What's new

Guide - Grandmaster Living Guide[UPDATED]- How to Deal with Grandmaster by hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
At this point everybody had surpreme dirt.

God forbid he has guaranteed chip and ghetto mixups when half the cast had safe 50/50s and just as much chip with low execution.

Sub community has always made out their character as bad because hitbox fuckups and characters with disjointed hitbox's.

JC community from what i saw was just defending the fact he wasnt a top 5 1 touch death machine like he was made out to be.

Johnny has in no patch ever been a clear top 5 contender.

He might have been at some point at the start, but nobody was playing him to his potential so it was never an issue.

He was top 8 in the last patch and because he hadnt been changed much people made out he was always this good and the jc community were crybabies, forgetting all the character changes around him and the fact it took most players months and months to play him close to his potential.

After the dust had settled with the last patch absolutely nobody was downplaying him.

Sub community has perma downplayed.
Still downplayin johnny post patch? Boi...

I've played a Johnny with good neutral, and I've played one who is good at jailing. Shit is hilarious. Either you have fast armor or you block and pray.

It doesn't matter he wasn't played to his full potential. I've seen what he can do when he jails and what he can do in general. Dude was fucked up, and that's no excuse using the he never made top 8 thing.

Sub zero community never downplayed. You've prolly read stream chat when watching sub face his horrible match ups or listened in on one of Brady's trolling moments. We all knew how we can fuck shit up in the corner. But it's a night and day difference from pre patch. Sub zero is amazing now, and he finally works properly. That's the big deal. So we can talk about nerfs. Nerfing sub and leaving him as he was pre patch is dumber than the nerf Jax got to his dash punch.

But talking to a Johnny player it's a whole different argument since we looked like downplayers since the mu was bad. I understand where you're coming from there :)
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
I know but some of the bills being sold here are ridiculous.

B2 100% needs a nerf.
Why did everyones overhead get nerfed to fuck except his. Its alright a nightmare to punish and either carries you half way along the screen the corner or leads to like 40% into a setup which 90% of the cast really struggle against.

His jip needs nerfed.

They made all these universal changes that benefitted him and buffed him, meanwhile forgetting to give him the universal overhead nerf.
*sigh. if b2 gets any nerfs it should only be to the blockstun or the pushback. There should be no changes to the slow down. It will absolutely destroy his combos and fucks up all the variations. Make it easier to punish, and he'll be ok.

90% of the cast? K dude

Jump in I agree. Might be the most obnoxious thing about sub IMO.
 

Wigy

There it is...
*sigh. if b2 gets any nerfs it should only be to the blockstun or the pushback. There should be no changes to the slow down. It will absolutely destroy his combos and fucks up all the variations. Make it easier to punish, and he'll be ok.

90% of the cast? K dude

Jump in I agree. Might be the most obnoxious thing about sub IMO.
I'd be happy if they made his b2 -15 on block with no pushback.

It would mean you get a solid punish with everyone and he doesnt vanish behind his clone when he does a b2 in the corner on block.

The risk reward is silly, big ass shatter combo off a mixup that nobody can do shit about without meter, and a lot of metered moves dont work. Needs two hits of armour or disjointed hitbox or very fast.

at least prepatch you could launch him for trying.

His jip needs 4 or so more frames of startup.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Still downplayin johnny post patch? Boi...

I've played a Johnny with good neutral, and I've played one who is good at jailing. Shit is hilarious. Either you have fast armor or you block and pray.

It doesn't matter he wasn't played to his full potential. I've seen what he can do when he jails and what he can do in general. Dude was fucked up, and that's no excuse using the he never made top 8 thing.

Sub zero community never downplayed. You've prolly read stream chat when watching sub face his horrible match ups or listened in on one of Brady's trolling moments. We all knew how we can fuck shit up in the corner. But it's a night and day difference from pre patch. Sub zero is amazing now, and he finally works properly. That's the big deal. So we can talk about nerfs. Nerfing sub and leaving him as he was pre patch is dumber than the nerf Jax got to his dash punch.

But talking to a Johnny player it's a whole different argument since we looked like downplayers since the mu was bad. I understand where you're coming from there :)
Wait wait wait... Are you seriously saying the sub community never downplayed. Other members of the sub community even agree lol.

Also are you saying jc is good postpatch? Are you high? Hes very solidly mid tier now.

Guess we have totally different perspectives on things, so i guess we can agree to disagree bud.

I think there is undeniable stupidy stuff
B2
Jip
Corner game.
Clone totally negating some characters tools.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
@Wigy oh and by the way. The downplaying "cause other characters do that too bro" thing doesn't work. It doesn't matter in the conversation.

B2 is fine at -13. Blockstun and pushback need to be adjusted. Hopefully that's more of a universal change however. I will not accept it while lasher possessed and other moves remain the way they are.

