Mean Streak Kabal Anti-Wakeup Tech

[Blewdew]

So if you thought mean streak kabal couldn't get any harder to play here is something interesting for you guys lol.
this setup basically shuts down every wakeup option as long as it doesn't have a big vertical hitbox with armor like scorpions u3.
I only labbed it in the corner yet, though I don't see why it shouldn't work midscreen beside that it's probably harder to convert.
also this tech may be flawed, feel free to leave any suggestions to test if this tech is actually viable, maybe I overlook something!

this is how it works:

1. basically you just do your basic bnb in the corner ending with db4. if you end your combo with db4 it leaves you at a specific range which is important for the tech.
2. this is the hard part. after db4 you wait just a little bit and do an backjump ia amp buzzsaw. the timing and height of the buzzsaw is really important. if you do the buzzsaw right after db4 the armor of u3 wakeups will absorb the buzzsaw, you're still safe but that's not what we want. waiting just a few milliseconds let you hit your opponent after his armored frames and during their recovery. this is why it's also important that the buzssaw is done at head height at max it can't be any higher or else it will whiff.
3. hitconfirm the buzzsaw into a full combo, it isn't too hard luckily.

this is how this tech acts against different wakeup options:

• it full combo punishes wakeup u3, wakeup u2, wakeup jump and wakeup njp
• on block it can be made -4 with perfect execution and leaves you at perfect b1 or d4 range
• on whiff (wakeup roll, delayed wakeup, wakeup neutral duck) it's safe and can't be punished

important notes:

• I tested it against the whole cast beside shang tsung and it covers 74% of the casts wakeup attacks. the only u3 that can hit kabal out of it is scorpions u3, otherwise the air buzzsaw just whiffs on a few characters. some u2's trade with the buzzsaw.
• if you do the buzzsaw too early wakeup u3 will absorb the hit. it is still safe though.
• you can even combo of non amp buzzsaw but it's punishable on block
• it HAS to be backjump ia buzzsaw, it cannot be: forward jump ia buzzsaw, short hop ia buzzsaw, nj ia buzzsaw
• getting the timing and execution for the ia buzzsaw down can be pretty difficult so don't give up if it takes several hours to get somewhat consistent with it

if performed right, this is how it should look like:

this video demonstrates the tech against wakeup u3,u2,jump in,neutral jump, tech roll, delayed wakeup and block

this is an example of how you can convert of it:

and another one:

here is a list of characters this tech works with:

Spoiler

layout: Character name ( u3 punish, u2 punish)

Shao Kahn (no,no)
Frost (yes,yes)
Johnny cage (yes,yes)
Sonya (no,no)
Cassie (no,yes)
Jax (no,yes)
Scorpion (no,yes)
Noob (yes,yes)
Baraka (yes,yes)
Raiden (no,yes)
Jacqui (yes,yes)
Subzero (yes,yes)
Kano (yes,yes)
Kabal (yes,no)
Lui kang (yes,yes)
Kitana (yes,yes)
Kung lao (yes,yes)
Jade (yes,yes)
Skarlet (yes,yes)
Erron black (yes,no)
Dvorah (yes,yes)
Kotal kahn (yes,no)
Geras (yes,no)
Kollektor (yes,no)
Cetrion (yes,yes)
shang tsung (?,?)

let me know what you think of this!

@Eldriken
@The_Tile
@SaltShaker
@Saltea Moonspell
@Naumboss

sorry if I forgot any kabal main

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Hmmmmmm. This is fun.

See
I don't like burning bars on the air AMP Wheel.
BUT
In the heat of the moment, I could see this totally taking the wind out of an opponent's sails.
Good stuff.

I'm gonna test it on stuff in Clean Cut and see how Diagonal Wheel fares.

#KabalMasterRace

 

[Invincible Salads]

nice , i mean, obvious tech but nice

 

[Blewdew]

nice , i mean, obvious tech but nice

Yup I actually tried it before in Matches but armor always absorbed the buzzsaw so I didn‘t really labbed it but with the adapted timing it seems that it covers a lot of options without being punishable at all

 

[Invincible Salads]

Yup I actually tried it before in Matches but armor always absorbed the buzzsaw so I didn‘t really labbed it but with the adapted timing it seems that it covers a lot of options without being punishable at all

still feel like i'd prefer just doing a well timed b1 tbh, pretty good alternative tho.

