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General/Other - Dualist Liu Kang: Dualist General Discussion

I play all variations, but Dualist is definitely my favorite. Unfortunately I have to play as Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist, because current Dualist has no chances at the tournaments. He needs buffs ASAP.

Dualist is probably one of the most unique variations of any character among the entire roster. While you see how others save lots of their stuff, in Dualist Liu Kang's main specials of fire he replaces them entirely with Light Force and Dark Force, ying and yang, he becomes something like Revan from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, who was on both sides of the Force and realized that he can use both for his advantage in the name of good (he choose to be a Jedi in the end instead of Sith). The DD1 in Dualist looks stylish and interesting way of keeping pressure if you make it faster (like EX Shaolin Flame or even better), his red orbs could have been a deadly weapon if EX version (red orbs sucks, they are ony usefull after a hard knockdown and the ex redb all is useless) did same block stun as EX light ball and Yin buff did not disappeared on hit while in lvl1 and lvl2, plus he NEEDS EX Yin buff that gives him instant lvl3. And healing, oh dear healing, it needs to become useful.
GreatKungLao said:

I play all variations, but Dualist is definitely my favorite. Unfortunately I have to play as Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist, because current Dualist has no chances at the tournaments. He needs buffs ASAP.

Dualist is probably one of the most unique variations of any character among the entire roster. While you see how others save lots of their stuff, in Dualist Liu Kang's main specials of fire he replaces them entirely with Light Force and Dark Force, ying and yang, he becomes something like Revan from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, who was on both sides of the Force and realized that he can use both for his advantage in the name of good (he choose to be a Jedi in the end instead of Sith). The DD1 in Dualist looks stylish and interesting way of keeping pressure if you make it faster (like EX Shaolin Flame or even better), his red orbs could have been a deadly weapon if EX version (red orbs sucks, they are ony usefull after a hard knockdown and the ex redb all is useless) did same block stun as EX light ball and Yin buff did not disappeared on hit while in lvl1 and lvl2, plus he NEEDS EX Yin buff that gives him instant lvl3. And healing, oh dear healing, it needs to become useful.

i edited your post so most understand and added some buffs :)
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
To all dualist players. Please leave or drop your names so I can start a group pm discussing buffs we need!
My main character is Liu Kang, and my favorite variation is Dualist... but a lot of times I need to use Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist because Dualist has a lot of issues :(

First issue: His red orbs are exploding in the corner of some scenarios. How will I do setups in the corner of some scenarios?
Fix: just fix the hitboxes. lol

Second issue: EX bf1 (solar blast) is +15 on block but it has a lot of pushback difficulting Liu Kang to continue his pressure.
Buff: decrease the pushback of it.

Third issue: His healing is USELESS!!! Because it is very slow at start-up frames, recovery frames, and also in the healing (held it heals 0.03% and in the end of animation it heals 0.50%).
Buffs: Healing might benefit from starting up as soon as Liu Kang gets light on his hands. 1.00% while it's held would be great in this fast-paced game. The burst heal that occurs when Yin is released should be buffed tremendously. It should recover 3.00% health, so Liu Kang would have a good reason to finish the animation, instead of canceling it with a dash.

Fourth issue: Yin's start-up frames, and recovery frames are slow, and the buff of it disappears on hit. It's difficult to get the charge lvl 1, really difficult to get the charge lvl 2, and really REALLY difficult to get the charge lvl 3 in a fight, and when you get the charges, you take one simple hit and then the charges disappears -_-
Buffs: Yin's buff does not disappear on hit while it's in lvl 1 and lvl 2. Or decrease the start-up frames and recovery frames of Yin for Liu Kang activate it more quickly.

Fifth issue: His red orbs (especially his air red orb) are kinda useless in midscreen. At least his low orb hits low, but it still is useless in midscreen. They're slow.
Buffs: -5 recovery for low orb, -5 recovery for mid orb (only -5 for mid orb because mid orb has a EX version), and -15 recovery for air orb (c'mon, air orb is garbage, -15 recovery might help in something. lol)
 
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Even though DUALIST is lacking, I don't think he needs too much buffs.

