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MKXL Tier list????

For those who are still playing, post your tier list! This is mine:

17751

Between () best variation IMO.

S tier (JUST THE BEST): Liu Kang (Dragon fire). Not a lot to say, has every single tool you want: insane pressure, safe armor moves (ex dragon kick is op as fck), high damage, fck neutral insta air fireball... if you have the execution, best char in the game

A tier (FCKING GOOD CHARACTER): Little to non bad matchus. They excel in a particular area.
Mileena (Piercing), Tremor (Crystalline), Kenshi (Possesed), Kung Lao (Tempest and Buzzsaw), Leatherface (Killer).

B tier (COMPETITIVE): Great character, not A tier because of some bad matchups.
Sektor, Smoke, Shinnok (Imposter), Sonya (Demo), Subzero (Grandmaster), Scorpion (Inferno), Predator (Hish Qu Ten), Cassie (Hollywood), Ermac (Mystic), Jacqui (Fullauto), Kano (all 3), Kitana (Assassin, Royal Storm), Kotal Khan, Jason (Relentless), Reptile (Nimble), Takeda (all 3), Bo rai cho (Dragon breath).

C tier (JUST FOR FUN): Important weaknesses.
D'vorah (Swarm queen), Raider (displacer and thunder god), Kung Jin (no idea), Alien (all 3), Cybersub, Quan Chi (sorcerer), Cyrax, Jax (no idea), Tanya (Pyro and dragon naginata), Erron black (gunslinger), Goro (no idea), Ferra Thor (Ruthless?), Johnny Cage (A-List)
 
Liu kang is DEFINITELY not the best character in the game. I hope you didn’t base this on NK
Lao and Leatherface are too high
Kitana is too low. She was without a doubt top 5. Same with ermac
Post yours, I dont expect people agree 100% :) that's the point right?

Liu is S tier on his tools, he has everything. Who's the best in your opinion?

My list is based on my opinion + tournament results.
Having said that, Ermac is probably the only one in B tier that I never seen winning any competition. In theory he is solid, but the results are not there...
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
My list is based on my opinion + tournament results.
Lol that’s the problem right there. You’re basing a tier list on the wrong things. A tier list is based on MUs. You’re doing it based on popularity and success.
If we do it your way, kang still wouldn’t be the best because he wasn’t really doing much offline.
Based on MUs, it’s either Mileena or shinnok.
 
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ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
List is interesting, @santanabar. Some observations.
  • Specially after all these years of evolution of the game, I definitely agree on Liu being slightly above the other top tiers. Assuming the player has mastered him, he has possibly the best pressure in the game, the best zoning in the game and besides that he doesn't have anything that leaves him particularly exposed (like relying on a punishable 50/50, a heavy punishable special risk or something like that). Even if you forget about his cancels he has better mid stagger frames than many characters that are based on them and don't have the luxury of having what he has, so his toolkit in general is insultingly good and I'm sure he would have been nerfed if the patching had continued. The only downside this character has is the execution barrier. If you have it and play him, you have no right to complain about anything else in this game.
  • Some chars from B could perfectly promote to A. Shinnok is too low imo, at least 2 of his variations belong to A. Same with Jason. Hellfire is A tier without a doubt, but since you are not making a complete variation list I can see him globally in B. I wouldn't put Quan anywhere below B just because his sorcerer variation is borderline broken in the last patch meta.
  • Csz was very underrated, I would put him on B just because some broken matchups that he has where he completely nullifies slow recovery armors in the corner, so a correct "guess" on his htb loop is the only thing left as a way out.
  • Sun god Kotal became pretty good in the new meta. But overall I can agree with the character being in the middle considering all variations.
  • Kitana is so good in her three variations that I think she should be higher. D'Vorah and Raiden should be higher too imo.
  • Cage is bad, but not C bad.
 