 

[SaltShaker]

Damn I'm loving this. That jump adds so much safety on WUs and Kabal needs offensive meter less than most so I'd be ok burning the bar. Gonna mess around with this tomorrow when I'm on but my head is already spinning with ideas! Great stuff!

 

[Blewdew]

Hmmmmmm. This is fun.

See
I don't like burning bars on the air AMP Wheel.
BUT
In the heat of the moment, I could see this totally taking the wind out of an opponent's sails.
Good stuff.

I'm gonna test it on stuff in Clean Cut and see how Diagonal Wheel fares.

#KabalMasterRace

you don't need to burn a bar to combo of it it works without amp too but the only combo I could get from it from that distance is backjump ia buzzsaw,dash,d4~bf3,4~db4 for 20% 1 bar. it also recovers very slowly and is -15 on block so definitely punishable. burning the bar makes every option safe and let you cash out with 28-30%.
the diagonal one can punish wakeups that the horizontal one can't punish like jax u3 but I couldn't convertt from it.

still feel like i'd prefer just doing a well timed b1 tbh, pretty good alternative tho.

understandable, though it really depends on the character. for example, errons u3 will always catch you if you try to b1 while ia buzzsaw actually full combo punishes. if you want to combo of b1 you also have to commit to b12 which is punishable if they wakeup roll or delay wakeup. it doesn't work against geras u2 though so b1 would be the better option in this case
this tech lets you punish every wakeup option of some characters without being in a disadvantage at any time.

Damn I'm loving this. That jump adds so much safety on WUs and Kabal needs offensive meter less than most so I'd be ok burning the bar. Gonna mess around with this tomorrow when I'm on but my head is already spinning with ideas! Great stuff!

yeah go for it. it's kinda tricky to get at first but after a night of practice I can do it quite consistently now. I'm curious what else you'll find!

 

[Blewdew]

I updated the OP with a list of wakeups this tech covers. of 50 different wakeup attacks it stuffs 37 of them, so it works against 74% of all the wakeup attacks in the game.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

I am air saw addict. I like to even use it on blocked jump kicks, since some like to mash. If blocked, Kabal is at small minus frames.

I've been using this as well, though I am too lazy to record stuff.

Props for you doing that. I haven't played in couple days, and you just make me crave some Kaballin'

 

[Braindead]

Hmmmm gonna try this with Subzero's air axe.

Good stuff.

 

[Blewdew]

Hmmmm gonna try this with Subzero's air axe.

Good stuff.

Yeah technically it should work with every air projectile especially with diagonal ones

 

[BoujieLuigi]

Hmmmmmm. This is fun.

See
I don't like burning bars on the air AMP Wheel.
BUT
In the heat of the moment, I could see this totally taking the wind out of an opponent's sails.
Good stuff.

I'm gonna test it on stuff in Clean Cut and see how Diagonal Wheel fares.

#KabalMasterRace

Honestly the only things you need offensive meter for are expended combos and maybe throwing out a low projectile. I typically have offensive meter on standby so this seems good to throw out for me at least.

 

[SaltShaker]

I've been bouncing this around a bit but can't find as much success so far trying to utilize it mid-screen. In the corner though I feel it's very solid as an option to punish their escape plans. Worth the meter imo because after a couple the opponent is more like "ok I'm not risking it", leading to full on corner pressure when the are KD.

Gonna keep messing around to see if I can find a way to maximize mid-screen.

 

[Hellbringer]

Ending combo with db4 leaves u at a range where if u do b1 on their wakeup it whiffs if they do nothing but when they use wakeup attack it makes their wakeup attack whiff and u can cacnel into nomad dash.

 

[Blewdew]

I've been bouncing this around a bit but can't find as much success so far trying to utilize it mid-screen. In the corner though I feel it's very solid as an option to punish their escape plans. Worth the meter imo because after a couple the opponent is more like "ok I'm not risking it", leading to full on corner pressure when the are KD.

Gonna keep messing around to see if I can find a way to maximize mid-screen.

yeah I've used it midscreen here and there and I got some success but you don't get much damage out of it. however in the corner this safed me some games. when you condition your opponent to do something on wakeup this definitely works pretty well.

