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Mileena's D4

and you dont think this is somewhat unfair??... its not like she needs it
She has slow normals, a mix up game that is easily fuzzy guarded, and all of her specials are unsafe.

To elaborate a bit, you can interrupt U4, B3/B3B4 don't leave you with a good advantage, B3 En Roll is unsafe and requires you to be right beside your opponent and you risk spending a meter. Her specials are self explanatory.

The fact that she is a bit less punishable than the cast is just one of her perks.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Yes, lets remove every defensive option from the game and turn MK into even more of a jump fest. The fact is there ARE answers to Mileena's D4 people just don't like them because they don't net as much damage/opportunities as the auto pilot j.p block string's people practice. If you stuff Mileena with a jump kick a few time's I guarantee you will condition her to block rather than lower her hit box.

Footsies and defensive options are fine, stop trying to make this game less deep than it already is.
 

leek

Noob
Yes, lets remove every defensive option from the game and turn MK into even more of a jump fest. The fact is there ARE answers to Mileena's D4 people just don't like them because they don't net as much damage/opportunities as the auto pilot j.p block string's people practice. If you stuff Mileena with a jump kick a few time's I guarantee you will condition her to block rather than lower her hit box.

Footsies and defensive options are fine, stop trying to make this game less deep than it already is.
This.

If you can't deal with one specific move that is just a little bit harder to punish or act upon then shame on you for trying to ruin something that makes a character different from the rest. Big deal if scrubs can abuse it online, it's not like you'll be seeing anyone win a tournament only using D+4.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
@XXZ

Look as for me personally its not a big issue. The idea of this topic was to talk - not to bitch about it. I pin pointed some of the stuff that isnt usual.
So please, either you bring something related to the subject or suck it up and beat it.

@BoysBoysBoys

KL can spin everything.

And regarding her D4 its a matter of point of view. There always will be people who will agree and disagree.
And about the D4 - like somebody said on latest STBL shows" If the Mileena player would see that D4 with Sub-Zero they would start to cry - its not fair while defending it!"

@Tom
Look i understand that and i know what you have in mind. Unlike you I stopped playing MK on MKT. I do still play the classics i do play SF. I have the general idea i really do, but i truly hope you are wrong on this one and some of that nasty stuff will get fixed someday.
Tom - regarding the unique abilities i agree with you 100%. But D4 is a poke visually looks just like any other D4 and should have similar usage. Of course there are small differences (like Ryu and Guile pokes) but in her case...well it seems just bit "wrong"
Simple example - what a poor NW can do with that D4 that goes underneath the arrow, shoulder and X-Ray that will whiff while Mileena is giving NW a middle finger. Just like with Cage and his X-ray.
 
And regarding her D4 its a matter of point of view. There always will be people who will agree and disagree.
And about the D4 - like somebody said on latest STBL shows" If the Mileena player would see that D4 with Sub-Zero they would start to cry - its not fair while defending it!"
Different character different tools. If Mileena didn't have D4 she would have a limited mid screen game. At that part of the screen iaSai starts to become unsafe depending on who you're playing against, and again, her other normals are too slow to be considered a big threat unless she is up close. She would have to dash into something, but then what? Use her 42 string which has no mix up? B3 and U4 are far too slow to just dash up, throw out a low poke, and then go throw them out.

Of course she can also try back dashing, but that just means the opponent can forward dash because she won't be throwing iaSais.
 

Somberness

Lights
I am fine with discussing it, but not with erroneous observations. Also, the amount of nerf threads is getting out of control and there is already general discussion threads in every forum. I'm not going to be a judge of what deserves a new thread, just pointing it out.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
the reason i say it is because soo much of the game is based on jumping in and taking that out is a pretty big part of someones offense
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
the reason i say it is because soo much of the game is based on jumping in and taking that out is a pretty big part of someones offense
so is certain characters bnb's in various fighters but certain characters like brady said have lower hitboxs and cause certain combos not to work on them. Example: Amaterasu from mvc3, servbot mvc2, lambda 11's from bb, etc

cant u just jump in kick mileena's d+4
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
@[VSM] Hitoshura

The D4 can be kicked i usually fallow it with AGB. The problem is its priority and percentage of attacks it can interrupt.

