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MKX AntiAirs: Which characters cannot Anti Air in Mkx

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
You're put in b1 range at slightly minus (like -2?). Yes, you can armour out, but essentially you're out in Cassie's footsie range and you've wasted a bar of stamina.
That's not so bad. B1 range is only a few short steps from Goro f3 range, if I armor out once then it might make them hesitate, then i step back and kick her in the ribs.

It's certainly not ideal, but it's better than just letting everyone in my grill for free
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Yes, I can go along with this. There is almost no way of maintaining your distance in MKX unless you have a very strong poke, like a Kotal D4 (or Predator D4, Johnny Cage D4). With the run mechanic and extreme footsie strings like Cassie, D'Vorrah, etc., there is almost no way to sit back and play defense. If you try to play defense, they will almost always get back in and mess you up with 50/50's, throws or pressure. It makes it very difficult to maintain any sort of range to set up an AA. Also, I'm not sure why they slowed down the poking game in MKX, but there seems to be a lot more characters with 7-8 frame pokes instead of the 6-7 frames of MK9 and Injustice. I still think SFIV had better priority on AA's, but there are definitely some spacing factors at play.
Playing as MoS Raiden I notice this the most. I try to be careful and pick my pokes looking for an opening to get started but characters like KL or Scorpion might just come in and get started doing whatever it is they do. Doesn't help that Raiden's backdash doesn't dodge a whole lot of things. How offensive and defensive play is so uneven probably makes AAing seem much harder. Some things have to be done on a read instead of reaction and you're looking at half the usual damage, sometimes less, depending on who you're using. But if you mess up you're eating 30% BnB and/or whatever pressure coming your way.
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
how is it possible to anti air laos ji2 and kotal/sonyas jump in punches with standing 1's range :eek:
To be fair jump ins are harder. Those characters u named are nearly impossible to do on frontal jump ins.

Cross ups are normally a 100% thing if you have the reactions. I'm super consistent offline but online is a whole other beast.

Maybe I'll make a video on it.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
@G4S J360 here



I'm too lazy to go over more strings and jump ins right now but you get the idea. I cant even block on time cause of the backdash recovery lol.
 
@G4S J360 here



I'm too lazy to go over more strings and jump ins right now but you get the idea. I cant even block on time cause of the backdash recovery lol.
God this is annoying just watching this because 90% of people play online like this.

Maybe we did get used to easy anti airs in mk9 but that doesn't make the jumping in this game any less ridiculous.

Some of the jumping 1s in this game would make dhalsim jealous.

Sheesh.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Now that's what you get trying to backdash an advancing string... Just wait until the gap and backdash the f2 maybe, what do you want, a fullscreen invincible backdash??

You need to backdash a crossup completely different... Release block when you see them jump and backdash when your character turned around. Works every time.

Watching those videos makes me laugh so damn hard, and I'm just an average player myself... Lol, tym...
Lol chill bitch.
 
A friend and I were testing Kotal Khan's crossover punches against Ninjutsu Scorpion. s1, nJP, d1 - all get beaten cleanly. d4 was used to low profile but even that would whiff at times. Any ideas?
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
Someone said Erron can't AA and then deleted their post. I used to think so too but the more I play the more I find his 1 and d1 are totally suitable if your spacing is good. Also his uppercut is pretty good, I've been using that as my reaction AA since launch.

Depends on who you're playing though. Some characters just have godly jump ins. I find it difficult to consistently AA Kotal, D'Vorah, KJ, etc.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading.
Honestly I lose faith in the TYM community on a daily basis. Raiden doesn't even need to anti air with f1 because he can usually run under and trip guard with 214 but for some reason everyone wants to do f1 b14 superman or something around those lines. I'd use a shocker/EXdb2 any day instead of f1, most air normals or jump kicks beat or trade with f1 unless your timing is perfect from my experience.
 

Enexemander

A Hitbox Pirate - YARRR -
Honestly I lose faith in the TYM community on a daily basis. Raiden doesn't even need to anti air with f1 because he can usually run under and trip guard with 214 but for some reason everyone wants to do f1 b14 superman or something around those lines. I'd use a shocker/EXdb2 any day instead of f1, most air normals or jump kicks beat or trade with f1 unless your timing is perfect from my experience.
Raiden has some of the best anti-air options in the game, from what I've tested. I actually got really salty a week or so before this thread because people were playing the Mexican Jumping Bean game against me online, and it was totally working (so why would they stop?). So after getting salty, I went to the lab and set the AI to do jump ins.

My main is Liu, so I tried him out first. His D2 is Godlike. You just have to be aware of where the hitbox is versus where your hurtbox is. Catch them at the right distance in the right place, and you'll D2 them clean EVERY TIME. Then I moved on to other characters. Kano is my secondary (quickly becoming my main. I love that dirty motherfucker) and I found the same to be true with Kano, it's just that his hitbox on the D2 is in a slightly different place. This is true for the ENTIRE CAST.