Ending combo with db4 leaves u at a range where if u do b1 on their wakeup it whiffs if they do nothing but when they use wakeup attack it makes their wakeup attack whiff and u can cacnel into nomad dash.

there are some characters that still hit you at that range if you go for b1 like errons u3 but whiffs on ia buzzsaw. of course it's not recommended to always use this setup, b1 works fine as well and is a good option on knockdown but b1 has some downsides to it:

• b1 only is a safe option if you do b1~ND/NDC and you don't get much damage out of it ( I mean if you try to convert it, not as a stagger I know b1 is safe on block)
• b12 is punishable on delayed wakeup if you don't make the read
• on hit you most likely won't hitconfirm b1 into b12 leaving you plus but you don't get anything out of it
• b1 amp buzzsaw is interruptable

ia amp buzzsaw has no downside beside costing a bar of meter you don't even have to make a read. I have a feeling a lot of people think that I say you should always do amp ia buzzsaw on knockdown which isn't true, mix up your options. it is a great option to have.

 

[Hellbringer]

yeah I've used it midscreen here and there and I got some success but you don't get much damage out of it. however in the corner this safed me some games. when you condition your opponent to do something on wakeup this definitely works pretty well.


there are some characters that still hit you at that range if you go for b1 like errons u3 but whiffs on ia buzzsaw. of course it's not recommended to always use this setup, b1 works fine as well and is a good option on knockdown but b1 has some downsides to it:

• b1 only is a safe option if you do b1~ND/NDC and you don't get much damage out of it ( I mean if you try to convert it, not as a stagger I know b1 is safe on block)
• b12 is punishable on delayed wakeup if you don't make the read
• on hit you most likely won't hitconfirm b1 into b12 leaving you plus but you don't get anything out of it
• b1 amp buzzsaw is interruptable

ia amp buzzsaw has no downside beside costing a bar of meter you don't even have to make a read. I have a feeling a lot of people think that I say you should always do amp ia buzzsaw on knockdown which isn't true, mix up your options. it is a great option to have.

You have to do b1 on wakeup not b12.
When u buffer b1 into nomad dash, the nomad daash only comes out on hit thats the OS.

 

[Blewdew]

You have to do b1 on wakeup not b12.
When u buffer b1 into nomad dash, the nomad daash only comes out on hit thats the OS.

I didn't know this OS existed that's interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I still think ia buzzsaw is superior to b1 though.

 

[Hellbringer]

I didn't know this OS existed that's interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I still think ia buzzsaw is superior to b1 though.

Yeah possible but this OS doesnt cost meter tough and its safe too and really easy to do.

 

[TakeAChance]

After Hook Grab, I just do a micro dash into meaty F2. If they delay wakeup it whiffs, if they wakeup roll it recovers fast enough for you to punish/get a block string, and if they back roll you have time to confirm that option as well.

Only thing that beats it is an U3 and even then it's character specific.

 

[Blewdew]

After Hook Grab, I just do a micro dash into meaty F2. If they delay wakeup it whiffs, if they wakeup roll it recovers fast enough for you to punish/get a block string, and if they back roll you have time to confirm that option as well.

Only thing that beats it is an U3 and even then it's character specific.

Yeah f2 is good for rolls but that it‘s tbh. I rather use b1 than f2 in that scenario.

 

[TakeAChance]

Yeah f2 is good for rolls but that it‘s tbh. I rather use b1 than f2 in that scenario.

Only thing I hate about the B1 is the eternity it takes to recover. F2 checks jumps, rolls, basically everything but an U3

 

[Hellbringer]

Only thing I hate about the B1 is the eternity it takes to recover. F2 checks jumps, rolls, basically everything but an U3

B1 checks most wakeups after db4. Like i mentioned before doing b1 nomad dash the b1 whiffs when they just block or roll and nomad dash only comes out on hit so basically an option select.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Yeah possible but this OS doesnt cost meter tough and its safe too and really easy to do.

what if they block instead?

 

[Hellbringer]

what if they block instead?

If they block b1 whiffs, like i already said

 

[Invincible Salads]

If they block b1 whiffs, like i already said

due to timing of getting up?