[Matchup Discussion] Cyborg vs. Superman living guide

Discussion in 'Cyborg' started by Protagonist_1, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. [Matchup Discussion] Cyborg vs. Supeman(Last edit: 9/15/2017)

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    The goal of this thread is to not just discuss the matchup, but to go highly in detail of nearly all possible scenarios when going against Superman and all the options against each. This thread is meant so that any Cyborg player will have a general gameplan to go through the match, so that making the right decisions whether in neutral, or under pressure, can be made. I hope that matchup threads like these will be used in other character forums to provide better detail for future matchup discussion.

    Keep in mind, this is not set and stone. With patches, and further reevalutation from other Cyborg players and Superman players, this will be updated. I plan to do this for every character in the game for Cyborg, and we as a Cyborg community should go in depth for all options to have the best chance at winning. #TEAMBOOYAH

    BUTTON NOTATION
    1 = square,
    2=triangle,
    3=X,
    4=circle,

    XBOX
    1=X
    2=Y
    3=A
    4=B

    UNDERSTANTING RANGE SYSTEM:


    Range 0: (point blank range)
    Range 1: (area from one backdash away)
    Range 2: (area from two backdashes way)
    Range 3: (area from three backdashes away)
    Range 4: (area from four backdashes away)
    Range 5: (area from five backdashes away)
    Range 6: (Full screen, will be regarded as such)

    The range system is essential to know what you as a Cyborg player should be doing or to look out for at each range of the matchup. This is to break down the matchup easier and to evaluate each option.

    GENERAL GAMEPLAN SUMMARY [Subject to change]:
    Superman is a hybrid character with good pressure (f2, f23 trait are plus on block and standing 3 trait is neutral), and zoning options as well. The goal of this matchup is to play the midscreen game, using IAFB, TA, trait and MB fireballs to counter Superman’s long startup on his lazer options. By doing this, Cyborg will have meter available for clash, as well as pushblock when pressured under trait. Avoid being put into the corner at all cost, and do whatever you can to get out to maintain midscreen position. Superman’s pressure in the corner oppresses most of Cyborg’s options, so use MB roll (you can cancel NB during a string to roll out), pushblock, or grapple to get out the corner (unless Supes has trait, then grapple is not an option).


    Video Reference:


    NORMALS (All notes consist at range 0)
    Standing 1 [9 frame startup/-1 on block/+21on hit/ high]
    • IF HIT: Any mid or low under 28 frames is guranteed, including throw
    • IF BLOCKED: D1 check or just block. Superman's d1 will trade with Cyborg's d1 in the followup, however Superman will now be +2 (Cyborg's d1 is +10 while Superman's d1 is +12). If Cyborg decides to instead block the follow up d1, superman is now -3, allowing Cyborg to follow up with d1, 23, and reversal throw.
    Standing 2 [10 frame startup/-6 on block/+14 on hit/ mid]
    • IF HIT: Any mid or low attack 21 frames or under is guaranteed
    • IF BLOCKED: Can check with any mid or low attack 12 frames or faster. Thus can check with d1, d2, 23, b123, and reversal grab.

    Standing 3 [10 frame startup/-1 on block/KND on hit/ mid]
    • IF HIT: Delay wakeup to avoid meaty heat zap or heat lasers
    • IF BLOCKED: Can check with a d1, but will trade with Superman's 6 frame d1. Superman will then be +2 (Superman's d1 is +12 while Cyborg is +10).
    • OTHER: You can choose to block the next follow up. For example if superman follows with d1 and Cyborg blocks it, he's at -3, allowing you to counterpoke.
    • OTHER: Knocks opponent back to range 2-3 on hit.