Buffs:
- Make me heal faster. I don't know how that can be fixed.
- Yin charge is useless cause it goes out on first hit. You can get lvl 1 in a combo but why do that when I can get a better setup and damage without charging up. This game has 50/50's (Cassie), insane jump-ins(lasher takeda), annoying pokes(Devorah). Why won't I get hit.
-Return my old f213:DOGE.

Fix:
Please fix my orbs exploding in the corner. Pleaseeeeeeeeeee.In the corner of most stages you can't even place too much orbs it keeps on going out of stage
 

GreatKungLao

LiuTana
To be quite honest, since Kickbykick mentioned 50/50s, I think that since Liu Kang doesn't have cheapest 50/50s like Cassie, Sonya, Erron Black, etc., him having his Yin charge not disappear on hit would be more than fair, even if EX Yin buff would ever happen. Yin buff should remain just like Shaolin Flame.
 

GreatKungLao

LiuTana
Ok, so I decided to make a video that compares a damage of same combo with normal state and being in Yin buff on lvl 1, 2 and 3.


Normal combo: 31%
Yin Charge Level 1: 34% (3 additional %)
Yin Charge Level 2: 41% (10 additional %)
Yin Charge Level 3: 47% (13 additional %)

So it is clear that the buff makes Liu Kang's hits much stronger, but is it fair that it disappears after getting 1 hit? NO.

Kotal Kahn can do some massive buffs in Blood God and it will not disappear on hit, even though he has 50/50 combo starters. Not to mention that he can summon totems during his juggle combos and even continue it after summon! Should I even mention the damage of his projectile with totem activated?

Kano's buff also don't disappear on hit and his buff is also massive.

So why Liu Kang should have his Yin charge disappear on hit? It will be gone once you change the stance, it is very risky to try charge lvl3 in real fight, he don't have cheap 50/50 combo starters, his best overhead B2 is only knockdown.

I say that Yin charge should not disappear after getting 1 hit and should remain just like Shaolin Flame. Also Yin charge should have EX version that gives him lvl3 instantly. Red orbs will have much more dangerous game then as well.
 

XBlades

To Achieve, You must Believe
as long as liu kang doesnt lose his buff on block like before its alright with me. his orb setups are the best option. i feel like if people utilize his charge setups and mix it in with ex orbs which explode on stop. hed be an annoying opponent. i believe he is a potential character, we just need to struggle through his losses and adapt.
 
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GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
as long as liu kang doesnt lose his buff on block like before its alright with me. his orb setups are the best option. i feel like if people utilize his charge setups and mix it in with ex orbs which explode on stop. i believe he is a potential character, we just need to struggle through his losses and adapt.
where the fuck have you been i miss you
 
Third issue: His healing is USELESS!!! Because it is very slow at start-up frames, recovery frames, and also in the healing (held it heals 0.03% and in the end of animation it heals 0.50%).
Fourth issue: Yin's start-up frames, and recovery frames are slow, and the buff of it disappears on hit. It's difficult to get the charge lvl 1, really difficult to get the charge lvl 2, and really REALLY difficult to get the charge lvl 3 in a fight, and when you get the charges, you take one simple hit and then the charges disappears -_-
- Make me heal faster. I don't know how that can be fixed.
- Yin charge is useless cause it goes out on first hit. You can get lvl 1 in a combo but why do that when I can get a better setup and damage without charging up. This game has 50/50's (Cassie), insane jump-ins(lasher takeda), annoying pokes(Devorah). Why won't I get hit.
To be quite honest, since Kickbykick mentioned 50/50s, I think that since Liu Kang doesn't have cheapest 50/50s like Cassie, Sonya, Erron Black, etc., him having his Yin charge not disappear on hit would be more than fair, even if EX Yin buff would ever happen. Yin buff should remain just like Shaolin Flame.
Sorry, but I gotta say this because it's driving me crazy:
The "healing" is named Yin in the move list;
The "damage charge" is named Yang in the move list.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
The lack of the ability to get a dark orb out ON HIT whilst keeping advantage is depressing . Not even d4~orb cancel is plus on hit.

I only know of one setup that allows him to leave an orb out that is actually consistently in range to make contact with the opponent when it detonates whilst getting worthwhile damage, and it requires the opponent to get hit right away after an orb is placed, and it does not work in the usual corners.