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List is interesting, @santanabar. Some observations.
  • Specially after all these years of evolution of the game, I definitely agree on Liu being slightly above the other top tiers. Assuming the player has mastered him, he has possibly the best pressure in the game, the best zoning in the game and besides that he doesn't have anything that leaves him particularly exposed (like relying on a punishable 50/50, a heavy punishable special risk or something like that). Even if you forget about his cancels he has better mid stagger frames than many characters that are based on them and don't have the luxury of having what he has, so his toolkit in general is insultingly good and I'm sure he would have been nerfed if the patching had continued. The only downside this character has is the execution barrier. If you have it and play him, you have no right to complain about anything else in this game.
  • Some chars from B could perfectly promote to A. Shinnok is too low imo, at least 2 of his variations belong to A. Same with Jason. Hellfire is A tier without a doubt, but since you are not making a complete variation list I can see him globally in B. I wouldn't put Quan anywhere below B just because his sorcerer variation is borderline broken in the last patch meta.
  • Csz was very underrated, I would put him on B just because some broken matchups that he has where he completely nullifies slow recovery armors in the corner, so a correct "guess" on his htb loop is the only thing left as a way out.
  • Sun god Kotal became pretty good in the new meta. But overall I can agree with the character being in the middle considering all variations.
  • Kitana is so good in her three variations that I think she should be higher. D'Vorah and Raiden should be higher too imo.
  • Cage is bad, but not C bad.
Very good points.
My bad with Shinnok, you are totally right. A tier for sure.
Csz is my main, and even though I consider him better than Cyrax, his corner setup compared with GM sub, Quan Chi (maybe even hunter Predator) is clearly inferior IMO. That, plus his only armor move being super unsafe is what puts him in C tier.
Kitana is amazing and super strong, but doesn't have the cheap crazy bullsht A tiers have.
In theory, especially when you see the frame data, D'vorah and Raiden look strong. Problem is that results are not there IMO. I see amazing Raiden players lose all the time against inferior players. Don't play Raiden, so no idea why the character doesn't perform. Same w/Dvorah.
And Cage, TBH I can't think of a worse character (I mean best variation of any character).
 
Who said Kitana doesn't have crazy bullshit. I make a list for the fan variations here (The glaive variation I don't play much, feel free to ask more if you want)
  • Highest damage potential in the game. Even her meterless damage with no buff on, she does more damage that almost everyone, except Liu Kang in the corner. The fact that her 1 bar bnb does the same damage as Kotal's 1 bar Bnb WITH DAMAGE TOTEM ACTIVE says a lot
  • Very meter-independant while building meter very quickly. Kitana is the only character in MKX who spams a lot of x-ray in competitive scene, and many of them were successfully (Sonic Fox lol)
  • 6f d3. Not many characters have this luxury. She has some meterless plus frame, so it means she can do her own pressure. On top of this, she also has good stagger, long range advancing mid, and long range 8f d1.
  • By far the best walk speed (both forward and backward) in the game. People discover the wave dash tech and it works most effectively with Kitana's walk animation. Adding with her good normals mentioned above, she has very good footsie game.
  • Her zoning is insane and she can do 30%+ fullscreen combo if fan hits airborne opponents. She even outzones some characters with low or mid projectile (Kung Jin, Cybernetic Kano for example). Air fan has 8f startup....
  • Her DP is a godlike special move. It allows her to do pressure. It gives her a plus on block wakeup if she wants to spend 2 bars. It gives her a super annoying d1/d3 into special shenanigan, where risk reward is heavily in her favor.
  • She has a lot of armor moves and very meter independant so it's very hard to oki her
  • Her hitbox is tiny. Her jump in normals are very good, with the float it's practically impossible to anti air her without armor moves (ball roll is probably the only reliable anti air against Kitana, but sometimes Kitana can still blow it up). Since armor moves no longer launcher, it means she can dominate the air and play her own air game with almost everyone, while stopping everyone from jumping because her air control is SOOO good.
  • She has a safe overhead that does 9%. It isn't much but it means she can compete with many characters in the 50/50 department. She also has a low that leads to 42% damage with 1 bar midscreen. Plus the run up throw mind game. Blocking her is very hard sometimes.
Another note: Dragon Fire Liu Kang is the best character in the latest patch of MKXL imo
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Who said Kitana doesn't have crazy bullshit. I make a list for the fan variations here (The glaive variation I don't play much, feel free to ask more if you want)
  • Highest damage potential in the game. Even her meterless damage with no buff on, she does more damage that almost everyone, except Liu Kang in the corner. The fact that her 1 bar bnb does the same damage as Kotal's 1 bar Bnb WITH DAMAGE TOTEM ACTIVE says a lot
  • Very meter-independant while building meter very quickly. Kitana is the only character in MKX who spams a lot of x-ray in competitive scene, and many of them were successfully (Sonic Fox lol)
  • 6f d3. Not many characters have this luxury. She has some meterless plus frame, so it means she can do her own pressure. On top of this, she also has good stagger, long range advancing mid, and long range 8f d1.
  • By far the best walk speed (both forward and backward) in the game. People discover the wave dash tech and it works most effectively with Kitana's walk animation. Adding with her good normals mentioned above, she has very good footsie game.
  • Her zoning is insane and she can do 30%+ fullscreen combo if fan hits airborne opponents. She even outzones some characters with low or mid projectile (Kung Jin, Cybernetic Kano for example). Air fan has 8f startup....
  • Her DP is a godlike special move. It allows her to do pressure. It gives her a plus on block wakeup if she wants to spend 2 bars. It gives her a super annoying d1/d3 into special shenanigan, where risk reward is heavily in her favor.
  • She has a lot of armor moves and very meter independant so it's very hard to oki her
  • Her hitbox is tiny. Her jump in normals are very good, with the float it's practically impossible to anti air her without armor moves (ball roll is probably the only reliable anti air against Kitana, but sometimes Kitana can still blow it up). Since armor moves no longer launcher, it means she can dominate the air and play her own air game with almost everyone, while stopping everyone from jumping because her air control is SOOO good.
  • She has a safe overhead that does 9%. It isn't much but it means she can compete with many characters in the 50/50 department. She also has a low that leads to 42% damage with 1 bar midscreen. Plus the run up throw mind game. Blocking her is very hard sometimes.
Another note: Dragon Fire Liu Kang is the best character in the latest patch of MKXL imo
Shhhhh they not ready for this conversation yet
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
but doesn't have the cheap crazy bullsht A tiers have.
What cheap stuff does Kenshi have? The only thing crazy he has is that armored slice in possessed, which is only available in one variation. And even then, if you read it, you can blow it up.
And Kung Lao? What crazy shit does he have? Same with leatherface