    D1 [6 frame startup/-3 on block/+12 on hit/ mid]
    • IF HIT: Any mid or low faster than 19 frames is guaranteed by Superman
    • IF BLOCKED: Any mid or low by Cyborg faster than 9 frames is guaranteed. Thus check with a d1, d2 or standing 3. Cyborg can also walk back causing another d1 follow up to whiff which can be punished on a read.
    • OTHER: Any d1 link into special by Superman (except rising grab) can be interrupted with 12b2 PF
    • OTHER: If Cyborg pokes with d1 and walks back, Superman's d1 has such short range that it will whiff. This opens up counterpoking and shimmy options shown in the video below:


    D2 [9 frame startup/-10 on block/launches on hit/ mid]
    • IF HIT: Launches for a full combo. Air tech if near death, or clash depending on the scenario
    • IF BLOCKED: Full combo punishable. Can punish with 12b2 PF, 2 PF, d1 PF, or even d2
    • OTHER: Any special link from d2 (except rising grab) can be punished with 12b2 PF. With flying punch, 11 into PF is more consistent since 12b2 doesn't land as consistently.

    D3 [12 frame startup/-10 on block/HKD on hit/ low]
    • IF HIT: Hard knockdown. Cannot tech roll. Look out for common Superman oki options
    • IF BLOCKED: Can punish with d1 PF or standing 2 PF. Although d2 is 7 frames, it will not reach
    • OTHER: Punishing d3 can be tricky do to the amount of block stun. You have to wait for Superman's hand to retrieve back, otherwise the game will eat your input and Cyborg will do nothing.

    F1 [N/A]

    F2 [8 frame startup/-6 on block/-3 on hit/ mid]
    • RANGE: It reaches further than range 1. Thus you must be about range 1.5 to whiff punish.
    • IF HIT: Unless cancelled into trait, neutral jump or continue to counterpoke. The reason why is if your hit by f2 then they'll combo you...fine. But if they try anything cheeky (f2 into grab) then you have an option for it.
    • IF BLOCKED: Counterpoke with d1. All links into his specials jail (except heat zap), and thus you won't get counterhit. Be weary of f2 bounce cancel which can blow this up.
    • **OTHER [TRAIT]: If Superman cancels into trait after f2, he is +3! Unless you read a grab, you must respect all follow up options. Backdashing is not an option, since the "3" portion of follow up f23 will tag Cyborg. If you read a grab after trait cancel, neutral jump and punish, not worth the risk of being shimmied by teching considering you'll eat the full combo anyway. (Needs further testing, I've been able to interrupt f2 trait into f2 in practice mode).

    F3 [30 frame startup/+7 on block/launhes on hit/ overhead]
    • IF HIT: You eat a combo
    • IF BLOCKED: Must respect the follow up f2. Backdashing is not an option, considering f2 will whiff but the "3" portion of f23 will still hit. Best to walk back to avoid walk forward grab and the b1 option (low) by Super.
    • OTHER: F3 into j2 is not guaranteed. Anti-air him out of it. Can be mixed with divebomb, but it's a huge risk and that layer of yomi is a bit too deep in the matchup.
    B1 [20 frame startup/-10 on block/+13 on hit/ low]
    • GENERAL INFO: Supes primary low starter
    • IF HIT: Can be linked into his specials and is a combo starter. If no follow up, any mid or low by Super that is 20 frames or less is guranteed.
    • IF BLOCKED: Can punish with 12b2 EX PF, d1 PF, 2 PF, 23, etc. Standing 2 punish requires strict timing
    • OTHER [SPECIAL LINKS]: All specials (except rising grab) can be interrupted with 12b2 PF. Flying punch can be interrupted with 11 into EX PF or standing 2 PF since 12 puts Superman into a juggle state causing the combo to be dropped.

    B2 [7 frame startup/-19 on block/HKD on hit/ mid]
    • DESCRIPTION: A blockable command grab that is extremely fast
    • RANGE: Reaches at range 1
    • IF HIT: Leads to a HKD
    • IF BLOCKED: Full combo punishable with 12b2 EX PF, reversal PF, d1 PF Standing 2 PF, Standing 3 PF, f2, b2, etc.
    • OTHER [punishent]: If done at max range, Cyborg's d1, standing 3, standing 2 will whiff. You can still punish with f2, reversal PF, and b2 (strict timing).

