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Strategy Moving faster than the flash

SidTheHaze

25th place Tempest Lao
Ok so I'v seen a lot of people talk about how great the flash is, he's broke, etc. These things may be true but every character is beatable. Before i start talking about how to beat the flash i just want to say that I am in no way downplaying the flash, i'm sure he's top 5 and beats some of the cast 6-4.


LAND THE FIRST HIT.
For the love of injustice if you land the first hit you've already put the flash at a huge disadvantage. This is because if flash wants to get that huge trait damage combo (50%-60%) he has to use meter...bottom line.

But Sid what if flash gets in and does a meterless combo?
who cares? his highest meterless combo midscreen is 20% and thats on a good day.

Lets say you did everything right, got the first hit, did a combo, took some health...what now?
Well flash is gonna use that bar he built and take half of your life into a hkd setup, are we gonna let this happen...hell no. So we have to start looking at his options and looking at how to punish them.

dash into d1d2
As godly as you think this might be this is a gimmick that people barely punish.......in this games dashes are very punishable and then couple that with someone trying to add a 7-frame move onto it and your looking at field day. If flash really like using this option you have 2 options either throw out your quickest normal when you see the dash(in most cases its a d1) or neutral jump it and blow up his d1d2 attempt.

But Sid my d1 isn't good and my jump is too floaty?
I'm guessing you must be playing grundy, in that case use that ridiculous d2 you have or walking corpse.

j1.2.3
Lets be serious....besides breaking armor with j2 (which you can't do on reaction) or the active frames on j1 his air normals aren't as good as people think. Its extremely hard to cross anyone up with these move and the hit boxes are exactly what they look like. These move are extremely easy to trip guard which is what you should do......or anti-air, whichever is more convenient for your character.

b22 RMSC
Ok so by this time you've been conditioned to block and he is going to try and mix up the hell out of you but don't fret obi-wan with some fruits of wisdom. So, there is only 1 move that you are completely garunteed to block and that d1d2. So if you think he is going to do anything other this this just jump, whats the worst that could happen? he scouts out the jump get a d2 for maybe 25%.....but it is unlikely any flash is gonna do that because d2 is combo punishable on block so if he does any other follow up its a free combo.

Lightning Charge
If flash isn't in f2 range just block low there is no reason not to. If flash sees you ducking and still does a lc they deserve the blow up because no bueno move to just throw out unless its garunteed.....even though all flash players do it, even me >_>

But Sid what if he does sonic pound instead?
well if you cant react to it then duck for 1-2 sec.....the flash player will say hey this guy is ducking ill do a sonic pound. Thats when you stand block it and you successfully baited a move good job.

The meterless vortex
Ok so lets say flash gets the d1d2 lk but has no meter, you have to block because he too much frame advantage for you not to. Flash players assume that people will try to wiggle themselves out of the vortex as fast as possible so they go for the mixup as soon as they get the lk. This is why you have to fuzzy guard his low high mixup but the trick is that if you see the low come out you have to keep blocking low or you will get hit by the second move which is a low move.

HKD Setups
Ok so the worst has happened you got caught in the club trying to a look at flash's girlfriend he met you in the alley and he did a hkd. So depending on what move he used to do the hkd determines your next course of action.
-lightning charge.........high or low pick your , in the corner you can get a mb sonic pound to cross up. ive never seen it done in tournament but it is a possibility nonetheless
-32........most likely they will do a cross up mb sonic pound, just block the other way.


Laming the flash out
Ok so you got the life lead, what now? Lame the flash out! if there is one character who struggles with getting back in after being full screen its flash. If you have a projectile that cant be punished by lc spam it! If flash is ever 1/2 screen away from you 70% of the time they'll try to get a read on a lc or just throw it out. don't give them the satisfaction, use jumping back normals to your advantage! I've seen many MANY flash players lose a match just because of whiffed lc.....you have to capitalize on those mistakes especially when you have the life lead because that is when their most likely to come out.

Blowing up the flash on wake up
Ok the flash is complete shit on hkd, his wakeups are pretty ass if you know how to deal wit them.
-lk....very underused wakeup and has good invul frames, blown up by neutral jump or cross up.
-lc....if your opponent tries to neutral jump you, you fly 3/4 screen....great for getting out of the corner, blown up by ducking.
-flying uppercut....6 frames, great if their trying to mix you up on hkd but probably safer to go for a lk, blown up by blocking or neutral jumping.
phase dodge.....fuck this move......seriously....dont use it on wake up if you like looking at your health bar.
-sonic pound.....catches people off guard who are trying to punish a lc...you look like a complete dumb ass if someone reverses your wakeup by jumping over you.