Jump in punch the same deal. Universal anti air buff again or jump in nerf. Countless characters have them.
 

Wigy

There it is...
@Wigy oh and by the way. The downplaying "cause other characters do that too bro" thing doesn't work. It doesn't matter in the conversation.

B2 is fine at -13. Blockstun and pushback need to be adjusted. Hopefully that's more of a universal change however. I will not accept it while lasher possessed and other moves remain the way they are.

Jump in punch the same deal. Universal anti air buff again or jump in nerf. Countless characters have them.
You saying two wrongs dont make a right in the first sentence and then justifying subs stupidity with other characters stupidity.

Lasher is a bit ridiculous and i cant comment on possessed as i havent played a good one.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Wait wait wait... Are you seriously saying the sub community never downplayed. Other members of the sub community even agree lol.

Also are you saying jc is good postpatch? Are you high? Hes very solidly mid tier now.

Guess we have totally different perspectives on things, so i guess we can agree to disagree bud.

I think there is undeniable stupidy stuff
B2
Jip
Corner game.
Clone totally negating some characters tools.
No I never said both those things. All the top subs never downplayed. they wanted him fixed before he was nerfed

Also I never said Johnny is top tier now. I agree he is mid tier. We were talking about post patch.

Clone never really negates tools. If your tool is to bully someone nonstop then clone slows you down. It's just finding a way around it. He does need some adjustments, but not some dumb ones salty players are suggesting
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
You saying two wrongs dont make a right in the first sentence and then justifying subs stupidity with other characters stupidity.

Lasher is a bit ridiculous and i cant comment on possessed as i havent played a good one.
That's a wrong comparison. Justifying jailing pressure and insane mind games with other jailing pressure and insane mind games is one thing. Asking that a punishable move become more punishable while leaving others to freely throw out pseudo safe launchers is another. I said fair balance. If one stupid is nerfed the other should too.
 

Wigy

There it is...
No I never said both those things. All the top subs never downplayed. they wanted him fixes before he was buffed.

Also I never said Johnny is top tier now. I agree he is mid tier. We were talking about post patch.

Clone never really negates tools. If your tool is to bully someone nonstop then clone slows you down. It's just finding a way around it. He does need some adjustments, but not some dumb ones salty players are suggesting
if we're going off top players, mike metroid, djt, xarakamaka, irishmantis, eddy, have said he was top tier, from day 1.

Madzin, i never heard downplaying. Tom brady has done nothing but downplay, rest of community has done nothing but downplay. Though in this patch you guys are admitting hes good now, though handing out so many bills of ways to get around stuff

There is ways around stuff but its always bad risk reward with tonnes of hard reads.

Already derailed the thread, so i'll just leave u to it.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
if we're going off top players, mike metroid, djt, xarakamaka, irishmantis, eddy, have said he was top tier, from day 1.

Madzin, i never heard downplaying. Tom brady has done nothing but downplay, rest of community has done nothing but downplay. Though in this patch you guys are admitting hes good now, though handing out so many bills of ways to get around stuff

There is ways around stuff but its always bad risk reward with tonnes of hard reads.

Already derailed the thread, so i'll just leave u to it.
Tom is a major troll, he always thought sub was good. But like I said countless times we wanted his issues fixed before he was nerfed. We don't have as many top player subs since he was sort of broken and has a ton of bad mus. Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen true sub downplay. We can agree to disagree on that :)

My main purpose of this thread is to show people ways of how to get around stuff and not just get gimmciked and cornered then proceed to complain and destroy the character. As long as people know what sub is capable of, we can have a nice and productive discussion on what nerfs he should get.
 

Wigy

There it is...
So New Patch Nerfs for Sub-Zero are again "Paulo the Ice Klone!!!!" and Now "Paulo his B2!!!!" oh and "Paulo his JIP!!!!"

Last time I checked he can't over head into a stun special like most of the cast meterless mid screen...ahem Scorpion. And like a lot of the cast does Major damage in the corner. ahem D'Vorah, Jacqui. Only thing is his Ice Clone can keep them there IF they have no meter or have no good Armour options...like poor Smoke.

FFS, he's the Best his been but he's still not Solely winning majors without a character change. He still has unwinnable match ups and again high level players can blow up mid level players regardless of character.

Haters are gonna hate it seems, he's not impossible these are some pretty good ways to deal with him. Enough with the Nerfs already learn the fucking match up, lab it, try Shit, pick up Ermac, Pick up Mileena or just bite the bullet and pick up the Grandmaster who knows you might even have fun...
Every character got their overheads nerfed except him and his was great prepatch.

His jip remains as one of the stupid ones, so along with scorpions j3 should be changed just to name a few