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Match-up Discussion MK2 Raiden VS Sub Zero

MKB

Resurrected Gatekeeper
Forum General
VS


Rules of this discussion:
  • You may contribute anything that will further the interest and understanding of the matchup. This includes strategies, videos, combos, etc.
  • Feel free to answer the default questions posed in the first reply, though you are not required to do so.
  • Please keep the discussion focused on the two characters in question.
 

MKB

Resurrected Gatekeeper
Forum General
The typical Sub Zero turtler is not going to like this matchup very much. Raiden can hound the opponent like flies on horse manure. His ability to get in and out of danger makes him an obvious favorite here; somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-3, maybe even 8-2.

Sub Zero's strength is forcing an opponent to come to him because of his great anti-air defense. Unfortunately, Raiden can simply teleport to not only close the distance but put Sub Zero in a worse position. It goes without saying that Raiden's CQC game is deadly with his jab pressure in shock grab combos leading to 50%+ damage. Sub Zero must be able to anticipate Raiden's teleports and be ready with one of his specials once he rematerializes. His aaRH is critical in warding off the typical JK to superman combo.
  • What is Raiden's best bet for success?
  • Likewise for Subby?
  • How often should Raiden go into the air in this match?
 

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
I think we'd need to see MIKECALDWELL 's Sub-Zero vs btbb99 or Jester's Raiden to get a good idea of how this matchup plays out at the highest level. These are two of my more underdeveloped fighters, but I still understand what needs to happen.

RAIDEN
His jabs will rip apart Sub-Zero... if you can get close to Subz. Shouldn't be too hard with Raiden's teleport. Don't jump too often. And when you're in close, try to avoid jumping backwards, as you might land in a freeze. Instead do jump-around kicks, because Sub-Zero likes to ground freeze when opponents are in close. If you can do the jump-around precisely, you can follow it up with a superman.

SUB-ZERO
As usual, Sub-Zero wants to stay far away. Slide, but not too much- Raiden can block and shock grab for a nasty combo. If you time it right, you can block the superman and freeze Raiden. You can also block it and jump kick him. Anticipate Raiden's teleports with uppercuts. Use the roundhouse to anti-air anytime Raiden tries to jump in at you.

I'd guess this is a 7-3 match for Raiden. But maybe the best Sub-Zeros have a winning strategy vs tough Raidens?
Raiden is great vs every fighter in MK2, but he is also beatable with every fighter, if you figure out the right strategy.
 

Sub0's-Icy-Balls

Frozen Death (ANTI-TIERIST)
sadly... yes, he just cant compete. I really do think Raiden is a tie for 4th (with Shang and Kitana) as far as top tier goes.
 

MKB

Resurrected Gatekeeper
Forum General
sadly... yes, he just cant compete. I really do think Raiden is a tie for 4th (with Shang and Kitana) as far as top tier goes.
You should check out btbb99 and his Sub-Zero (I'm sure you have.) Back when he played online regularly, he and I used to play Raiden/Sub a lot and he was able to get quite a few victories on me despite the bad matchup. Of course I probably wasn't playing Raiden to his optimal potential, but Sub can make things happen in the right hands.

I don't think Raiden is anywhere near 4th just because the people above him (Shang, Kitana, Lao) all have ways to deal with and punish Raiden for his teleports and supermans. Lao's spin is a perfect counter to Raiden for everything except his bolt toss. Shang and Kit, well, you already know.
 

NickDaGreek1983

Oh, my days !
Just out of curiosity, I think I saw somewhere that Mileena, Kang and Baraka are concidered to be MK2 high tier characters... Is this true? Or is it Shang, Kitana and Lao the undisputed top-3 ?
 

MKB

Resurrected Gatekeeper
Forum General
Just out of curiosity, I think I saw somewhere that Mileena, Kang and Baraka are concidered to be MK2 high tier characters... Is this true? Or is it Shang, Kitana and Lao the undisputed top-3 ?
MK2 Tiers

Top - Kang, Mileena, Jax
Mid - Lao, Kitana, Shang, Raiden, Scorpion
Low - Cage, Baraka, Sub, Reptile
 

MKB

Resurrected Gatekeeper
Forum General
How were you able to play og without lag??
This was back when I lived in Pittsburgh and btbb and I were only about 5 hours away from each other.

BTW everyone, for future reference, if you are ever quoting a post that contains videos or large images, please remove them from the post before quoting as it will take up more bandwidth and make things longer than necessary. I bring this up because a new set of forum rules is about to be posted and I will have to start infracting for all this stuff. Just looking out for you guys :)
 

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
sadly... yes, he just cant compete. I really do think Raiden is a tie for 4th (with Shang and Kitana) as far as top tier goes.
I used to think that a few years back... you might remember I started a thread on that other MK2 site giving reasons why I thought Raiden was #4 on the tier. But after playing a lot more, I know that's not the case. Kitana Lao and Shang are all a little better overall, but Raiden is in the mix with them.

Sub-Zero can certainly compete with Raiden. He's at a disadvantage, but that match is not as hard for Sub as fighting top tier is.
Vs Raiden, Sub-Zero can actually be aggressive. Raiden has a very jab-able body, and I am often able to pressure Raiden with all the ninjas.
 

mortal_jason

Kitana's Bodyguard
This was back when I lived in Pittsburgh and btbb and I were only about 5 hours away from each other.

BTW everyone, for future reference, if you are ever quoting a post that contains videos or large images, please remove them from the post before quoting as it will take up more bandwidth and make things longer than necessary. I bring this up because a new set of forum rules is about to be posted and I will have to start infracting for all this stuff. Just looking out for you guys :)
You should move back there LOL!

yeah I tried but failed...you fixed it for me though :)