    B3 [29 frame startup/+5 on block/wall bounce on hit/ mid]
    • RANGE: Reaches at range 1, whiffs at range 2
    • IF HIT: Get combed
    • IF BLOCKED: Can backdash or grapple to avoid guaranteed f23.
    • OTHER: Any followup jump in attacks by Supes are not guaranteed and can be anti-aired

    Df+3 [16 frame startup/-24 on block/KND on hit/low]
    • DESCRIPTION: Superman takes a low lung, leading to a knockdown (can be tech rolled)
    • RANGE: Furthest reaching normal, reaches as far as range 2 for Cyborg
    • IF HIT: Be aware of Superman's ski options
    • IF BLOCKED: Full combo punishable with d1 PF, PF Standing 2 PF, 12b2 PF, b2, Standing 3, f2, b123, etc

    STRINGS:
    1*1 [+15 on hit/ 0 on block/ mid]
    • IF HIT: Must respect all mids and lows (and throws) 22 frames or less.
    • IF BLOCKED: Check with d1. From what I tested, if your crouch blocking Cyborg's d1 comes out before Super's d1, despite Superman having the faster d1 in the neutral situation. This may because Superman is in a standing state, thus taking an extra frame to squat (???)
    • OTHER: Cyborg can punish the gap with super
    • OTHER: Commonly done after MB ice breathe after a combo. Look for grab in this scenario and punish with a neutral jump attack
    1*11 [-1 on hit/-7 on block/ mid]
    • IF HIT: Best to block the next followup. Can counterpoke with d1, but will trade with Superman's d1 (6 frames). Thus, superman is +12, while Cyborg is +10 (overall Superman is +2).
    • IF BLOCKED: Can be punished with 12b2 PF
    • OTHER: If Cyborg has super, he can punish the gap.

    1*1*2 [HKD on hit/-9 on block/ overhead]
    • IF HIT: Hark knockdown. Be ready for any oki options
    • IF BLOCKED: Despite being -9, the pushblock on this string mid screen makes it safe. Can follow up with f22 for plus frames. F22 can be punished by a backdash by Supes. Backdash can be countered with reversal Sonic Disruptor to catch the backdash
    • OTHER: Cyborg can punish both the 1*1 gap and 1*2 gap with super.
    22 [+8 on hit/-3 on block/ mid]
    • IF HIT:
    • IF BLOCKED:
    • OTHER:

    223 [KND on hit/-4 on block/ overhead]
    • IF HIT: It is techrollable, be sure if your mix it up with delayed getup (short and long) as well as with tech roll. Look out for common oki scenarios.
    • IF BLOCKED: Can follow up with any mid or low attack under 10 frames. Follow up with 23, reversal grab, or check with d1.
    • OTHER: The throw reversal timing is tricky, you must input it as the final arm of the 223 swings down.

    b21 [HKD on hit/doesn't come out on block]
    • IF HIT: Superman's dash in is NOT guaranteed. It can be checked with techno tackle, nova blast, up nova blast, and wakeup PF.
    • IF HIT #2: Instant air dash followup by Supes avoids all of these options except up NB, so it's best as Cyborg to do wakeup EX up NB to cover all your options.

    b23 [HKD on hit/doesn't come on block/reverses position]
    • IF HIT: Delay getup or backdash. This move puts Superman within range 1, allowing a meaty f23 to reach.
    • IF HIT #2: Superman cannot grab at this range unless he walks forward. If you see supes walking forward, backdash. Teching is risky considering it can be countered with a meaty f23

    f2d1 [KND on hit/X-8 on block/ low]
    • IF HIT: Use delayed getup, or tech roll into backdash. Superman is guaranteed one free dash, and even with tech rolling, can stuff all of Cyborg's wakeup options excluding techno tackle.
    • IF HIT: Another reason to use delayed getup is that a follow up Instant air dash by Supes beats all of Cyborgs wakeup options**
    • IF BLOCKED: Can be punish with 12b2 PF, d1 PF, d2 (launcher and can reverse positions with d2 NB/SD cancel into forward dash) or can challenge with reversal throw
    • IF BLOCKED (special cancel): All special cancels excluding rising grab are full combo punishable with 12b2 PF or even d1 PF. For flying punch, you can do 11 into PF since 12b2 is inconsistent

    f2d13 [HKD on hit/doesn't come out on block]
    • IF HIT: Delay get up. Superman is guaranteed a free dash in. Wakeup backdash will be stuffed as well as any other wakeup that is not techno tackle. Also, if Superman IAD, he gets an ambiguous cross up setup.

