General/Other - Relentless Looking for Jason help

[Ziggy_Stardoge]

Coming from a background of mostly airdashers(Blazblue, Guilty Gear, ect.), this game confuses me. I heard beforehand that Jason is among the worst characters in the game, if not the worst himself. I don't care too much about that as I'm sure he's already viable enough, but I have some questions. 1. How the hell do I mixup? In every game I've ever played overheads were....overheads, you use them to beat crouchers. In this game, Jason's overheads just kinda go right through crouch blockers and of course you can command grab them when they do that either.
2. How do I get in? Playing Relentless you have Mist walk, but it has to be very well timed or EX to make it kinda OK, or else the recovery frames get you killed. Jason is slow, his pokes are slow and feel risky, his clothsline is good but is punishable, and you can't air block in this game so jumping is pretty iffy.
3.When I do get in...What do I even do? There's no one good move I can find that works well for oki. b3 is OK, but can be baited. Sometimes timing a jumping 2 can work alright. Overall he doesn't seem to have any good options here.
4.So, Unstoppable is completely useless? No projectile, no teleport, if he gets zoned its basically Tager vs. Nu, if he miraculously gets in he has EX damage buff for 50% combos, if not....No fun.
5. Have they even hinted at buffing Jason at all for KP2? He just seems....terrible.
6. Anybody think they could do some matches with me and help me learn some stuff?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Yeah Jason is very unorthodox and... Terrible.... He is a grappler, and well, nrs don't know how to properly make grapplers so yeah, basically you use an assload of tick throws when you get in via b1 into one of his 2 grapples (dbf1 for speed and dbf2 for consistency) user his armor effectively, b122 reaches nearly full screen but is very punishable however leads to a full combo if it hits and it is special cancelable, also you don't play Jason for oki, I realize guilty great is huge on oki but there are some characters in mkx that just suck on oki, if you want a strong oki character you should definitely play tremor, he has some of if not the best oki in the game. In order to get in you have to be very very patient with him. He gets zoned out VERY easily. If you plan on going to tournaments, switch characters, if you just want to play for fun, absolutely play Jason because he is in all honesty one of the most fun characters to play in this game (in my opinion) I'm sure that REO or white boy could probably give you way better info than I can though

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Ustoppable is fun because you get to play MKX more

 

[Jaku2011]

If you can't tick throw off his stuff, especially b1 you're gonna have a bad time. One thing I like about unstoppable over Relentless that nobody mentions is that it's easier to tick with unstoppable because there's no possibility of getting teleport. Jason basically has to be patient and get into b1 range. What system are you on?

 

[JDM]

Jason is underrated. After putting in more effort with him and watching whiteboi here are some tips:

B12 is -1 on block and almost no one reacts if you stagger this string, after you can check with a d1xxdf1 and it will usually hit/frametrap. If they block it all then you can start doing B12, D1xxCommand throw. His best tick throws are B1xxcommand grab B2 command grab. PokexxCommand grab. Abuse Pursuit in neutral. Against zoners if they are trying to bait your teleport and aren't throwing projectiles constantly you can use pursuit to completely turn the neutral game around. After you command throw someone you can do run up b1 oki (B1 command grab, B1xxEx clothesline/Choke to break armor attempts, raw pursuit, B12 to leave yourself at -1 for the d1 choke/command grab pressure).

Jason is slept on for sure. He struggles in a certain matchups but once you get the hang of him you can utterly destroy people who aren't used to the matchup. Pursuit is one of the best tools in the game. Killing Machine (DD4??? I think it's called) is a great way to close out a round too. You can do this after a command throw attempt to try and end the round. Don't use it unless you can close out the round for sure.

There's a little more I haven't gone over but I'll let you figure that out yourself. Use your footsies. I know anime fighters aren't really all about whiff punishing especially BB from my time playing it, so jason is definitely gonna feel awkward to you at first. But B122 is one of the best strings in the game bar none. Learn the range and learn how to fuck people over for missing jump ins/whiffing pokes.

 

[Jaku2011]

Also f3 is a good move on okiit reaches far is active forever and hits overhead, no combo but with Jason you take what you can get.

