Question - Liu Kang Liu Kang's Bad Matchups?

[The Celebrity]

In response to your comments about liu pressuring sub, there are strings that can break the clone and the slide. Imo subs best option out of liu's pressure (excluding the the mb flying bicycle kick) is his backdash.

The mu is arguably 5-5.

Makes sense, but his backdash is also a reason I'd say he's annoying to deal with. I do agree though and I think the matchup is still even, not bad. Said that earlier.

I am curious as to why you think Sonya beats Liu though. Liu can still backdash her overhead option and she has pretty crap armor options to get out of pressure. Only thing I can think of that separates her from other characters is how its hard to anti-air her JI1, but D2 still works for that decently, and worst case you can just use his walk back speed. Is it because of her parry? It doesn't cover low so in my experience you just abuse F44 cancels in this matchup.

 

[Syzoth]

Lui seems to destroy my Reptile so I find myself countering with shinnok. Has an answer to dragon fire and flying kicks.

 

[DrFolmer]

I think playing against Liu is about taking a leap of faith - you just gotta contest something, take a risk. You can't really keep blocking. He just builds insane amounts of meter while chipping you to death.

And try not to get pissed off. Like, when you're at 35 % health with 2 bars and Liu is basically untouched, dont throw out a breaker - most of the times you wont take the round anyway. The worst thing about Liu is not the pressure, but the fact that he gets in for free with that damn flying kick. You can't even neutral duck that shit, so just take the loss of the round and go into the next round with meter advantage.

If you have shitty armor and slow moves - well good luck mate.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Summoner Quan dude, who needs armor when you can d1 out of pressure?

 

[One Inch Punch]

bad matchups? no way!!! he's S+ now

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Lao for flame fist yes but dragons fire could be 5-5.

Cassie potentially loses to flame fist and probably goes even with dragons fire.

Im going with OFFLINE matchups, online probably he doenst loose any matchups

 

[ragnar0kz28]

So far these are the losing mus i have for liu and of course im up for discussing them.

Dragons fire:
Kitana
Tanya
Jax
Kano
Ermac
Shinnok
Sonya

Flame fist:
Predator
Ermac
Kano
Quan chi
Shinnok
Tremor

How on earth is kitana beating Dragon Fire? I got that matchups OFFLINE 6/4 Liu, Flame fist 5/5 offline considering parry works after flurryfist not like online that it wont come out. Also fireballs recover properly offline not so fast like in online.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Flame fist 5/5 offline considering parry works after flurryfist not like online that it wont come out. Also fireballs recover properly offline not so fast like in online.

I told you Royal Storm 8-2 Flame Fist. Kitana has easy tool (ex rising blade) to punish wind mill punch or flurry fist (or whatever it is). The only safe option left is wp cancelled into ex dragon roar, but Kitana can JUMP on out it. But it's hard to fight Dragon Fire though, his "block infinite" works well on Kitana

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Im going with OFFLINE matchups, online probably he doenst loose any matchups

So i am...why do think i mentioned those characters as losing matchups? Simple mathematics

 

[rubmytaco]

The reason I find it an annoying matchup (not bad, but annoying), is because clone blows up your pressure as a better option than what about every other character has. For example, after fly kick MB, subzero can EX clone and suddenly be ahead in neutral. It covers every liu kang option. Similarily, cancels like F44 that don't actually jail people normally have to respect, but subzero gets a free clone during that moment so that if LK tries to read armor, he gets frozen, if he tries to pressure, he gets froze. It covers several liu kang options with a single input, thats the value.

The other thing is I find it very hard as LK to deal with his Subzero when you are in the corner. When Liu Kang is knocked down and SZ sets up a clone, all Liu has as wakeups are highs. Meaning Sub can just D1 outside the range so that only if you armor will it hit. That makes all your wakeups miss by either flying over him, or get hit by a D1. A lot of characters can combat Subzero corner pressure using Neutral Jumps, but Liu Kang's is god awful, so that option is basically removed.

As Liu Kang, you need to make more reads on the Subzero player, than he has to make on you. Thats why this matchup is annoying... It also makes you play a different game than normal since in this matchup you have to play full screen and zone, not pressure. With that said, its nothing worse than a 4-6, and I think I'd still consider it a 5-5. I'm not xarakamaka though, so what I say doesn't hold much ground.

You don't NEED the pressure game at all... Just throw out low fireballs smartly and annoy/chip sub to death. If he gets impatient and jumps (like I did in my match vs Xarakamaka in ESL) tripguard or anti air, sending him full screen and starting the zoning again.

 

[Marinjuana]

Why do you think he loses to Tremor? Every Tremor I've seen has said that's a terrible match-up, albeit they were probably referring to dragons fire.