I can agree with tremor and Mileena based on your logic but those other characters don’t need to be there at all.
 
Who said Kitana doesn't have crazy bullshit. I make a list for the fan variations here (The glaive variation I don't play much, feel free to ask more if you want)
  • Highest damage potential in the game. Even her meterless damage with no buff on, she does more damage that almost everyone, except Liu Kang in the corner. The fact that her 1 bar bnb does the same damage as Kotal's 1 bar Bnb WITH DAMAGE TOTEM ACTIVE says a lot
  • Very meter-independant while building meter very quickly. Kitana is the only character in MKX who spams a lot of x-ray in competitive scene, and many of them were successfully (Sonic Fox lol)
  • 6f d3. Not many characters have this luxury. She has some meterless plus frame, so it means she can do her own pressure. On top of this, she also has good stagger, long range advancing mid, and long range 8f d1.
  • By far the best walk speed (both forward and backward) in the game. People discover the wave dash tech and it works most effectively with Kitana's walk animation. Adding with her good normals mentioned above, she has very good footsie game.
  • Her zoning is insane and she can do 30%+ fullscreen combo if fan hits airborne opponents. She even outzones some characters with low or mid projectile (Kung Jin, Cybernetic Kano for example). Air fan has 8f startup....
  • Her DP is a godlike special move. It allows her to do pressure. It gives her a plus on block wakeup if she wants to spend 2 bars. It gives her a super annoying d1/d3 into special shenanigan, where risk reward is heavily in her favor.
  • She has a lot of armor moves and very meter independant so it's very hard to oki her
  • Her hitbox is tiny. Her jump in normals are very good, with the float it's practically impossible to anti air her without armor moves (ball roll is probably the only reliable anti air against Kitana, but sometimes Kitana can still blow it up). Since armor moves no longer launcher, it means she can dominate the air and play her own air game with almost everyone, while stopping everyone from jumping because her air control is SOOO good.
  • She has a safe overhead that does 9%. It isn't much but it means she can compete with many characters in the 50/50 department. She also has a low that leads to 42% damage with 1 bar midscreen. Plus the run up throw mind game. Blocking her is very hard sometimes.
Another note: Dragon Fire Liu Kang is the best character in the latest patch of MKXL imo
And in Mortal Kombat 11

  • Kitana moves slower than my pet turtle
  • Has primary normals my 90 year old grandfather can react to
  • Gets out-zoned by Baraka
:(
 
What cheap stuff does Kenshi have? The only thing crazy he has is that armored slice in possessed, which is only available in one variation. And even then, if you read it, you can blow it up.
And Kung Lao? What crazy shit does he have? Same with leatherface

I can agree with tremor and Mileena based on your logic but those other characters don’t need to be there at all.
For both, pretty safe teleports that basically let them dominate the pace of the game.