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Question - Sektor More frame data questions!

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
@Eddy Wang thanks for your help but I have one more question. Can you explain to me the use of the cancel advantage on a move that launches? I'm testing stuff out with sektor and I'm testing out 114 cancel into db2 and 212 canceled into db2. On cancel (based in yiur formula)
Is that 114 is plus 67 on cancel and 212 is plus 33 on cancel. Does this somehow fall into the Oki category and how would you figure out how plus you are if you use it as a ended ij a combo to go into setups?
@dennycascade @Eddy Wang (you 2 are the only people I know who actually understand frame data a lot more than I do myself. Care to explain? @RM Cossner
And since the EX DB2 has a 21f startup and a -29 recovery, would I subtract those from the amount of plus frames in order to find how plus you are on Oki? And how could have you a - number as recovery frames? Thanks y'all!
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
And also, could this be used to calculate how plus a meaty Ferra toss is depending on the string ender ?
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
I don't think the "cancel advantage" data has anything to do with that actually. I think it's the frame window for you to input a special cancel or the next part of a string. That's why some strings that aren't special cancelable still have cancel advantage data, it's telling you how long you have to input the next part of the string.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
@Cooljaxx, the frame data on moves that launches don't tell you how plus you are for a oki, the plus frames of moves that launches the longer they are, it means you have more room for juggle conversions when you hitting someone with the both feet on the ground, if that string is special cancelable it means it can link with another special that could aid your character in the juggle filler.

If you're using as a juggle filler in order to get the same plus frames to try an oki game you're doing it wrong tho, launching strings are designed to launch, not for knockdown.

the more you hit a character air bone the more faster he is likely to fall, any plus move you hit them with while air bone will not mean anything unless is a restand or knockdown move, the plus frame displayed on the data doesn't apply while in that state.

Take scorpion for example, 214 is a launcher, but 214 alone doesn't do much because scorpion can't recover in time to do anything while the opponent is flying, however he has specials that will either capture or stall characters in the air helping him extend his combos with juggle fillers, hence why he uses 214~teleport, and 214~flame aura on corners, 214~minion grab, and 214~ex spear.

You should try with knockdown strings instead, which are strings designed with hard knockdown proprieties in mind or untechable knockdown, those in general are used for oki games because its plus frames starts on the knockdown.

KL 2,1 string is a hard knockdown that allows him to set any trap post use at any height, b321 its an untechable knockdown string, that is special cancelable allowing him to set any trap by canceling the knockdown hit with a trap in any direction.
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
@Cooljaxx, the frame data on moves that launches don't tell you how plus you are for a oki, the plus frames of moves that launches the longer they are, it means you have more room for juggle conversions when you hitting someone with the both feet on the ground, if that string is special cancelable it means it can link with another special that could aid your character in the juggle filler.

If you're using as a juggle filler in order to get the same plus frames to try an oki game you're doing it wrong tho, launching strings are designed to launch, not for knockdown.

the more you hit a character air bone the more faster he is likely to fall, any plus move you hit them with while air bone will not mean anything unless is a restand or knockdown move, the plus frame displayed on the data doesn't apply while in that state.

Take scorpion for example, 214 is a launcher, but 214 alone doesn't do much because scorpion can't recover in time to do anything while the opponent is flying, however he has specials that will either capture or stall characters in the air helping him extend his combos with juggle fillers, hence why he uses 214~teleport, and 214~flame aura on corners, 214~minion grab, and 214~ex spear.

You should try with knockdown strings instead, which are strings designed with hard knockdown proprieties in mind or untechable knockdown, those in general are used for oki games because its plus frames starts on the knockdown.

KL 2,1 string is a hard knockdown that allows him to set any trap post use at any height, b321 its an untechable knockdown string, that is special cancelable allowing him to set any trap by canceling the knockdown hit with a trap in any direction.
So in my case, I'm using 114 ex or regular db2 as an ender, should I be using a HKD instead? And if so what knockdown because 1112 sucks and the Onky HKD I can think of is NJK.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
@Cooljaxx, the frame data on moves that launches don't tell you how plus you are for a oki, the plus frames of moves that launches the longer they are, it means you have more room for juggle conversions when you hitting someone with the both feet on the ground, if that string is special cancelable it means it can link with another special that could aid your character in the juggle filler.

If you're using as a juggle filler in order to get the same plus frames to try an oki game you're doing it wrong tho, launching strings are designed to launch, not for knockdown.

the more you hit a character air bone the more faster he is likely to fall, any plus move you hit them with while air bone will not mean anything unless is a restand or knockdown move, the plus frame displayed on the data doesn't apply while in that state.

Take scorpion for example, 214 is a launcher, but 214 alone doesn't do much because scorpion can't recover in time to do anything while the opponent is flying, however he has specials that will either capture or stall characters in the air helping him extend his combos with juggle fillers, hence why he uses 214~teleport, and 214~flame aura on corners, 214~minion grab, and 214~ex spear.

You should try with knockdown strings instead, which are strings designed with hard knockdown proprieties in mind or untechable knockdown, those in general are used for oki games because its plus frames starts on the knockdown.

KL 2,1 string is a hard knockdown that allows him to set any trap post use at any height, b321 its an untechable knockdown string, that is special cancelable allowing him to set any trap by canceling the knockdown hit with a trap in any direction.
I tried explaining something similar in another thread and got told I didn't know what I was talking about
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
the more you hit a character air bone the more faster he is likely to fall, any plus move you hit them with while air bone will not mean anything unless is a restand or knockdown move, the plus frame displayed on the data doesn't apply while in that state

This part specifically
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Also worth noting that using a restand does not reset the gravity penalty for launcher/juggle.
if you launch them again after the restand they will still be falling faster if that makes any sense
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
the more you hit a character air bone the more faster he is likely to fall, any plus move you hit them with while air bone will not mean anything unless is a restand or knockdown move, the plus frame displayed on the data doesn't apply while in that state

This part specifically
Lol, who told you that?
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
So in my case, I'm using 114 ex or regular db2 as an ender, should I be using a HKD instead? And if so what knockdown because 1112 sucks and the Onky HKD I can think of is NJK.
I think the 21 1+3 or whatever the electric hands string is for sektor is a hkd but idk. I see it used a lot.
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
Oh shit you're right my bad. I see 212 used a lot thanks Boba
It isnt a hkd but when used on its own(as in not used mid combo) it breaks most armours including lao's iirc when cancelled into normal up rocket then into a button. However due to additional gravity in combos it doesn't retain that ability.