I'm not super knowledgable of Liu Kang but Dragon's Fire is a nightmare, everything bad about Tremor gets brought out hard in that MU. Flame Fist may be a losing MU for Tremor too, but it doesn't have that crazy pressure. Both keep Tremor's zoning in check or flat out zone him. And Liu can just shit on Tremor's armor and low profile him. Tremor's defense is largely in his ability to armor and Liu makes you scared to. I definitely don't see FF it as a winning matchup for Tremor.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

When I play Liu Kang, my biggest problems start when I play vs Tanya, Shinnok, Cassie Cage and Sonya Blade. The last two mostly because of 50/50 and I'm no wizard to predict when I need to block high or low.

you play Liu Kang Bruh!

why would you even block?

 

[ragnar0kz28]

So i am...why do think i mentioned those characters as losing matchups? Simple mathematics

You aply a lot of online tactics, and liu is way better online.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

You aply a lot of online tactics, and liu is way better online.

No i don't. I have our sets recorded and i noticed how you did things that clearly only work in the fantasy land of online. I also noticed how both of us missed punishes so it isn't like online was working for only one of us...

Just don't point fingers at what u were doing.

 

[Kaneki]

But that doesn't sound worse that 5-5 at all

I don't believe its a bad match up lmao

 

[ragnar0kz28]

No i don't. I have our sets recorded and i noticed how you did things that clearly only work in the fantasy land of online. I also noticed how both of us missed punishes so it isn't like online was working for only one of us...

Just don't point fingers at what u were doing.

projectiles recovering faster at mid range online and never being able to block a back 2 after a normal jump, the only thing that kitana can "abuse" is f11 f112 nothing more liu and mileena for example are WAY safer online.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

projectiles recovering faster at mid range online and never being able to block a back 2 after a normal jump, the only thing that kitana can "abuse" is f11 f112 nothing more liu and mileena for example are WAY safer online.

Projectiles recovering faster online is just online as a whole...not the player.

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Projectiles recovering faster online is just online as a whole...not the player.

yes but it helps lius game ALOT, at jump in 2 range offline i see a fireball animation comming out I jump in 2 full combo him every time online he gets to block most of the time

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Guys, I made an MU chart about Liu Kang... here's his bad matchups:

Dualist: A LOT of bad matchups (over 50).

Flame Fist (13): Swarm Queen (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6), Shaolin (4-6), Dragon's Fire (4-6), Piercing (3-7), Ethereal (4-6), Displacer (4-6), Imposter (4-6), Demolition (4-6), Dragon Nagnata (4-6), Blood God (4-6), Tempest (4-6).

Dragon's Fire (10): Swarm Queen (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6), Royal Storm (4-6), Shaolin (4-6), Piercing (3-7), Imposter (4-6), Demolition (4-6), Grandmaster (4-6), Tempest (4-6).

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Dualist: A LOT of bad matchups (over 50).

Flame Fist (18): Swarm Queen (4-6), Ermac's all variations (4-6), Vicious (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6), Shaolin (4-6), Dragon's Fire (4-6), Piercing (3-7), Ethereal (4-6), Warlock (4-6), Displacer (4-6), Hellfire (4-6), Imposter (3-7), Demolition (3-7), Dragon Nagnata (4-6).

Dragon's Fire (15): Swarm Queen (4-6), Ermac's all variations (4-6), Vicious (4-6), Heavy Weapons (4-6), Wrestler (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6), Royal Storm (4-6), Shaolin (4-6), Piercing (3-7), Imposter (3-7), Demolition (3-7), Grandmaster (4-6).

Dualist does not have no damn 50 bad matchups

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Dualist does not have no damn 50 bad matchups

He has bro, I did the Dualist's MU chart with Kickbykick.

 

[Kickbykick]

I don't know how many there are but I agreed on most

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

He has bro, I did the Dualist's MU chart with Kickbykick.

Ehh, I'll be updating my chart soon. So I'll tag you both @Kickbykick

 

[STRYKIE]

Dualist: A LOT of bad matchups (over 50).

Flame Fist (18): Swarm Queen (4-6), Ermac's all variations (4-6), Vicious (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6), Shaolin (4-6), Dragon's Fire (4-6), Piercing (3-7), Ethereal (4-6), Warlock (4-6), Displacer (4-6), Hellfire (4-6), Imposter (3-7), Demolition (3-7), Dragon Nagnata (4-6).

Dragon's Fire (15): Swarm Queen (4-6), Ermac's all variations (4-6), Vicious (4-6), Heavy Weapons (4-6), Wrestler (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6), Royal Storm (4-6), Shaolin (4-6), Piercing (3-7), Imposter (3-7), Demolition (3-7), Grandmaster (4-6).

Warlock and Hellfire do not beat Flame Fist IMO.

 

[Kickbykick]

Ehh, I'll be updating my chart soon. So I'll tag you both @Kickbykick

I can't wait to discuss them breh