    f23 [launcher on hit/-2 on block/ mid]
    • DESCRIPTION: Champion of the Oppressed is a string that reaches as far as range 2. The last part of the string has a huge hitbox and is very active, so be sure to have a good distance before whiff punishing
    • IF HIT: Get comboed
    • IF BLOCKED: Counterpoke with d1 if no other follow up. D1 will beat any poke option. Also, all his specials except heat vision and heat zap jail, thus even if you press d1 you won't be counterhit.
    • OTHER: Superman can trait cancel after f23 leaving him +2 vs. normals. If he does this, backdash. You'll avoid the next f2 and block the following 3 of f23. Cyborg's backdash can be countered by Superman by doing low scoop after trait cancel or superman punch, but Supes is taking a huge risk.

    SPECIALS
    Heat Vision [27 frame startup/-28 on block/knockdown on hit/mid]
    • IF HIT: Delay getup (short/long), and mix up with tech roll.. This is to avoid meaty heat zap and or MB heat vision
    • IF BLOCKED: Fully combo punishable

    MB Heat Vision [2 frame startup/+11 on block/KND on hit/overhead]
    • IF HIT: Either tech roll to get up quickly or delayed getup. Regular wakeup risks eating meaty followup lasers
    • IF BLOCKED: Although +11, Cyborg is pushed back to range 1-2, and any follow up attack will whiff (also applies to the corner). Walk back and wait for either a dash in (which can be checked with d1 buffer into PF) or IAD.

    Air Heat Vision [26 frame startup/-52 on block/KND on hit/mid]
    • IF HIT: Either tech roll to get up quickly or delayed getup. Regular wakeup risks eating meaty followup lasers
    • IF BLOCKED: At range 0, laser completely whiffs. Can punish with b3 (strict timing) or j3 into 113 PF for ~277 damage. Probably more possible damage on the line but this was I got so far.*
    • IF BLOCKED (2): If blocked at range 1-2, Cyborg can punish with B3 for a full combo punish
    • IF BLOCKED (3): If blocked at full screen, respond with IAFB, or dash to get to range 3-4. This is the sweet spot to zone superman.

    MB Air Heat Vision [2 frame startup/-17 on block/KND on hit/overhead]
    • IF HIT: Either tech roll to get up quickly or delayed getup. Regular wakeup risks eating meaty followup lasers
    • IF BLOCKED: At range 1 (remember this attack whiffs at range 0), Cyborg is guranteed a free dash in, but gives up his turn in attack. Thus if at range 5-6, you want to dash in to get to range 3-4 to establish the zoning game. Unfortunately you cannot punish this move from my knowledge despite being -17.
    Lockdown Launch (AKA low scoop) [20 frame startup/-11 on block/KND on hit/low]
    • IF HIT: The MB version of this move makes it launcher, so get comboed. If not meter, (or whatever reason they decide not to MB it), then wakeup with Nova blast. This will check any ground laser follow up. Keep in mind this option can be countered with Air Heat vision, but can then be counter by Cyborg with Up-Nova blast.
    • IF BLOCKED: Can full combo punish with 10 frames or less. Thus 12b2 PF is the ideal punish. If two bars, punish with 11 bounce cancel for more damage.

    Super breath [21 frame startup/-1 on block/KND on hit/mid]
    • IF HIT: Either tech roll to get up quickly or delayed getup. Regular wakeup risks eating meaty followup lasers. Send Cyborg full screen, so try to work your way back to range 3/4.
    • IF BLOCKED: Can check with a d1, but will trade with Superman's 6 frame d1. Superman will then be +2 (Superman's d1 is +12 while Cyborg is +10). Cyborg is pushed just outside d1 range, so if you walk back (or even stand still), you can whiff punish the d1 follow up. Keep in mind this leaves Cyborg open for a f2 response by Superman, which is then countered by Cyborg's immediate d1 response(completing the yomi cycle).
    • IF BLOCKED (2): If Superman does breath off of any string and follows up with f2, Cyborg can punish by backdashing after breathe and punishing with 12b2 PF. The timing is strict, be sure to practice this! If you are getting standing 2, you are not letting the backdash recover in time.