Flash isn't as bad as people make him out to be....yeah he has a lot of bullshit but he also gets blown up by a lot of bullshit too.
I hope this helped someone with the mu or gave people knowledge on the flash

@HoneyBee
@Zyphox
@Jim
@n-megabytes
@The_SNKE
@Xenrail
@BrobaChett
@AK Harold




 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
He still bodys Joker 7-3 and is great for a player that players a reactionary game extremely well just like that guy above ^
 

mwelele zaza

Aioffe Belle
Ok so I'v seen a lot of people talk about how great the flash is, he's broke, etc. These things may be true but every character is beatable. Before i start talking about how to beat the flash i just want to say that I am in no way downplaying the flash, i'm sure he's top 5 and beats some of the cast 6-4.


LAND THE FIRST HIT.
For the love of injustice if you land the first hit you've already put the flash at a huge disadvantage. This is because if flash wants to get that huge trait damage combo (50%-60%) he has to use meter...bottom line.

But Sid what if flash gets in and does a meterless combo?
who cares? his highest meterless combo midscreen is 20% and thats on a good day.

Lets say you did everything right, got the first hit, did a combo, took some health...what now?
Well flash is gonna use that bar he built and take half of your life into a hkd setup, are we gonna let this happen...hell no. So we have to start looking at his options and looking at how to punish them.

dash into d1d2
As godly as you think this might be this is a gimmick that people barely punish.......in this games dashes are very punishable and then couple that with someone trying to add a 7-frame move onto it and your looking at field day. If flash really like using this option you have 2 options either throw out your quickest normal when you see the dash(in most cases its a d1) or neutral jump it and blow up his d1d2 attempt.

But Sid my d1 isn't good and my jump is too floaty?
I'm guessing you must be playing grundy, in that case use that ridiculous d2 you have or walking corpse.

j1.2.3
Lets be serious....besides breaking armor with j2 (which you can't do on reaction) or the active frames on j1 his air normals aren't as good as people think. Its extremely hard to cross anyone up with these move and the hit boxes are exactly what they look like. These move are extremely easy to trip guard which is what you should do......or anti-air, whichever is more convenient for your character.

b22 RMSC
Ok so by this time you've been conditioned to block and he is going to try and mix up the hell out of you but don't fret obi-wan with some fruits of wisdom. So, there is only 1 move that you are completely garunteed to block and that d1d2. So if you think he is going to do anything other this this just jump, whats the worst that could happen? he scouts out the jump get a d2 for maybe 25%.....but it is unlikely any flash is gonna do that because d2 is combo punishable on block so if he does any other follow up its a free combo.

Lightning Charge
If flash isn't in f2 range just block low there is no reason not to. If flash sees you ducking and still does a lc they deserve the blow up because no bueno move to just throw out unless its garunteed.....even though all flash players do it, even me >_>

But Sid what if he does sonic pound instead?
well if you cant react to it then duck for 1-2 sec.....the flash player will say hey this guy is ducking ill do a sonic pound. Thats when you stand block it and you successfully baited a move good job.

The meterless vortex
Ok so lets say flash gets the d1d2 lk but has no meter, you have to block because he too much frame advantage for you not to. Flash players assume that people will try to wiggle themselves out of the vortex as fast as possible so they go for the mixup as soon as they get the lk. This is why you have to fuzzy guard his low high mixup but the trick is that if you see the low come out you have to keep blocking low or you will get hit by the second move which is a low move.

HKD Setups
Ok so the worst has happened you got caught in the club trying to a look at flash's girlfriend he met you in the alley and he did a hkd. So depending on what move he used to do the hkd determines your next course of action.
-lightning charge.........high or low pick your , in the corner you can get a mb sonic pound to cross up. ive never seen it done in tournament but it is a possibility nonetheless
-32........most likely they will do a cross up mb sonic pound, just block the other way.


Laming the flash out
Ok so you got the life lead, what now? Lame the flash out! if there is one character who struggles with getting back in after being full screen its flash. If you have a projectile that cant be punished by lc spam it! If flash is ever 1/2 screen away from you 70% of the time they'll try to get a read on a lc or just throw it out. don't give them the satisfaction, use jumping back normals to your advantage! I've seen many MANY flash players lose a match just because of whiffed lc.....you have to capitalize on those mistakes especially when you have the life lead because that is when their most likely to come out.

Blowing up the flash on wake up
Ok the flash is complete shit on hkd, his wakeups are pretty ass if you know how to deal wit them.
-lk....very underused wakeup and has good invul frames, blown up by neutral jump or cross up.
-lc....if your opponent tries to neutral jump you, you fly 3/4 screen....great for getting out of the corner, blown up by ducking.
-flying uppercut....6 frames, great if their trying to mix you up on hkd but probably safer to go for a lk, blown up by blocking or neutral jumping.
phase dodge.....fuck this move......seriously....dont use it on wake up if you like looking at your health bar.
-sonic pound.....catches people off guard who are trying to punish a lc...you look like a complete dumb ass if someone reverses your wakeup by jumping over you.

