat Scratch being possibly fully invincible on wakeup. It is SUCH a pain in the ass to get out of the corner with her 'cause of a lack of invincible wakeup options and you can't immediately Cat Dash burn out of the corner on wakeup.

That's about the only issue I have with her. Personally, I feel her burned Cat Dash is god damn broken. But I love it.

At this point I play Catwoman as a secondary but not my main.

MB Cat Dash is good but full combo punishable and since the armor is only in the second part you have to throw it out early. That's a problem.

 

[DJ L Toro]

The frame data for Cat Claws is misleading. It is a multiple hit move and frame data on this is incorrect. The move is actually safe.

Also you hit confirm into Cat Claws instead of Cat Dash because Claws does more damage.

I know the Cat Dash combos are easier but I highly suggest mastering the timing of Cat Claws into b+3 in all combos. You will need to get it down eventually. d+1~cat claws is absolutely critical to CW's success. Everyone playing her needs to practice this. I can't stress this enough. d+1~Cat claws is essential.

will do, thanks.

 

[Zoidberg747]

lol i did the exact opposite.

Your sig is fucking hilarious. Oh my god.

 

[DJ L Toro]

The frame data for Cat Claws is misleading. It is a multiple hit move and frame data on this is incorrect. The move is actually safe.

Also you hit confirm into Cat Claws instead of Cat Dash because Claws does more damage.

I know the Cat Dash combos are easier but I highly suggest mastering the timing of Cat Claws into b+3 in all combos. You will need to get it down eventually. d+1~cat claws is absolutely critical to CW's success. Everyone playing her needs to practice this. I can't stress this enough. d+1~Cat claws is essential.

wow you're right cat claws gets 40 meterless and traitless, 44 with trait that's insane.