    MB Super breath [5 frame startup/-1 on block/Static launching state on hit/mid]
    • IF HIT: Get comboed
    • IF BLOCKED: Has much significant push back. Best response is with d1 buffer into PF to catch a Superman f2 attempt. Cyborg's 23 string is also an option, but due to it's hitbox, can be rather hit and miss vs. the good hitbox of f23.

    Rising Grab [X frame startup/X on block/X on hit/X]

    Flying Punch [X frame startup/X on block/X on hit/X]

    MB Flying Punch [X frame startup/X on block/X on hit/X]

    Heat Zap [39 frame startup/+9 on block/knockdown on hit/high]
    • IF HIT: Avoid getting hit at all cost!!! This move takes a ton of damages on hit knocks the opponent 2.5 ranges away. Mix up with delay getup and tech roll if hit to avoid meaty follow ups
    • IF BLOCKED: Avoid blocking this move!!! It does a ton of chip damage and is plus meaning Superman has plus frames to continue zoning to deal more damage.
    • IF DUCKED: Punish with d1 PF or d2
    • IF DUCKED (farther range 2-6): Respond with IAFB. This prevents supes from shooting another heat zap and/or heat vision

    TRAIT: Unchained
    Gives superman a damage buff and breaks all armour. Noticable red aurora when active.

    Trait cancel frame data that must be respected:
    F23 trait
    • Trait cancel is approximately +1 on block vs. normals and +2 on block vs. reversals. Thus it must be respected if executed perfectly with a follow up f2. At the very least, standing 1 with Cyborg will trade, but the risk reward is not in your favor.
    • The only other safe option Cyborg has is to backdash then block after trait cancel. Cyborg will be able to dodge the follow up f2 but will still have to block the "3" potion of the string.
    • If your able to poke out with 12b2 or a d1 with Cyborg, that means the Superman player was probably going for grab or has bad execution on his frame trap.
    • If you read a grab, your better off neutral jumping and punishing with j2 into 12b2 PF
    • Another common option for Superman is to walkback after trait cancel to whiff punish a counterpoke. Again, you should practically never go for a counterpoke in this situation unless your confident your opponent has bad execution. If you read a grab, backdash (safest option), or neutral jump (if read by superman you get comboed, if successful, Cyborg gets a combo).

    F2 Trait
    • Trait cancel off this normal is approximately +2 on block vs. reversals and +3 on block vs. normals. Thus a follow up f2 beats all of Cyborg's options.
    • Most Superman players tend to grab here considering they know the opponent is expecting f23 trait cancel. To beat the grab, neutral jump punish, but this is extremely risky considering if they do a f2 follow up you be punished.

    Standing 3 trait
    • The least common of the trait cancels. It is -2 on block vs. reversals and -1 vs. normals. Thus a well timed d1 (best option) or 12b2 PF will beat out f2.
    • If Superman follows up with d1 (6 frame startup), at the very minimum Cyborg will trade if he does d1.
    • Again, remember d1 into any special by Superman (except rising grab) is full combo punishable with 12b2 EX PF