Flash isn't as bad as people make him out to be....yeah he has a lot of bullshit but he also gets blown up by a lot of bullshit too.
I hope this helped someone with the mu or gave people knowledge on the flash

@HoneyBee
@Zyphox
@Jim
@n-megabytes
@The_SNKE
@Xenrail
@BrobaChett
@AK Harold




I like this thread but please make this exact thread for batgirl!!!
 

mwelele zaza

Aioffe Belle
Ok so I'v seen a lot of people talk about how great the flash is, he's broke, etc. These things may be true but every character is beatable. Before i start talking about how to beat the flash i just want to say that I am in no way downplaying the flash, i'm sure he's top 5 and beats some of the cast 6-4.


LAND THE FIRST HIT.
For the love of injustice if you land the first hit you've already put the flash at a huge disadvantage. This is because if flash wants to get that huge trait damage combo (50%-60%) he has to use meter...bottom line.

But Sid what if flash gets in and does a meterless combo?
who cares? his highest meterless combo midscreen is 20% and thats on a good day.

Lets say you did everything right, got the first hit, did a combo, took some health...what now?
Well flash is gonna use that bar he built and take half of your life into a hkd setup, are we gonna let this happen...hell no. So we have to start looking at his options and looking at how to punish them.

dash into d1d2
As godly as you think this might be this is a gimmick that people barely punish.......in this games dashes are very punishable and then couple that with someone trying to add a 7-frame move onto it and your looking at field day. If flash really like using this option you have 2 options either throw out your quickest normal when you see the dash(in most cases its a d1) or neutral jump it and blow up his d1d2 attempt.

But Sid my d1 isn't good and my jump is too floaty?
I'm guessing you must be playing grundy, in that case use that ridiculous d2 you have or walking corpse.

j1.2.3
Lets be serious....besides breaking armor with j2 (which you can't do on reaction) or the active frames on j1 his air normals aren't as good as people think. Its extremely hard to cross anyone up with these move and the hit boxes are exactly what they look like. These move are extremely easy to trip guard which is what you should do......or anti-air, whichever is more convenient for your character.

b22 RMSC
Ok so by this time you've been conditioned to block and he is going to try and mix up the hell out of you but don't fret obi-wan with some fruits of wisdom. So, there is only 1 move that you are completely garunteed to block and that d1d2. So if you think he is going to do anything other this this just jump, whats the worst that could happen? he scouts out the jump get a d2 for maybe 25%.....but it is unlikely any flash is gonna do that because d2 is combo punishable on block so if he does any other follow up its a free combo.

Lightning Charge
If flash isn't in f2 range just block low there is no reason not to. If flash sees you ducking and still does a lc they deserve the blow up because no bueno move to just throw out unless its garunteed.....even though all flash players do it, even me >_>

But Sid what if he does sonic pound instead?
well if you cant react to it then duck for 1-2 sec.....the flash player will say hey this guy is ducking ill do a sonic pound. Thats when you stand block it and you successfully baited a move good job.

The meterless vortex
Ok so lets say flash gets the d1d2 lk but has no meter, you have to block because he too much frame advantage for you not to. Flash players assume that people will try to wiggle themselves out of the vortex as fast as possible so they go for the mixup as soon as they get the lk. This is why you have to fuzzy guard his low high mixup but the trick is that if you see the low come out you have to keep blocking low or you will get hit by the second move which is a low move.

HKD Setups
Ok so the worst has happened you got caught in the club trying to a look at flash's girlfriend he met you in the alley and he did a hkd. So depending on what move he used to do the hkd determines your next course of action.
-lightning charge.........high or low pick your , in the corner you can get a mb sonic pound to cross up. ive never seen it done in tournament but it is a possibility nonetheless
-32........most likely they will do a cross up mb sonic pound, just block the other way.


Laming the flash out
Ok so you got the life lead, what now? Lame the flash out! if there is one character who struggles with getting back in after being full screen its flash. If you have a projectile that cant be punished by lc spam it! If flash is ever 1/2 screen away from you 70% of the time they'll try to get a read on a lc or just throw it out. don't give them the satisfaction, use jumping back normals to your advantage! I've seen many MANY flash players lose a match just because of whiffed lc.....you have to capitalize on those mistakes especially when you have the life lead because that is when their most likely to come out.