 

[JDM]

also yes his other two variations are shit. Relentless is the only viable one imo. Slasher is fun for shits and giggles but Unstoppable is flat out horrible.

 

[Ziggy_Stardoge]

Ah, so tick command grabs are important. I haven't really been going for those to be honest. I'll head to training mode later and see what I can do. I've only really played one character that did that kinda stuff and that was Minazuki in P4U. I'm on PS4, wowsuchdoge is psn. I'll look into Tremor though, he was my second choice of main, but I ended up buying Jason instead.

 

[Olcadan13]

1. Jason has no good overhead, mainly just do f4 choke for low, and f3 is a hard knockdown overhead, very unreliable. Jason is mainly about tick throws. d1, d3, b1, b2, and 2 4 are all free dbf2s on block

2. b122 is your friend, wait for them to whiff a move or trip guard into b122 full combo. NEVER EX MIST WALK.

3. Like i said above, when they are on the ground and you don't think they will do a wakeup put them in a guessing game with f4 and f3, or while they are blocking do a quick d1 backbreaker. I didn't even know what b3 was until i read your post so it is not good, i can only see it being good for a punish, but 111 choke is always a good punish.

4. There is actually no reason to play unstoppable except for the lulz. Relentless has everything that it has and better. However, unstoppable does have a glitch that makes throws do 27% when in ex damage buff, and 20% when in non ex buff lol. While I do prefer unstoppable to relentless because the dark hockey mask doesn't look as good, I have noticed that the damage buff will never EVER last long enough for you to finish the combo while buffed. Also the heal is a fucking joke. Only heals 5% and the EX VERSION HEALS THE SAME AMOUNT OF HEALTH. PLEASE FIX UNSTOPPABLE NRS

5. Jason is likely getting buffed so that people will actually want to play him vs Leatherface. But you never know, Jason was arguably nerfed in the last patch with his relentless damage buff not being carried over rounds, even though the community recognized him as shit tier, when another shit tier Goro got loads of buffs.

6. I will add you on psn when I get home, hopefully you are in the US.

It should be noted that pursuit should always be used after a successful choke or tight squeeze. If you notice that the opponent is using a wakeup that reaches across the screen to hit you during the pursuit animation, that's when you actually need to do safe pursuit set ups. F44 is safe pursuit midscreen i believe, and if you do F44 EX pursuit in the corner it will likely catch your opponent off guard and make them shit themselves as it does to me everytime i fight a good jason (ahem @Eldriken).

The armor move is only good if you use it when your opponent is on low health, and you can kill them to avoid the cooldown. If your opponent does a breaker while you have armor active, it cancels the cooldown, also if you end a combo with an xray the cooldown is cancelled. If you are looking to quickly end a round then go armor and do f4 xray (preferably with low health cause damage buff)

I am here if you need to talk. Also if you have 50% unstoppable combos post them immediately

 

[REO]

Coming from a background of mostly airdashers(Blazblue, Guilty Gear, ect.), this game confuses me. I heard beforehand that Jason is among the worst characters in the game, if not the worst himself. I don't care too much about that as I'm sure he's already viable enough, but I have some questions. 1. How the hell do I mixup? In every game I've ever played overheads were....overheads, you use them to beat crouchers. In this game, Jason's overheads just kinda go right through crouch blockers and of course you can command grab them when they do that either.
2. How do I get in? Playing Relentless you have Mist walk, but it has to be very well timed or EX to make it kinda OK, or else the recovery frames get you killed. Jason is slow, his pokes are slow and feel risky, his clothsline is good but is punishable, and you can't air block in this game so jumping is pretty iffy.
3.When I do get in...What do I even do? There's no one good move I can find that works well for oki. b3 is OK, but can be baited. Sometimes timing a jumping 2 can work alright. Overall he doesn't seem to have any good options here.
4.So, Unstoppable is completely useless? No projectile, no teleport, if he gets zoned its basically Tager vs. Nu, if he miraculously gets in he has EX damage buff for 50% combos, if not....No fun.
5. Have they even hinted at buffing Jason at all for KP2? He just seems....terrible.
6. Anybody think they could do some matches with me and help me learn some stuff?

