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Breakthrough - Summoner METERLESS Trance Guaranteed Bat Vortex

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I've always had an interest in Summoner Quan and I think seeing this has caused me to succumb to the allure of Puggles. Sign me up mate.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Finally had the chance to try this last night on stream.

After about 20 minutes I was getting it consistently, very surprised how easy it actually was.

Amazing find, anyone else think Quan is still insanely under explored? This has been in since the patch, more crazy stuff was being found before his nerfs even hit. So much is around for this character.

Bet Sorcerer has some hidden broke stuff too, just like before.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Finally had the chance to try this last night on stream.

After about 20 minutes I was getting it consistently, very surprised how easy it actually was.

Amazing find, anyone else think Quan is still insanely under explored? This has been in since the patch, more crazy stuff was being found before his nerfs even hit. So much is around for this character.

Bet Sorcerer has some hidden broke stuff too, just like before.
Couldn't agree more. I think pre-patch Summoner was the best character in the game at the time for free, he was already top 2 at least. With some more time I think he could have dominated a damn good chunk of the cast and maybe even had no bad MUs.

I think Summoner is one of the only variations in the game where lab time actually pays off. You can lab for hours with characters like A-List or Mileena, but chances are you won't find much, their best tools are easy to use and pretty straight forward. But Quan, he's a completely different beast.

And yeah, after a little practice this is surprisingly very easy.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
i wish they hadnt nerfed summoners loopable vortex so hard, at the very least i'd hope they'd leave this in the game, since you have to sacrifice overall damage to get it now? u.u
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
i wish they hadnt nerfed summoners loopable vortex so hard, at the very least i'd hope they'd leave this in the game, since you have to sacrifice overall damage to get it now? u.u
I wouldn't say you're giving up damage at all when you do the optimized combo. 35% meterless into safe loopable 50/50 vortex?
 

Poshib

The Artman
This sort of thing can be applied to Sorcerer as well. Was messing around with some meterless Spell combos. Will share soon. Awesome discovery.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
@The_Tile


Just wanna double check since I'm not a Summoner main and am not familiar with some of it's intricacies; is there any drawbacks to doing this? Cause I feel like this is a little bit too simple for someone else to not have found by now.

I don't know what the optimal damage is if you wanna go for the full conversion (again, not familiar enough with using the bat attacks in conjunction with gravity scaling to test) but I would've thought it'd be knocking on 40%'s door.
 
@The_Tile


Just wanna double check since I'm not a Summoner main and am not familiar with some of it's intricacies; is there any drawbacks to doing this? Cause I feel like this is a little bit too simple for someone else to not have found by now.

I don't know what the optimal damage is if you wanna go for the full conversion (again, not familiar enough with using the bat attacks in conjunction with gravity scaling to test) but I would've thought it'd be knocking on 40%'s door.
The most I have been able to get is 28% meterless into bat vortex :

B2xxskull, BL2, dash, NJP, 2xxtrance, bat summon, d3

Not sure if you have time to do a s4, but I have been resetting this vortex with d3 not only because of practicality, but because the Rising Demon (bL2) is very inconsistent midscreen if isn't done right after being summoned. This means in order for the Rising Demon not to whiff midscreen 100% of the time, it is better to go for the combo right after you Summon the Bat ( without long delays or run cancels). And when you do s4 (of course it does more damage and leaves you at +19) opponent moves backwards after being hit, so when you go for the next mix up b2xxskull still connects just fine (although even here the Rising Demon may whiff sometimes because of the spacing that s4 provides) but in order for b32xxskull to connect you will have to move which sometimes causes the Rising Demon to whiff. Using d3 I have been able to do this pretty consistently in real matches midscreen.
I also use b2xxSkull, Rising Demon, b2xxTrance, Bat summon - it is very easy and if I go for the vortex I do d3 here (the whole thing does 25%) or continue the combo with b324, Demon Spark (the fireball from the bat - fL2), dash, 141. It does 36% in total meterless, allows free bat summon, zoning afterwards and has decent corner carry.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
@The_Tile


Just wanna double check since I'm not a Summoner main and am not familiar with some of it's intricacies; is there any drawbacks to doing this? Cause I feel like this is a little bit too simple for someone else to not have found by now.

I don't know what the optimal damage is if you wanna go for the full conversion (again, not familiar enough with using the bat attacks in conjunction with gravity scaling to test) but I would've thought it'd be knocking on 40%'s door.
The most I can get off that particular starter you showed is 35% meterless. Swap the S1 before trance for a B1 then after bat summon do B324, F+LT, Runxx141. This is the same as his normal bnb AFAIK so I don't think it improves his midscreen damage.

The reason for this is you don't have enough time to link F2 after bat summon, so either 14xxSkull or B324 must be used to extend the combo instead.

If you're going for the vortex there is no reason to not use this tech as it makes his vortex game as strong as pre-patch just with less damage. If you're going for damage/corner carry though you're best just going for normal bnbs as far as I'm aware cause the execution is easier for the same reward.

The new combos do have a bit better meter build actually so maybe that's a reason to use them? I just try and use them when I can because swag lol.

In the corner though I do this all the time versus characters who have armor moves which can't be broken by F21, I haven't tested exactly but I think it's any with around 12 ish frames startup. If they can be broken with F21 you're best going into max damage then F212 on their wakeup because it will cover wakeup, delayed wakeup, is hitconfirmable, safe on block and can be made plus enough to guarantee another 50/50 with ExSkull. Or you can go into F212xxNon-MbRune, and with the bat out the mind game becomes the same as the MbRune mindgame, where I can send the bat earlier for more safety or later for more plus frames but it will create a gap. Doing F212 on wakeup has no downsides really, the meter building is pretty good from it too.

EDIT: As @legion666 said use B2 trance instead of B1 or S1 when possible, nets en extra 1% and it's actually easier to do.
 
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