Blowing up the flash on wake up
Ok the flash is complete shit on hkd, his wakeups are pretty ass if you know how to deal wit them.
-lk....very underused wakeup and has good invul frames, blown up by neutral jump or cross up.
-lc....if your opponent tries to neutral jump you, you fly 3/4 screen....great for getting out of the corner, blown up by ducking.
-flying uppercut....6 frames, great if their trying to mix you up on hkd but probably safer to go for a lk, blown up by blocking or neutral jumping.
phase dodge.....fuck this move......seriously....dont use it on wake up if you like looking at your health bar.
-sonic pound.....catches people off guard who are trying to punish a lc...you look like a complete dumb ass if someone reverses your wakeup by jumping over you.

Flash isn't as bad as people make him out to be....yeah he has a lot of bullshit but he also gets blown up by a lot of bullshit too.
I hope this helped someone with the mu or gave people knowledge on the flash

@HoneyBee
@Zyphox
@Jim
@n-megabytes
@The_SNKE
@Xenrail
@BrobaChett
@AK Harold




I like this thread but please make this exact thread for batgirl!!!
 

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
Ok so I'v seen a lot of people talk about how great the flash is, he's broke, etc. These things may be true but every character is beatable. Before i start talking about how to beat the flash i just want to say that I am in no way downplaying the flash, i'm sure he's top 5 and beats some of the cast 6-4.


1) LAND THE FIRST HIT.
For the love of injustice if you land the first hit you've already put the flash at a huge disadvantage. This is because if flash wants to get that huge trait damage combo (50%-60%) he has to use meter...bottom line.

But Sid what if flash gets in and does a meterless combo?
who cares? his highest meterless combo midscreen is 20% and thats on a good day.

Lets say you did everything right, got the first hit, did a combo, took some health...what now?
Well flash is gonna use that bar he built and take half of your life into a hkd setup, are we gonna let this happen...hell no. So we have to start looking at his options and looking at how to punish them.

2) dash into d1d2
As godly as you think this might be this is a gimmick that people barely punish.......in this games dashes are very punishable and then couple that with someone trying to add a 7-frame move onto it and your looking at field day. If flash really like using this option you have 2 options either throw out your quickest normal when you see the dash(in most cases its a d1) or neutral jump it and blow up his d1d2 attempt.

But Sid my d1 isn't good and my jump is too floaty?
I'm guessing you must be playing grundy, in that case use that ridiculous d2 you have or walking corpse.

3) j1.2.3
Lets be serious....besides breaking armor with j2 (which you can't do on reaction) or the active frames on j1 his air normals aren't as good as people think. Its extremely hard to cross anyone up with these move and the hit boxes are exactly what they look like. These move are extremely easy to trip guard which is what you should do......or anti-air, whichever is more convenient for your character.

4) b22 RMSC
Ok so by this time you've been conditioned to block and he is going to try and mix up the hell out of you but don't fret obi-wan with some fruits of wisdom. So, there is only 1 move that you are completely garunteed to block and that d1d2. So if you think he is going to do anything other this this just jump, whats the worst that could happen? he scouts out the jump get a d2 for maybe 25%.....but it is unlikely any flash is gonna do that because d2 is combo punishable on block so if he does any other follow up its a free combo.

5)Lightning Charge
If flash isn't in f2 range just block low there is no reason not to. If flash sees you ducking and still does a lc they deserve the blow up because no bueno move to just throw out unless its garunteed.....even though all flash players do it, even me >_>

But Sid what if he does sonic pound instead?
well if you cant react to it then duck for 1-2 sec.....the flash player will say hey this guy is ducking ill do a sonic pound. Thats when you stand block it and you successfully baited a move good job.

6)The meterless vortex
Ok so lets say flash gets the d1d2 lk but has no meter, you have to block because he too much frame advantage for you not to. Flash players assume that people will try to wiggle themselves out of the vortex as fast as possible so they go for the mixup as soon as they get the lk. This is why you have to fuzzy guard his low high mixup but the trick is that if you see the low come out you have to keep blocking low or you will get hit by the second move which is a low move.

7)HKD Setups
Ok so the worst has happened you got caught in the club trying to a look at flash's girlfriend he met you in the alley and he did a hkd. So depending on what move he used to do the hkd determines your next course of action.
-lightning charge.........high or low pick your , in the corner you can get a mb sonic pound to cross up. ive never seen it done in tournament but it is a possibility nonetheless
-32........most likely they will do a cross up mb sonic pound, just block the other way.


8)Laming the flash out
Ok so you got the life lead, what now? Lame the flash out! if there is one character who struggles with getting back in after being full screen its flash. If you have a projectile that cant be punished by lc spam it! If flash is ever 1/2 screen away from you 70% of the time they'll try to get a read on a lc or just throw it out. don't give them the satisfaction, use jumping back normals to your advantage! I've seen many MANY flash players lose a match just because of whiffed lc.....you have to capitalize on those mistakes especially when you have the life lead because that is when their most likely to come out.