Jason isn't "bad" unless you're playing against a character that can consistently low profile his options like Johnny Cage, Mileena, Shinnok, Sub-Zero, etc. Anyone who can't low profile Jason's moves reliably, Jason has no problem fighting against and is very good.

1.) Mix-Ups

"Command Grab" based mix-ups:
B+1~Command Grab or B+1,2 - Abuse this one the most
D+1~Command Grab or D+1~Choke
B+2~Command Grab or B+2~Choke
F+2~Command Grab or F+2~Choke (F+2 is only really used after a jump-in)
2,4~Command grab or 2,4~Choke

On knockdown - Command Grab them raw or do a string.


"Overhead / Low" based mix-ups:
On knockdown - Meaty Forward+3 or slightly delayed F+4,4 is legit. (this is even better with RED SCREEN up)

"Rushdown / Pressure" based mix-ups on BLOCK:
B+1,2~command grab, and then d+1, or B+1,2, d+1
B+1,2~command grab, and then EX Command Grab
1,1,1~command grab, or 1,1,1~B,F+3
1,1,1~command grab, and then EX Command Grab
Anything string into B,F+3, and then EX Command Grab

"Red Screen" set-ups (keep in mind the effectiveness of Red Screen is character specific)
B+1,2,2, run up~B+1,2,2, F+4,4~Red Screen
F+4,4~Red Screen
EX Red Screen after Command Grab or Choke
Neutral Jump Kick, EX Red Screen


2.)
A. Walk. Jason has one of the best walking speeds in the game. He also has some of the best forward walking and back walking transitioning animations in the game. This is all you really need to close the distance, along with some patience.

B. Armor. You can use EX B,F+3+BLK to get in if you think your opponent is getting too careless with projectiles.

C. Teleport. You can use EX D,B+2+BLK to get in if you think your opponent is getting too careless with projectiles.

D. Jump. Sometimes jumping is a really good option and it's always good to show your opponent you have this option available.

I listed them in A-D in order of importance and how heavily you should rely on them in a match typically.


3.) When you get in, you try to apply mostly all of what I listed in 1. Abuse command grabs as much as possible. Get them to be conditioned and then whiff punish them or read their block patterns into more command grabs. Take good note of when they want to escape and hit them in the face with B+1,2,2 or Choke. Establish respect with your D+1 to get them to block. If they get hit by a D+1. You get a mix-up by following up with B+1,2 string or a command grab.


4.) It's not completely useless. Just not as good as Relentess. I'd probably only use it in one, or maybe two match-ups. It has it's perk like high normal grab damage, extra health, and the ability to have "two breaker" in a round by breaking, and then reviving back once you're hit again in a combo and die.


5.) No clue.


6.) I know Whiteboi plays online a lot. I'm sure he would be down to play you. There's also other Jason players like ARMOR and Eldriken.


Hope you have fun with Jason. And remember to always abuse his RED SCREEN in Relentess. It's really cheap and the EX version is without question one of his best tools.

 

[Ziggy_Stardoge]

Also if you have 50% unstoppable combos post them immediately
I'm sorry, I lied. It's 48%. EX Buff into j.2-f2-42u1-b122-b12-really any command grab
If you EX the grab it breaks 50
Pretty impractical though as that combo takes up basically the entire buff period
If I'm not mistaken though, there's a variation of the BnB where if the b122 ends up near the corner you can do 111 and it'll pop em up just enough to give you time to add choke to finish it. I imagine that'd up it to 49 or 50 percent
(Edit) just tested that, yeah 49% with the 111-choke route

 

[Jaku2011]

https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/5d1d0992-77b5-48a4-821a-ca0eab3efeb8?gamerTag=JonLuke93&scid=03a80100-9ff3-46ea-be76-e00e7fe465df

Sorry dont have a youtube but here is some of my Jason play only the first match is relentless, rest is slasher but maybe you'll get something from it.