@BoysBoysBoys
Some how Reo was able to use all her tools and get to very end. And to be honest i havent seen many D4 in his game (but maybe it was cause he was going against Lao)

@XXZ

I appreciate the concern. I didnt find a topic related so i opened it. The idea is to talk about it and share thoughts. I dont demand changes from NRS, they will do what they see fit. The game is only going to get better.
Sidenote:

The huge difference between her D4 and Kung Lao Spin (that is ultimate AA) is that if you can read your opponent you can bait it. With this poke - there is no penalty or even if it is its hard to perform as it has fast recovery and she can poke like there is no tomorrow.
For some its easier for some its harder.
 
Up close he uses D3, which in my opinion is better than her D1 in some cases because again, her hit box shrinks and she backs up a bit. And generally D3 is faster than D4. It's a bit of an underrated poke of hers.

And there was a lot of unsafe/match up knowledge stuff that was used at Evo, and not enough maximum punishers. I re watched Reo vs JOP to jog my memory a bit, and he was punishing teleport with an uppercut, getting hit by the second hit of en teleport a couple of times, not punishing it with a D1 into special, etc. He tried to punish her Roll with a 111 string but he whiffed. Whether he didn't know what string to use, or if he couldn't remember in the moment I don't know.

Though if you're getting away with stuff, no reason to stop doing it. :)

But that doesn't have much to do with her D4.
 

Somberness

Lights
offtopic but xxz

sig? referring to..
Baraka's Spin.

MoonSpell, you are already at a disadvantage if it is blocked so there's already a penalty. I'm not sure why you keep trying to single her d4 out, Sub-Zero's d4 is 4 frames faster than hers and he actually can link a useful special off of it.

I think Mileena will only get easier for people to beat once people learn how to block low and punish her specials.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
You know what, am glad you brought it in. Look at D3. They are alike and serve similar purpose, look at d1 - same thing.
But somehow hers D4 is doing a lot more then the D4 of the rest of the crew. Some things that happen just annoy the shit of people.

Unlike the d1 that seems to work as AA is available to i guess every character, though to use it its risky and ticky. Mileena also has that great MKII roll that works as AA. So its not like she is helpless. Not mention the other crappy shit she dose with that D4.

Another example - We all know that J. Cage relies on pressure with his great pokes. Guess what there is nothing easier just poke the shit out of him with that mighty D4. I saw that one day ago. Almost helpless, unless there is a way around.

@XXZ
Well its funny but the fact that Sub has a faster d4 dosent mean its worse. You are missing the point.
D4 dose a lot more.Its not the problem with blocking lows or the D4 - but the fact the she interrupts many attacks. I listed some of them, others did as well.
 
threads like these bug me, if you compiled them all and nrs actually listened to these complaints, we'd be left with a cast with a moveset as deep as dlc base male....
 

Abudabi

Noob
well bottom line that we need stop holding a double standard on the characters we use and the characters we play against, and view in terms of overall game balance.
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
No, it's ridiculous that a character has that low of a hitbox when doing a simple down 4 which essentially allows her to avoid everything besides a jump in kick.

Am I used to it? Of course, but people in Somalia get used to starving also, doesn't mean they should have to.

Because of this Mileena also knows exactly what her opponent is going to do in order to avoid her d4 which in return gives her a sort of pseudo Yomi that increases her reads solely around that fact. I'm not condoning any other bullshit traits that any character has in this game so I don't want to hear people relating this to any other move in the game, this is solely about Mileena's d4.

The hitbox needs to be enlarged when she does this move. It's outrageous how low it is.

Also if a simple d4 move is vital to this character, then NRS did something wrong while designing her because no single move should be that utterly important. (It's not.)
 

Furb

Noob
How do I see it? When Mileena plays against characters she can zone, she just throw her sais, and TP on reaction (good players will never let bait themselve easliy). When she fight characters that are good in close combat (JC)... she just do a stupid d+4, and you cant jup to her, JP her, JK is quite hard and very buggy here. Many specials will whiff. So Johhny will get zone'd again. When she fight characters with Teleport or Raiden... she just do d+4 and there is no way to get close to her. Beacasue of advantage, and forcing opponent to block, she just gets a free bars for breaker. This is madness when you just can't crossup your opponent "just beacause". That she have a good AA that gives her juggles for ~30%, good projectiles, good teleport with advantage, good OH and low starter is not enough. Just don't let any character go to close combat against her... I just don't understand why REO didn't won EVO with such an awsome tool! This is first thing to nerf in next patch. Don't throw it away! Keep this range as it is now. Just make a normal hitbox, so you can crossup her and teach her to not abuse it in a silly way.