9)Blowing up the flash on wake up
Ok the flash is complete shit on hkd, his wakeups are pretty ass if you know how to deal wit them.
-lk....very underused wakeup and has good invul frames, blown up by neutral jump or cross up.
-lc....if your opponent tries to neutral jump you, you fly 3/4 screen....great for getting out of the corner, blown up by ducking.
-flying uppercut....6 frames, great if their trying to mix you up on hkd but probably safer to go for a lk, blown up by blocking or neutral jumping.
phase dodge.....fuck this move......seriously....dont use it on wake up if you like looking at your health bar.
-sonic pound.....catches people off guard who are trying to punish a lc...you look like a complete dumb ass if someone reverses your wakeup by jumping over you.

Flash isn't as bad as people make him out to be....yeah he has a lot of bullshit but he also gets blown up by a lot of bullshit too.
I hope this helped someone with the mu or gave people knowledge on the flash
1) While I do agree that getting the first hit is important for Flash (as it is with any character in this game), I don't think he's at any huge disadvantage if I fail to get the first hit. If I do concede the first hit, odds are that you have done so and at the same time have managed to get me into a full combo. This means that I most likely already built a bar of meter from you hitting me so I'm still in a position to start my own 50-60% combo with a bar of meter and trait once I get that hit.

Let's say you just got me with a stray hit so we are now in the neutral game but you have that bar of meter and I have nothing. In this case I can attempt to scout jumps more so to blow them up with a Flying Uppercut into trait for a 51% meterless combo anyways. I also have the option of doing a B22 ~ Trait and then going for a D12 (which usually opens people up) and that can turn into a 50% combo with corner carry that's meterless as well. And if there is a BGB available that leads to even more opportunities for me to get big damage without needing meter.

2) Agree.

3) Agree.

4) Getting out of B22 RMS pressure isn't as simple as just jumping back because as soon as I catch on to any sort of pattern I can adjust to punish that option. If you jump back I can punish with a Flying Uppercut into 51% with trait. I can always do a D2 ~ RMS cancel to make myself safe and still have time to react to hit confirm into a full combo that ends in a HKD and setup. Jumping out can certainly save you if the Flash player continuously uses D12 and refuses to change that but anything you make a habit out of can be punished for big damage.

5) Agree with the LC part but for a raw SP, it's reactable so they should actually be using a move to D2 it and blow it up instead of just blocking it.

6) I don't think it's really possible to fuzzy the overhead/low option solely because of the fact that Flash's D12 is a double low. If it was low mid then by all means yes, you shouldn't have much of a problem blocking that. The fact that it's about the same amount of frames for the second hit to come out in the D12 and the F2, you really just have to guess. Another thing I'd like to add is that his 'meterless vortex' only works in the corner. If you're midscreen you can easily backdash after a non MB LK. And once you guess right in the corner it means you blocked a LK so I'm now -5 and I have to respect your next move. This is why I never use this option.

7) While I agree with most Flash's using a normal MB SP to cross up after 32, once again it all depends on what your opponents blocking pattern is. The second they block it, you can opt to do something different. In a tournament setting, Flash players will almost always go for the most reliable ways to open people up at the beginning of the set if the person you're playing against isn't someone you regularly play. But there's always time to adjust. And a side note is that I use MB SP in the corner to cross up a lot in tournament or casuals lol.

8) Dude noooooo. Absolutely not. If there is one character who doesn't give a shit when he's full screen, it's Flash. I can be sent full screen but IDGAF cause I'm back in your face with 2 dashes. If I'm playing AM and I'm full screen, one dash and I'm good to go. Against any zoning character I can block one projectile and get a free dash in and then I'm already within LC range so now they're scared of me so I can walk and play the neutral game.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Flash players DO NOT make enough use of RMS fullscreen. When I say this, I'm referring to characters that don't have a tracking projectile or a very quick projectile. So characters like AM, Nightwing (staff), Raven, Green Arrow, etc., never (or very rarely) use RMS fullscreen lol. But against characters like Hawgirl, Green Lantern, Zod, Bane, etc. Using RMS and cancelling it continuously causes your opponent to not know exactly when you want to come in and a lot of the time they will jump back when they see you run forward to try to stuff a LC but if you cancel it you can open them up using a delayed LC, Flying Uppercut, Dash in as they land, etc.