BUT- some D2s have slow start up, making D2 on reaction hard to do (more so in online, my only real option on PC). Next up was Raiden. His D2 is slow, and the hitbox is more vertical than either Liu or Kano's. It's not great for jump-ins. It works, but the timing is more strict. You know what it's great for, though? Cross overs. It's FANTASTIC for crossovers. The vertical hitbox means autocorrect doesn't fuck you most of the time. Seriously. Try it.

Then I moved on to Raiden's other options. Standing 1 works at basically the same ranges and timings that Liu and Kano's D2 work at. Bonus is that B1 is also good at the same range, so it's harder to screw yourself with input error if you're backing up for spacing. Plus standing 1 starts a combo string that you can start your air juggle. Nice, eh? Raiden has 2 non-ex special moves that specifically target air, you just have to time them right so they don't trade. If you don't feel like risking it, then just back up and superman them on trip guard. This works better than Kano ball, even though the moves seem similar at first glace. I think the hurtbox for Raiden in his superman is smaller? Also, I know you don't like the NJP for anti-air in the discussion, but it's SO GOOD and you can totally do it on reaction with plenty of wiggle room.

Anyway, my point is this: I'm not a great player. I come to TYM to learn how to be decent and I'm working on it. (shout out to @Derptile and @countrypistol for their amazing guides) I didn't play MK9 or Injustice, so I'm not conditioned to Godlike anti-air options all the time, every time. All I am is a mediocre player that jumped in the lab for an hour to figure out my options, and I brush up in practice. There are options all over the place, and they're all really good ones. Just go find them. I promise you that they're there.

My reward for this is to play Liu Kang and spam low fireballs to bait the jump ins, and then D2ing them over and over. I've had several rage quits from doing this. *shit eating grin*

[edit] Also, just to add from going into the lab right now:

Kano has instant air kano balls. (Like Liu's iafb). If you want an "I WIN" button for anti-air, well that's it. Go ahead and practice it. It pretty much wins all anti-air battles out right at close distances, and all but the latest timings. (Like, don't Kano ball into their already outstretched foot). Just looking at all of Kano's anti-air options- great D2, Air Kano Balls (including instant), armored up ball, armored regular ball (canceled into combo), supreme forward & back dashes.

I imagine against a good Kano player that's put lab time into anti-airing, that basically you would only jump in on them as a sign of disrespect. When Kano is on point, he'll blow up your air attack every time and the only question is if he wants to spend a bar to make you eat a juggle combo for it.
 
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Raiden has some of the best anti-air options in the game, from what I've tested. I actually got really salty a week or so before this thread because people were playing the Mexican Jumping Bean game against me online, and it was totally working (so why would they stop?). So after getting salty, I went to the lab and set the AI to do jump ins.

My main is Liu, so I tried him out first. His D2 is Godlike. You just have to be aware of where the hitbox is versus where your hurtbox is. Catch them at the right distance in the right place, and you'll D2 them clean EVERY TIME. Then I moved on to other characters. Kano is my secondary (quickly becoming my main. I love that dirty motherfucker) and I found the same to be true with Kano, it's just that his hitbox on the D2 is in a slightly different place. This is true for the ENTIRE CAST.

BUT- some D2s have slow start up, making D2 on reaction hard to do (more so in online, my only real option on PC). Next up was Raiden. His D2 is slow, and the hitbox is more vertical than either Liu or Kano's. It's not great for jump-ins. It works, but the timing is more strict. You know what it's great for, though? Cross overs. It's FANTASTIC for crossovers. The vertical hitbox means autocorrect doesn't fuck you most of the time. Seriously. Try it.

Then I moved on to Raiden's other options. Standing 1 works at basically the same ranges and timings that Liu and Kano's D2 work at. Bonus is that B1 is also good at the same range, so it's harder to screw yourself with input error if you're backing up for spacing. Plus standing 1 starts a combo string that you can start your air juggle. Nice, eh? Raiden has 2 non-ex special moves that specifically target air, you just have to time them right so they don't trade. If you don't feel like risking it, then just back up and superman them on trip guard. This works better than Kano ball, even though the moves seem similar at first glace. I think the hurtbox for Raiden in his superman is smaller? Also, I know you don't like the NJP for anti-air in the discussion, but it's SO GOOD and you can totally do it on reaction with plenty of wiggle room.

Anyway, my point is this: I'm not a great player. I come to TYM to learn how to be decent and I'm working on it. (shout out to @Derptile and @countrypistol for their amazing guides) I didn't play MK9 or Injustice, so I'm not conditioned to Godlike anti-air options all the time, every time. All I am is a mediocre player that jumped in the lab for an hour to figure out my options, and I brush up in practice. There are options all over the place, and they're all really good ones. Just go find them. I promise you that they're there.