 

[Ziggy_Stardoge]

Jason isn't "bad" unless you're playing against a character that can consistently low profile his options like Johnny Cage, Mileena, Shinnok, Sub-Zero, etc. Anyone who can't low profile Jason's moves reliably, Jason has no problem fighting against and is very good.

1.) Mix-Ups

"Command Grab" based mix-ups:
B+1~Command Grab or B+1,2 - Abuse this one the most
D+1~Command Grab or D+1~Choke
B+2~Command Grab or B+2~Choke
F+2~Command Grab or F+2~Choke (F+2 is only really used after a jump-in)
2,4~Command grab or 2,4~Choke

On knockdown - Command Grab them raw or do a string.


"Overhead / Low" based mix-ups:
On knockdown - Meaty Forward+3 or slightly delayed F+4,4 is legit. (this is even better with RED SCREEN up)

"Rushdown / Pressure" based mix-ups on BLOCK:
B+1,2~command grab, and then d+1, or B+1,2, d+1
B+1,2~command grab, and then EX Command Grab
1,1,1~command grab, or 1,1,1~B,F+3
1,1,1~command grab, and then EX Command Grab
Anything string into B,F+3, and then EX Command Grab

"Red Screen" set-ups (keep in mind the effectiveness of Red Screen is character specific)
B+1,2,2, run up~B+1,2,2, F+4,4~Red Screen
F+4,4~Red Screen
EX Red Screen after Command Grab or Choke
Neutral Jump Kick, EX Red Screen


2.)
A. Walk. Jason has one of the best walking speeds in the game. He also has some of the best forward walking and back walking transitioning animations in the game. This is all you really need to close the distance, along with some patience.

B. Armor. You can use EX B,F+3+BLK to get in if you think your opponent is getting too careless with projectiles.

C. Teleport. You can use EX D,B+2+BLK to get in if you think your opponent is getting too careless with projectiles.

D. Jump. Sometimes jumping is a really good option and it's always good to show your opponent you have this option available.

I listed them in A-D in order of importance and how heavily you should rely on them in a match typically.


3.) When you get in, you try to apply mostly all of what I listed in 1. Abuse command grabs as much as possible. Get them to be conditioned and then whiff punish them or read their block patterns into more command grabs. Take good note of when they want to escape and hit them in the face with B+1,2,2 or Choke. Establish respect with your D+1 to get them to block. If they get hit by a D+1. You get a mix-up by following up with B+1,2 string or a command grab.


4.) It's not completely useless. Just not as good as Relentess. I'd probably only use it in one, or maybe two match-ups. It has it's perk like high normal grab damage, extra health, and the ability to have "two breaker" in a round by breaking, and then reviving back once you're hit again in a combo and die.


5.) No clue.


6.) I know Whiteboi plays online a lot. I'm sure he would be down to play you. There's also other Jason players like ARMOR and Eldriken.


Hope you have fun with Jason. And remember to always abuse his RED SCREEN in Relentess. It's really cheap and the EX version is without question one of his best tools.

You sir, are the best. Thank you so much, I'm gonna have to put a lot this into action tonight. I really haven't been using red screen as much as I should either.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I was going to write a long post on Relentless/Unstoppable, but several posters have already covered the basics very well.

I will just reemphasize something with respect to playing Unstoppable: Armor, armor, armor, command, grabs, command grabs, command grabs, and tick throws, tick throws, and more tick throws. In general, you want to be command grab heavy in Unstoppable, because he is designed to be a tank who does big damage in short bursts. Make sure you master using d1~dbf2, B1~dbf2, 24~dbf2 (Great after a blocked jump-in), d3~dbf1 (this is the only one I recommend using with back-breaker instead of tight squeeze), and d4~dbf2.

This leads to my second main point about unstoppable: Get punishment (his damage buff) on the screen as much as you possibly can. The duration on the damage buff is terrible (IMO, the biggest buff Unstoppable needs is a longer lasting damage buff), but it jives perfectly with basing your game off of command grabs, armored chokes, and armored temple punches.

Also, back-breaker is a bit underused by most Jasons that I have seen or played against, IMO. Yes, it can be ducked, but it is very fast and is a very good punish option in certain situations and lands a lot more in the neutral than you might think.