9) I think flash has some of the best wake up options in the game. You should really just feel out the player and see once again if there's a pattern they use. Do they wake up every time? Do they always use a certain move? If the Flash player tends to use Flying Uppercut or LC/ MB LC, just duck and punish. If he uses SP you can easily D2 him and full combo punish. If he uses LK then you can stuff it because it's not completely invincible but if you try to stuff it and fail then ggs cause I just got a 50% combo on you lol. If you have no idea what they're gonna wake up with or if they're gonna wake up at all, then the Flash player has done a good job of making himself hard to read so gg.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
@SidTheHaze in the corner after lc you never seen anyone use MB sonicpound to cross up?????? you know how many people in tournament, on stream i have with with that? AND pretty much every flash player i've seen has used it at least once in tournament. anyway i believe everything you said also has a counter on flash's part. for example you say flash is ass on wakeup.....Flash is top 3 when knocked down, why? he has options for everything and has 2 fully invincible wake ups, and you didn't even mention the ability to wake up invincibly with LK cancel into dash or backdash. you could follow all the stuff you have posted and still not beat me or honeybee in a set or tournament match, i think us flash players are actually hanging ourselves more than actually being beat/outplayed or bad MU. for example at TFC my matches vs Ray riazy, i played the worst tournament set of my life, lost 3-2, re grouped myself after 3 -0 everyone until i got my runback, then i 3 -0 him. did he out play me in our first set? yeah because i was playing like shit, and very stupidly, same thing could have been about ray in our 2nd set. then i lost to jupiter who knows the flash MU and hasn't lost to flash since WB.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
1) While I do agree that getting the first hit is important for Flash (as it is with any character in this game), I don't think he's at any huge disadvantage if I fail to get the first hit. If I do concede the first hit, odds are that you have done so and at the same time have managed to get me into a full combo. This means that I most likely already built a bar of meter from you hitting me so I'm still in a position to start my own 50-60% combo with a bar of meter and trait once I get that hit.

Let's say you just got me with a stray hit so we are now in the neutral game but you have that bar of meter and I have nothing. In this case I can attempt to scout jumps more so to blow them up with a Flying Uppercut into trait for a 51% meterless combo anyways. I also have the option of doing a B22 ~ Trait and then going for a D12 (which usually opens people up) and that can turn into a 50% combo with corner carry that's meterless as well. And if there is a BGB available that leads to even more opportunities for me to get big damage without needing meter.

2) Agree.

3) Agree.

4) Getting out of B22 RMS pressure isn't as simple as just jumping back because as soon as I catch on to any sort of pattern I can adjust to punish that option. If you jump back I can punish with a Flying Uppercut into 51% with trait. I can always do a D2 ~ RMS cancel to make myself safe and still have time to react to hit confirm into a full combo that ends in a HKD and setup. Jumping out can certainly save you if the Flash player continuously uses D12 and refuses to change that but anything you make a habit out of can be punished for big damage.

5) Agree with the LC part but for a raw SP, it's reactable so they should actually be using a move to D2 it and blow it up instead of just blocking it.

6) I don't think it's really possible to fuzzy the overhead/low option solely because of the fact that Flash's D12 is a double low. If it was low mid then by all means yes, you shouldn't have much of a problem blocking that. The fact that it's about the same amount of frames for the second hit to come out in the D12 and the F2, you really just have to guess. Another thing I'd like to add is that his 'meterless vortex' only works in the corner. If you're midscreen you can easily backdash after a non MB LK. And once you guess right in the corner it means you blocked a LK so I'm now -5 and I have to respect your next move. This is why I never use this option.

7) While I agree with most Flash's using a normal MB SP to cross up after 32, once again it all depends on what your opponents blocking pattern is. The second they block it, you can opt to do something different. In a tournament setting, Flash players will almost always go for the most reliable ways to open people up at the beginning of the set if the person you're playing against isn't someone you regularly play. But there's always time to adjust. And a side note is that I use MB SP in the corner to cross up a lot in tournament or casuals lol.

8) Dude noooooo. Absolutely not. If there is one character who doesn't give a shit when he's full screen, it's Flash. I can be sent full screen but IDGAF cause I'm back in your face with 2 dashes. If I'm playing AM and I'm full screen, one dash and I'm good to go. Against any zoning character I can block one projectile and get a free dash in and then I'm already within LC range so now they're scared of me so I can walk and play the neutral game.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Flash players DO NOT make enough use of RMS fullscreen. When I say this, I'm referring to characters that don't have a tracking projectile or a very quick projectile. So characters like AM, Nightwing (staff), Raven, Green Arrow, etc., never (or very rarely) use RMS fullscreen lol. But against characters like Hawgirl, Green Lantern, Zod, Bane, etc. Using RMS and cancelling it continuously causes your opponent to not know exactly when you want to come in and a lot of the time they will jump back when they see you run forward to try to stuff a LC but if you cancel it you can open them up using a delayed LC, Flying Uppercut, Dash in as they land, etc.