I will make some videos that are going show how stupid this move is. I see that many players don't see a problem here which is very odd.
 
I don't think Mileena players would drastically care if her hit box is made bigger. If anything, considering Sheevas my main who can't even do her main BnB against her I would love for it to be bigger too. It's just the other points the OP had that didn't really make sense.

Also if a simple d4 move is vital to this character, then NRS did something wrong while designing her because no single move should be that utterly important. (It's not.)
Kitana's D1 is a big part of her game. Low pokes altogether a massive part of this game. If Mileena, who is primarily a zoner needs to use a poke to keep her opponent from advancing, while doing 3%/building meter, it is a decent part of her game.

Random tidbit, but something I learned yesterday is that it only takes 12 low pokes, and from there 11 to build a full bar of meter. This includes D4.
 

Furb

Noob
The main problem here is that, you can fight almost every "d-move" in this game. Almost... Mileena's and Sonya's d+4 is just a funny joke.
 

Sasuga

Noob
I usethe D4 a lot and I sometime feel bad about it. It is a good move but it's not like there's no way around it. It's part of her game. She doesn't have the great of a moveset.

That she have a good AA that gives her juggles for ~30%, good projectiles, good teleport with advantage, good OH and low starter is not enough. Just don't let any character go to close combat against her... I just don't understand why REO didn't won EVO with such an awsome tool!
AA: you mean teleport kick, roll or...?
Projectile: not that good.
Teleport: super punishable.
Good overhead: Slightly over average.
Low starter: not usefull as hitconfirm; unsafe if followed up by the roll on blocking opponent.

Her mixups can be fuzzy guarded with not that much effort, unlike scorpion's for example. Reo could have spammed D4 vs Kun Lao in finals but D4 gets punished hard by a spin.
 

JakubDi

Noob
Sonya and Baraka have both similar d+4, however, apart from that they are generally worse than Mileena.

The main problem with this d+4 is that it limits options of many characters a lot. Sure you can jump over it but if Mileena hits you with d+4 you can't jump forward because another d+4 will work as AA here. Blocked d+4? I've heard that Kung Lao can spin her on block but even if it's true most characters can do nothing there because of the range. Some characters can backdash and punish Mileena (Kabal - rush/overhead, Reptile - dash, Ermac - lift etc.) but that's not even close to the majority of the cast. How can Johnny Cage and Nightwolf get close to Mileena? JC can only use EX b,f+4 but if it's blocked he eats u+4 or roll (punishment depends on the range). As for countering Johnny's XR, it's range-dependent. d+4 from max/far range (sometimes mid) has some of the projectile properties and it hits him as though it wasn’t a poke. Nigthwolf's shoulder hits mid only when he uses the Super Meter, plus only the 2nd attack hits mid. No options from what I see. His XR is totally useless against a d+4 abusing Mileena. Raiden? If he teleports he doesn’t have enough time to do anything against d+4. Let’s say that Raiden does d,u and he tries jumping over Mileena because d+4 wasn’t fast enough; with good timing Mileena can roll to AA him right after he goes over her (requires a very strict timing but can be done) or get away safely. b,f+3? No.

The only option available for all the characters is JK (working as OTG) but a good Mileena player can adapt to it quickly and that’s where the real fun starts.

I don't consider myself a good Mortal Kombat player but I've been quite experienced with other fighting games for the past 7 years tournament-wise. If something has an unusual hitbox then that’s usually wrong.
 

Furb

Noob
I usethe D4 a lot and I sometime feel bad about it. It is a good move but it's not like there's no way around
AA: you mean teleport kick, roll or...?
Projectile: not that good.
Teleport: super punishable.
Good overhead: Slightly over average.
Low starter: not usefull as hitconfirm; unsafe if followed up by the roll on blocking opponent.
For a good player, all of this stuff (+d4) is enough to win almost every matchup in this game. Trust me.
 

Eazail

Noob
Guys, Reptiles d4 is just as annoying as Milena and Sonya d4. Learn to adapt people and stop complaining.