    SPECIAL CANCEL GAPS
    Standing 1*
    • Any special cancelled off this string can be full combo punished except flying grab
    • Flying punch is inconsistent, so a unique punish (like 11 into PF) is needed
    • Can also duck Flying punch and punish with d1/d2
    Standing 2*
    • Any special cancelled off this string can be full combo punished except rising grab
    • Flying punch is inconsistent, so a unique punish (like 11 into PF) is needed
    • Can also duck Flying punch and punish with d1/d2
    Standing 3*
    • Can only backlash/grapple
    d1*
    • Any special cancel off of d1 can be interrupted with 12b2 PF except rising grab
    • Flying punch is inconsistent, so a unique punish (like 11 into PF) is needed
    • Can also duck Flying punch and punish with d1/d2
    • d1 into special is usually done by superman players after f23 xx trait, d1 xx (any special)
    d2
    • Any special cancelled off this string can be full combo punished except rising grab
    • 12b2, d1, d2, b12, 23, MB f3/b3, f22 (strict timing) can all interrupt (excluding flying punish and rising grab
    • Flying punch is inconsistent, so a unique punish (like b1 12b2 PF) is needed
    • Can also duck Flying punch and punish with d1/d2
    b1*
    • Any special cancelled off this string can be full combo punished except rising grab
    • 12b2, d1, d2, b12, 23, MB f3/b3, f22 (strict timing) can all interrupt (excluding flying punish and rising grab
    • Flying punch is inconsistent, so a unique punish (like b1 12b2 PF) is needed
    • Can also duck Flying punch and punish with d1/d2
    f2d1*
    • Any special cancelled off this string can be interrupted with 12b2 PF and d1 except flying grab
    • Flying punch is inconsistent, so a unique punish (like 11 into PF) is needed
    • Can also duck Flying punch and punish with d1/d2
    22*
    • Can only backdash/grapple (must do very late)
    SUPERMOVE
    Final Flight [6 frame startup/ -6 on block/ 0 on hit/ mid]

    • RANGE: Reaches at all ranges
    • IF BLOCKED: At range zero, the opponent is pushed back to about range 1. Best option is to check with f22. With this, you are +2 and superman can not walk back and whiff punish (although he can dash back and then you can get whiff punished). Other options include d1 buffer into PF (less reliable but can good option select), EX up NB for plus frames and to catch f23 (can be whiff punished but is probably the most safest option), 23 (inconsistent) and b12 (inconsistent).
    • IF BLOCKED (OTHER): Neutral jumping or walking back are also good options to punish a f23 follow up.
    • OTHER: The block stun on this super is relatively long. Thus, it can feel plus but it's not. Be sure to practice the timing of this, it's not something you can just whip out on the fly.
    • OTHER: I wouldn't suggest following up with 23 considering the hitbox of it whiffs on f23 at the range.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    Sir Snibbor and Marinjuana like this.
  2. THE OPENING GAME
    Superman has several common openings that you should keep an eye out for. The following are based off my prior knowledge of playing my training partners, and watching match footage from Tw33dy, and Theo.

    -f23
    • This is by far the most used opening by most Superman players. To punish this, simply walkback and punish with b123 into TA or d1 into EX PF (follow up with f2 TA for oki or f2 SD for HKD into TA to being zoning/meter build).

    -(short walk forward) into f23
    • This opening is commonly done to prevent the punish above. If done, you can no longer walkback to punish f2 (the f2 will reach the walkback and you’ll have to block the rest). To counter this option, you can neutral jump or check with d1 (risky option considering a normal f23 opening will get you tagged)

    -Df + 3 (....needs to be tested further)
    • This normal move is a low that is another option to catch a walkback. To punish, block low and full combo punish, or neutral jump and come down with j2 into b123

    -Instant air dash j1
    • Can be punished with walk back d1. Timing must be on point however, otherwise d2 will be stuffed and now your down the lifelead and in the corner with a traited superman.

    -j1

    -j2 (Most common option used by Tweedy)
    • If it's an instant j2, walk back and punish with 12b2 EX PF
    • If a regular j2, walk back and trip guard with d1 EX PF. It really difficult to trip guard a regular timed or even delayed j2 due to it's active frames and hotbox
    -j3

    -backdash (Most commomly used by Theo)
    • This is a defensive option by Supes, usually done to initiate a zoning game, or see what the opponent will do first. If you read this option, initiate your zoning game with IAFB and air diagonal fireball for meter build. Maintain midscreen position and attempt to land a fireball on hit (or score a knockdown by shooting him out the air). If success with either option, followup with TA or trait. Stay midscreen.

    -Walkback (commonly used by Theo)
    • This is a defensive option by Supes, usually done if they want to see what you’ll do first or if you countered their opening options previously before. The safest opening to this (on a read however since f23 can blow this up) is to begin IAFB and immediately start the zoning game
    • A more ballsy move (although not worth the risk) is to punish this with techno tackle. This should only be done if on a hard read, since whiffing this means eating a full trait combo into corner carry.

