Scott The Scot
Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Hi all, thought I'd share something that's never really talked about in this game: Meaty attacks.
[ The Theory & Explanation ]
[ The Way(s) To Set It Up w/Jason ]
Just trying to help,
Scott
@YOMI REO
@GGA Jeremiah
@SaltFace NS
@idk,whoeverplaysjason
[ The Theory & Explanation ]
Some moves in this game have quite a lot of active frames (around 5 and sometimes more) but at the same time a very small disadvantage on block (say, -3 to -1). We can abuse this on wakeup by hitting the attack in the later active frames (aka meaty) so that we can start to recover a few frames before the opponent does, thus leaving us more advantageous than if we were to hit them on the first active frame.
In this example, I'm using Jason. His D3 has 5 active frames and is -3 on block. I'm going to hit Kung Lao as he gets up with the 4th or 5th active frame so that it leaves me at least neutral on block (at most +1, I believe) then use my 6f D1 to stuff his 7f spin. Without hitting D3 meaty, I would be -3 on block and my 6f D1 would be treated as if it were a 9f poke at 0 on block - in other words, get beat out by the spin.
In this example, I'm using Jason. His D3 has 5 active frames and is -3 on block. I'm going to hit Kung Lao as he gets up with the 4th or 5th active frame so that it leaves me at least neutral on block (at most +1, I believe) then use my 6f D1 to stuff his 7f spin. Without hitting D3 meaty, I would be -3 on block and my 6f D1 would be treated as if it were a 9f poke at 0 on block - in other words, get beat out by the spin.
Other characters can also do this, and it's not just pokes it works with any attack. Kotal Khan can do it with his F1 - example here which also shows meatys can be done from a range, not just on wakeup.
[ The Potential Strategy ]
The beauty of hitting something meaty is that you're guarenteed to get more frame advantage when they wakeup, so doing two pokes in a row - whilst some might think it is scrubby - is a legit strategy as you can potentially frame trap somebody. Then you can use the hit advantage to do a 50/50 or apply more pressure or grab the opponent or whatever. This will work a lot because anybody who knows your characters frame data will say "hey, that move is -x so I have the advantage..." Oh how wrong you are my sweet child.
Once the opponent becomes wise to your plus frames, that's when the fun comes in and you can disrespect them by doing a non-frame trap move. If you know they'll respect your move on block, then you get a free grab or you can get away a string that starts with a high or, again, do a 50/50.
So that's how you mix from your slight advantage, essentially. But what about your opponents options? What if they wakeup? Well if they wakeup who cares they won't launch you unless they spend two bars so it's not a lot of damage, but it's still an option you should try to avoid getting hit by. What if they delay wakeup? Let them delay wakeup. If they do that, your attack will whiff and you'll most likely recover in time for them to get up - thus you get to apply pressure without the threat of a wakeup attack.
Once the opponent becomes wise to your plus frames, that's when the fun comes in and you can disrespect them by doing a non-frame trap move. If you know they'll respect your move on block, then you get a free grab or you can get away a string that starts with a high or, again, do a 50/50.
So that's how you mix from your slight advantage, essentially. But what about your opponents options? What if they wakeup? Well if they wakeup who cares they won't launch you unless they spend two bars so it's not a lot of damage, but it's still an option you should try to avoid getting hit by. What if they delay wakeup? Let them delay wakeup. If they do that, your attack will whiff and you'll most likely recover in time for them to get up - thus you get to apply pressure without the threat of a wakeup attack.
[ The Way(s) To Set It Up w/Jason ]
The best way to set any oki setup is typically with a hard knockdown. Reason for this is so that the opponent doesn't have the option to tech roll and mess up your timing or avoid the setup. Choke is a HKD but doesn't give you enough frames to meaty D3.
Any combos I do will be in the following format regarding damage: (Raw%/Unstoppable Buff%). For Relentless damage, you'll need to find the multiplier yourself in regards to which HP% Jason's at and do the maths yourself.
So yeah that's all from me. Just wanted to share this. Obviously some people would know about this already as it's a thing that happens in lots of fighting games however it's nice just to remind people that something exists. If you know the opponent isn't going to wakeup, then you can also just do Big Leg since it's +7 and if even more adv. if you hit that meaty (the opponent would need to delay wakeup).Any combos I do will be in the following format regarding damage: (Raw%/Unstoppable Buff%). For Relentless damage, you'll need to find the multiplier yourself in regards to which HP% Jason's at and do the maths yourself.
- 112: This string is so underused by Jason players. It's a +20 HKD (more from a juggle probably) that leaves the opponent literally at your feet anywhere on the screen. It's godsend of a string and exactly what we are looking for. Any options listed after 112 is pretty much irrelevant as this is the perfect option.
- B122, B122, 112 (23% / 30%)
- B3U1, B122, 112(22% / 30%)
- B4: Works exactly like 112, except it's less damage by a few% and some times leaves you slightly further away. Might as well either cash out for damage or use 112.
- EX DBF2: Only works when you're in the corner and EX Tight Squeeze them to the corner. HKD, very plus. Has its use, as you can tell.
- B3D1: Tech rollable splat. Quite plus on hit however you will need to adjust for tech rolls.
Just trying to help,
Scott
@YOMI REO
@GGA Jeremiah
@SaltFace NS
@idk,whoeverplaysjason
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