9) I think flash has some of the best wake up options in the game. You should really just feel out the player and see once again if there's a pattern they use. Do they wake up every time? Do they always use a certain move? If the Flash player tends to use Flying Uppercut or LC/ MB LC, just duck and punish. If he uses SP you can easily D2 him and full combo punish. If he uses LK then you can stuff it because it's not completely invincible but if you try to stuff it and fail then ggs cause I just got a 50% combo on you lol. If you have no idea what they're gonna wake up with or if they're gonna wake up at all, then the Flash player has done a good job of making himself hard to read so gg.
agree with everything 1000000% also lets be serious b22 and b22f3 whiffing on certain characters is complete bullshit and IMO one of his worst problems. for example lobo, martian, GL can duck and blow up full combo a b22f3 on block...... and in the corner b22f3 Sp is a 50/50 with MB and non MB versions and regular or far versions, its a good mix up that we barely get to use because more than half the cast can duck it........
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
1) While I do agree that getting the first hit is important for Flash (as it is with any character in this game), I don't think he's at any huge disadvantage if I fail to get the first hit. If I do concede the first hit, odds are that you have done so and at the same time have managed to get me into a full combo. This means that I most likely already built a bar of meter from you hitting me so I'm still in a position to start my own 50-60% combo with a bar of meter and trait once I get that hit.

Let's say you just got me with a stray hit so we are now in the neutral game but you have that bar of meter and I have nothing. In this case I can attempt to scout jumps more so to blow them up with a Flying Uppercut into trait for a 51% meterless combo anyways. I also have the option of doing a B22 ~ Trait and then going for a D12 (which usually opens people up) and that can turn into a 50% combo with corner carry that's meterless as well. And if there is a BGB available that leads to even more opportunities for me to get big damage without needing meter.

2) Agree.

3) Agree.

4) Getting out of B22 RMS pressure isn't as simple as just jumping back because as soon as I catch on to any sort of pattern I can adjust to punish that option. If you jump back I can punish with a Flying Uppercut into 51% with trait. I can always do a D2 ~ RMS cancel to make myself safe and still have time to react to hit confirm into a full combo that ends in a HKD and setup. Jumping out can certainly save you if the Flash player continuously uses D12 and refuses to change that but anything you make a habit out of can be punished for big damage.

5) Agree with the LC part but for a raw SP, it's reactable so they should actually be using a move to D2 it and blow it up instead of just blocking it.

6) I don't think it's really possible to fuzzy the overhead/low option solely because of the fact that Flash's D12 is a double low. If it was low mid then by all means yes, you shouldn't have much of a problem blocking that. The fact that it's about the same amount of frames for the second hit to come out in the D12 and the F2, you really just have to guess. Another thing I'd like to add is that his 'meterless vortex' only works in the corner. If you're midscreen you can easily backdash after a non MB LK. And once you guess right in the corner it means you blocked a LK so I'm now -5 and I have to respect your next move. This is why I never use this option.

7) While I agree with most Flash's using a normal MB SP to cross up after 32, once again it all depends on what your opponents blocking pattern is. The second they block it, you can opt to do something different. In a tournament setting, Flash players will almost always go for the most reliable ways to open people up at the beginning of the set if the person you're playing against isn't someone you regularly play. But there's always time to adjust. And a side note is that I use MB SP in the corner to cross up a lot in tournament or casuals lol.

8) Dude noooooo. Absolutely not. If there is one character who doesn't give a shit when he's full screen, it's Flash. I can be sent full screen but IDGAF cause I'm back in your face with 2 dashes. If I'm playing AM and I'm full screen, one dash and I'm good to go. Against any zoning character I can block one projectile and get a free dash in and then I'm already within LC range so now they're scared of me so I can walk and play the neutral game.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Flash players DO NOT make enough use of RMS fullscreen. When I say this, I'm referring to characters that don't have a tracking projectile or a very quick projectile. So characters like AM, Nightwing (staff), Raven, Green Arrow, etc., never (or very rarely) use RMS fullscreen lol. But against characters like Hawgirl, Green Lantern, Zod, Bane, etc. Using RMS and cancelling it continuously causes your opponent to not know exactly when you want to come in and a lot of the time they will jump back when they see you run forward to try to stuff a LC but if you cancel it you can open them up using a delayed LC, Flying Uppercut, Dash in as they land, etc.