My reward for this is to play Liu Kang and spam low fireballs to bait the jump ins, and then D2ing them over and over. I've had several rage quits from doing this. *shit eating grin*

[edit] Also, just to add from going into the lab right now:

Kano has instant air kano balls. (Like Liu's iafb). If you want an "I WIN" button for anti-air, well that's it. Go ahead and practice it. It pretty much wins all anti-air battles out right at close distances, and all but the latest timings. (Like, don't Kano ball into their already outstretched foot). Just looking at all of Kano's anti-air options- great D2, Air Kano Balls (including instant), armored up ball, armored regular ball (canceled into combo), supreme forward & back dashes.

I imagine against a good Kano player that's put lab time into anti-airing, that basically you would only jump in on them as a sign of disrespect. When Kano is on point, he'll blow up your air attack every time and the only question is if he wants to spend a bar to make you eat a juggle combo for it.
Thanks! I'll be updating mine this week with info on using frame data to create pressure strings and frame traps. Hope it helps!
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Leatherface's AA's are pretty meh. DB4 is clearly supposed to be able to be used as an AA but it's too slow. Only thing that is generally consistent is B2. It can catch em out of the sky decently but with minimal reward for doing so (he can AA but he doesn't get as much as other characters in this game, hence me not saying it's terrible but it's only ok ish, B2 has to be pressed at awkward times to catch jump ins) and he gets cross upped for free really except for maybe the use of chain sparks.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Leatherface's AA's are pretty meh. DB4 is clearly supposed to be able to be used as an AA but it's too slow. Only thing that is generally consistent is B2. It can catch em out of the sky decently but with minimal reward for doing so (he can AA but he doesn't get as much as other characters in this game, hence me not saying it's terrible but it's only ok ish, B2 has to be pressed at awkward times to catch jump ins) and he gets cross upped for free really except for maybe the use of chain sparks.
What about his 7f uppercut?
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Subs J1 is bullshit but mainly what it does on cross ups. It's magnetized to the very top of their head or something, most characters shouldn't even challenge it at all.
 

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
I cannot anti air Sub Zero at all with Mileena....Roll gets stuffed and upercut gets a trade at best....
Try d4 to low profile it. Or on cross over d1 has a massive hitbox. And when times correctly, roll will beat his jump ins. Just go in and lab it and you'll get it. The only thing that consistently beats out roll for me is KJ, but he's got arguably the best air normals in the game. Even a trade with roll is usually able to be converted off of.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I'd say Reo covers this topic very well in this thread:
He talks about how many characters have obsurd JIP's and how many can not handel them, even though some do have unique good ones that have disjointed hitboxes like Mileena's Roll, or Ermacs D4.

But it is a real problem. and we should be asking What characters jump in's need toned down, and what characters need there own well designed unique ones that work at a high level consistantly.

and another issue is: Characters like Kung Jin and many others can forward jip instant JIP and they are Plus on block. so they can Abuse it all day and you have no time to react and nothing to say about it. and they are jailing into 50/50's after. it creates too much of a mind game with are they gonna Dive kick, poke or simply jail you into more pressure. and we have nothing for it: should these be Plus on block or should a universal mechanic be added so that Instant jip's are negative on block on the way up but crossovers are positive on block?

what do you think, reguardless i feel you should check out the many videos @YOMI REO explains here:




Is Jumping too Good? Anti-Airs + Jumps
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Jacqui's JI1 or JI2 hits you when she is behind you. lol :confused::eek::mad:
Jacquis JIP is not broke though and it is by no means hard to AA. but many chyaracters like Mileena JIP1, Sub Zero JIP1/JIK4 or Alien JIP2 or Kotal JIP1 are very hard to stop. then we have to factor characters that have ameta of thiere own in the air, will they JIK/JIP/Divekick/Teleport (Sonya, Kung Jin, Raiden, Kano, Tanya, Alien, Kung Lao ) or Kitana Boost in air longer to delay it and wiff that punish? all this should be factored.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I love this thread, whats funny is that absolutely no one, and i mean no one tries to back dash. Its guaranteed no matter how shit your back dash is, to escape any jump over. It's a universal way to escape most advantageous jump situations.
I do. But I notice the same thing.

I started doing it by accident. It was a visual cue because I was maining Tremor at the start, and his "backdash" is him rolling the hell out of harm's way. I thought of it more like Kratos's roll evade; or if you play Destiny, the Shadowstep you can do with the Hunter. I wasn't even thinking of it in actual combative terms, more like just another move to add to the list. But there are way too many people I've played against who don't utilize it at all.

@Rude makes a point that leads to another: there are way too many people still trying to play MKX like it's MK9 or any other conventional fighter. It isn't. I'm guilty of this as well and it took a long time to snap out of my bad habits.

A fight isn't sparked with the intent to adapt to you; it's your responsibility as a Kombatant to adapt to the fight accordingly. Fuck, this game has been live for 17 months, and it still hasn't fully fleshed itself out yet, nor is it done evolving or being changed. It's not as cut and paste simplistic as MK9 was, and for good reason. There's a fine line between "it's just a game" and "this is something I want to excel at," be it competitively or online or whatever. And if you're on the latter side of that, this game can drive you batshit crazy if you let it.