    SUGGESTED CYBORG OPENINGS VS. Superman:
    -Walkback
    • This is done to punish the f23 option. Punish with d1 EXPF into f2 TA (or SD for HKD) or b123 into TA/NB into TA for meter build and zoning.
    -Short walkback and block low (or just block low)
    • Done to block the walkforward f23 option, and the df3 option by supes. This is the safest defenisvie option but allows Supes to start his offense early and build meter. Expect f23 trait. After this, if Superman does another f23 you can backdash and block the follow up f23 (to prevent slight meter build and avoid f23 trait grab option).
    -Grapple (forward or backward)
    • Timing must be on point, otherwise you eat f23. Also, keep in mind by doing this you allow superman to initiate his zoning game first. He can even potentially chase you down and pressure (only on a hard read).

    IAFB or Instant Air diagonal fireball
    • Should only be done if the Superman player does not open with f23 and is playing a defensive play style.
     
    #2
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  3. HEALTH COMPARISON:

    PROJECTILE DAMAGE COMPARISON:
    Heat vision damage: 77.24
    MB Heat vision damage: 77.24+ 83.86 =
    Air MB Heat vision damage: 77.24 + 83.86
    Heat zap damage: 132.41

    Heat vision chip: 20.69
    MB Heat vision chip: 33.10 + 20.69 =
    Air Heat vision: 20.69
    Air MB Heat vision: 20.69 + 22.07 =
    Heat zap chip: 60.69


    Nova Blast damage: 90.67
    Target acquired damage: 56.67
    Sonic disrupter Damage: 90.67
    Kamakazie drone damage: 79.33
    Ground drone damage: 79.33

    Nova Blast chip:22.67
    Target Acquired chip: 18.42
    Sonic Disruptor chip: 22.67
    Cyborg Kamikaze chip: 21.25
    Ground Roomba chip: 21.25
     
    #3
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  4. OKIZEME [REGULAR KNOCKDOWN]

    Cyborg midscreen oki setup vs. rising grab (strict timing)


    Cyborg lab: midscreen oki vs flying punch


    Cyborg lab: midscreen oki vs flying punch Ex. 2
     
    #4
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  5. OKIZEME [TECH ROLL]
    General info
    • Superman's flying punch moves his hurtbox back temporarily so tagging him just before he lunges forward with an attack is the key to stuffing this wakeup (also low profiling with d1 or d3)
    • Superman's rising gap is vulnerable to low profiling moves, so a meaty d1 will catch it if timed correctly
    [VIDEO EXAMPLES]

    • For this setup, the trick is to hold TA and cancel it just as Superman touches the ground, then follow into a meaty d1. This low profiles the rising grab, and allows for a good punish
     
    #5
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  6. OKIZEME [DELAYED WAKEUP]
     
    #6
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  7. OKIZEME [WAKEUP BACKDASH]
     
    #7
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  8. REVERSAL SITUATIONS

    REVERSAL SITUATIONS [VIDEO]
    • The following video shows with IAFB execution, superman can no longer shoot heat zap. This means he has to take to the air and do heat vision.


    • If superman blocks a MB air Nova Blast, you can immediately follow up with a straight NB from range 3-4 and stuff heat zap. This is especially important if superman is continually doing heat zap in neutral:


    • At ranges 5-6 (hasn't been tested for ranges 3-4) if Superman blocks a NB, Cyborg can continue to shoot NB and all reversal heat zap and heat vision options will be countered. Superman can avoid this situation by jumping up and doing air laser.


    • The video below showcases that MB diagonal fireball will only reach an airborne Superman using air laser from ranges 1-4. From full screen to range 5, it will whiff. Thus maintaining a zoning range at 3-4 is critical in this matchup. From ranges 5-6, mixing IAFB with NB is your best zoning option, along with using Target Acquried/Trait when Superman is knocked down:
     
    #8
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
    4x4lo8o likes this.
  9. [RESERVED FOR LATER USE]
     
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  13. UPDATE 8/2/2017
    The opening game portion of the thread has been updated along with the reversal section. Frame data and poke options will be included later.

    UPDATE 8/6/2017
    More oki setups added for regular knockdown, and for tech roll. D1 shimmy options also included. Trait cancels that need to be respected have also been updated in the original OP.
     