9) I think flash has some of the best wake up options in the game. You should really just feel out the player and see once again if there's a pattern they use. Do they wake up every time? Do they always use a certain move? If the Flash player tends to use Flying Uppercut or LC/ MB LC, just duck and punish. If he uses SP you can easily D2 him and full combo punish. If he uses LK then you can stuff it because it's not completely invincible but if you try to stuff it and fail then ggs cause I just got a 50% combo on you lol. If you have no idea what they're gonna wake up with or if they're gonna wake up at all, then the Flash player has done a good job of making himself hard to read so gg.
Literally perfect
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
1) While I do agree that getting the first hit is important for Flash (as it is with any character in this game), I don't think he's at any huge disadvantage if I fail to get the first hit. If I do concede the first hit, odds are that you have done so and at the same time have managed to get me into a full combo. This means that I most likely already built a bar of meter from you hitting me so I'm still in a position to start my own 50-60% combo with a bar of meter and trait once I get that hit.

Let's say you just got me with a stray hit so we are now in the neutral game but you have that bar of meter and I have nothing. In this case I can attempt to scout jumps more so to blow them up with a Flying Uppercut into trait for a 51% meterless combo anyways. I also have the option of doing a B22 ~ Trait and then going for a D12 (which usually opens people up) and that can turn into a 50% combo with corner carry that's meterless as well. And if there is a BGB available that leads to even more opportunities for me to get big damage without needing meter.

2) Agree.

3) Agree.

4) Getting out of B22 RMS pressure isn't as simple as just jumping back because as soon as I catch on to any sort of pattern I can adjust to punish that option. If you jump back I can punish with a Flying Uppercut into 51% with trait. I can always do a D2 ~ RMS cancel to make myself safe and still have time to react to hit confirm into a full combo that ends in a HKD and setup. Jumping out can certainly save you if the Flash player continuously uses D12 and refuses to change that but anything you make a habit out of can be punished for big damage.

5) Agree with the LC part but for a raw SP, it's reactable so they should actually be using a move to D2 it and blow it up instead of just blocking it.

6) I don't think it's really possible to fuzzy the overhead/low option solely because of the fact that Flash's D12 is a double low. If it was low mid then by all means yes, you shouldn't have much of a problem blocking that. The fact that it's about the same amount of frames for the second hit to come out in the D12 and the F2, you really just have to guess. Another thing I'd like to add is that his 'meterless vortex' only works in the corner. If you're midscreen you can easily backdash after a non MB LK. And once you guess right in the corner it means you blocked a LK so I'm now -5 and I have to respect your next move. This is why I never use this option.

7) While I agree with most Flash's using a normal MB SP to cross up after 32, once again it all depends on what your opponents blocking pattern is. The second they block it, you can opt to do something different. In a tournament setting, Flash players will almost always go for the most reliable ways to open people up at the beginning of the set if the person you're playing against isn't someone you regularly play. But there's always time to adjust. And a side note is that I use MB SP in the corner to cross up a lot in tournament or casuals lol.

8) Dude noooooo. Absolutely not. If there is one character who doesn't give a shit when he's full screen, it's Flash. I can be sent full screen but IDGAF cause I'm back in your face with 2 dashes. If I'm playing AM and I'm full screen, one dash and I'm good to go. Against any zoning character I can block one projectile and get a free dash in and then I'm already within LC range so now they're scared of me so I can walk and play the neutral game.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Flash players DO NOT make enough use of RMS fullscreen. When I say this, I'm referring to characters that don't have a tracking projectile or a very quick projectile. So characters like AM, Nightwing (staff), Raven, Green Arrow, etc., never (or very rarely) use RMS fullscreen lol. But against characters like Hawgirl, Green Lantern, Zod, Bane, etc. Using RMS and cancelling it continuously causes your opponent to not know exactly when you want to come in and a lot of the time they will jump back when they see you run forward to try to stuff a LC but if you cancel it you can open them up using a delayed LC, Flying Uppercut, Dash in as they land, etc.

9) I think flash has some of the best wake up options in the game. You should really just feel out the player and see once again if there's a pattern they use. Do they wake up every time? Do they always use a certain move? If the Flash player tends to use Flying Uppercut or LC/ MB LC, just duck and punish. If he uses SP you can easily D2 him and full combo punish. If he uses LK then you can stuff it because it's not completely invincible but if you try to stuff it and fail then ggs cause I just got a 50% combo on you lol. If you have no idea what they're gonna wake up with or if they're gonna wake up at all, then the Flash player has done a good job of making himself hard to read so gg.
I agree with every single thing said here. Hopefully unaware flash players are taking notes on whats said here.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
Breh it would be just like Yugioh were you can't get a single game off me
i did beat you once in yugioh btw, and lets play then bitch get on devpro right now, if you're not there in 15 seconds from my post then that means your scured bitch.
 
Flash's wakeups are bad? No.

Being able to block and punish a wakeup, or do something to blow it up that can be countered by something else he can do on wakeup does not constitute that wakeup being bad.