    #13
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  14. UPDATE 8/13/2017
    Man this is tedious. All normals and string frame data has been updated. Normals have notes on best follow up options when hit and if blocked at range 0 (from what I tested in practice mode, not set in stone).

    UPDATE 8/14/2017
    Projectile damage info updated
     
    #14
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  15. ATP2014

    ATP2014 The best mediocre Batman

    Damn, all this effort, and nobody else has posted.
     
    #15
    Protagonist_1 likes this.
  16. It doesn't surprise me really haha. It's all cool though, I'm doing this for my own benefit as well, gotta put in the work to get better at these matchups. Tired of losing.
     
    #16
  17. COLOS5US

    COLOS5US Noob

    I am not nearly good enough or knowledgeable enough to contribute but I do find all of your content very helpful and it has improved my gameplay a bunch. @Protagonist_1
     
    #17
  18. Thanks man, I appreciate it. :)
     
    #18
    COLOS5US likes this.
  19. Just wanted to echo this. Borg may have the best character subthread on the forum, in no small part thanks to Protagonist
     
    #19
    The_Tile, Kekoa and COLOS5US like this.
  20. Ram

    Ram You can't fight physics

    PSN:
    Ramarix
    pro·tag·o·nist
    prōˈtaɡənəst,prəˈtaɡənəst/
    noun
    noun: protagonist; plural noun: protagonists
    1. the leading character or one of the major characters in a drama, movie, novel, or other fictional text.
      • the main figure or one of the most prominent figures in a real situation.
      • an advocate or champion of a particular cause or idea.
     
    #20
  21. The_Tile

    The_Tile Let's spark Quan up, if ya know what I'm sayin'

    Just gotta say this is an amazing breakdown and will actually help me as a Supes player. I got put into loses by a Cyborg player at VSF so this is definitely useful.

    Also, do WUs lose invincibility after a tech roll? I never knew this and haven't ever heard anyone speak about it
     
    #21
    Protagonist_1 likes this.
  22. :D:D:D Thank you guys!!!

    Thanks! Glad it helped, I struggle a lot in this matchup so if it helps Superman players also that's is great to hear.

    As for wakeups, back in MKX if you did delayed getup you could no longer wakeup, and for tech roll there was no invincibility (although there was no invincibility frames for any non mb wakeup). I just assumed the same was done for this game. I'm 95% sure that invincibility is lost for delayed getup, for tech roll however the wakeups I've been practicing against haven't made that clear.

    @Tweedy Do you know if wakeups after tech roll are invincible?
     
    #22
  23. 4x4lo8o

    4x4lo8o Noob

    Hey, great thread.

    Hahaha, I saw this video and it made me think I should record a trick I learned in IGAU to get your iafb zoning started against Superman. Then I went to record it and realized that Superman's heatzap is slower or has more recovery so it isn't necessary. In IGAU if Superman was just throwing out heatzap as fast as he could it was super annoying and you couldn't interrupt it from fullscreen, you had to duck one, then dash in, duck the second one, and then iafb. In I2 you can just iafb between the zaps at fullscreen. I didn't realize that until just now lol, so thank you, that'll make the match up a bit easier for me.

    I just want to say these videos are great. I hadn't really seen these types of frame traps with his zoning game mentioned much on the forums, and I think most good cyborgs are aware of them, but they're not entirely intuitive to newer players and are integral in a lot of match ups and needed to be laid out somewhere
     
    #23
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  24. 4x4lo8o

    4x4lo8o Noob

    There are no wake ups if you delay the get up. You can stand up and do a special, but it's the same as standing up and doing a normal, there's no wake up properties(it won't say wake up on the screen and in training the bot can't perform a wake up if it delays the get up). So no invincibility.

    Tech rolls act identical to normal wake ups except they start a few frames earlier. Err, the knockdown is a few frames shorter if you techroll, the start up of the move isn't faster, does that make sense?
    But anyway, yes wake ups after tech roll definitely have invincibility
     
    #24
    Protagonist_1 likes this.
  25. Thanks for posting this, I have removed the "tech roll has no invincibility" statement. Need to delete them from the other threads as well.
     
    #25

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