Regular combos ending in dark orbs leave the orb in an inconsistent place because some characters move their hurtbox forward when they block, making the orb whiff on some (regardless of high/low blocking) but not others.

He needs one fix, which would be to remove the corner issue causing the orbs to explode on contact, and one buff, which would be to allow him to cancel the animation of placing the dark orb quicker, thus allowing him to place the orbs closer to himself.

@GGA pimpimjim is the corner issue something you guys are aware/have looked into? It's plagued Dualist since day 1 and has been documented from early on.
 
The lack of the ability to get a dark orb out ON HIT whilst keeping advantage is depressing . Not even d4~orb cancel is plus on hit.
This one agrees, being thinking of a buff to make it better but if they reduce the startup of the orb it would be BROKEN.:(
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
The lack of the ability to get a dark orb out ON HIT whilst keeping advantage is depressing . Not even d4~orb cancel is plus on hit.

I only know of one setup that allows him to leave an orb out that is actually consistently in range to make contact with the opponent when it detonates whilst getting worthwhile damage, and it requires the opponent to get hit right away after an orb is placed, and it does not work in the usual corners.

Regular combos ending in dark orbs leave the orb in an inconsistent place because some characters move their hurtbox forward when they block, making the orb whiff on some (regardless of high/low blocking) but not others.

He needs one fix, which would be to remove the corner issue causing the orbs to explode on contact, and one buff, which would be to allow him to cancel the animation of placing the dark orb quicker, thus allowing him to place the orbs closer to himself.

@GGA pimpimjim is the corner issue something you guys are aware/have looked into? It's plagued Dualist since day 1 and has been documented from early on.
I don't think ppj is testing any more and yes they are aware. I spoke to 16 bit about it directly and even pointed him to my thread about his bugs.

Why it's not fixed is beyond me. Maybe it can't be.

B334 is my go to hkd orb setup.

B334 low orb 22
B334 low orb block
B334 low orb b12
B334 low orb throw
...etc

It does less damage than a full combo but the oki is better than sending them full screen.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I don't think ppj is testing any more and yes they are aware. I spoke to 16 bit about it directly and even pointed him to my thread about his bugs.

Why it's not fixed is beyond me. Maybe it can't be.

B334 is my go to hkd orb setup.

B334 low orb 22
B334 low orb block
B334 low orb b12
B334 low orb throw
...etc

It does less damage than a full combo but the oki is better than sending them full screen.
Mid screen you mean? I prefer just hitting them into the corner tbh. This character isn't well enough designed imo to be relying on these ghetto setups.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Mid screen you mean? I prefer just hitting them into the corner tbh. This character isn't well enough designed imo to be relying on these ghetto setups.
When I play dualist, it's only because I want to win using ghetto setups. Lol

Let's be serious. I typically just use DF when I want to win. Dualist for fun
 

DeftMonk

Noob
I don't think ppj is testing any more and yes they are aware. I spoke to 16 bit about it directly and even pointed him to my thread about his bugs.

Why it's not fixed is beyond me. Maybe it can't be.

B334 is my go to hkd orb setup.

B334 low orb 22
B334 low orb block
B334 low orb b12
B334 low orb throw
...etc

It does less damage than a full combo but the oki is better than sending them full screen.
i saw this post and something dawned on me to try out. I found your b334 setup is pretty sick with charge level 3. if by some grace of god miracle/opponent did some kind of wake up u directly follow with 3high orb, orb stop over and over kicking him into instant orbs you can get up to like 70% damage on a wake up.
 
i saw this post and something dawned on me to try out. I found your b334 setup is pretty sick with charge level 3. if by some grace of god miracle/opponent did some kind of wake up u directly follow with 3high orb, orb stop over and over kicking him into instant orbs you can get up to like 70% damage on a wake up.
Bruh there's no way am letting u juggle me
 
maybe a good buff for dualist could be making his ex bicycle kick plus 2 on block and be able to combo on hit? at the moment i see no reason in using it and it might make combos for him a lil easier, more damaging, and a reason to use the armor on wake up. might be stupid tho. it could be like dragons fire when you meterburn during a regular bicycle kick but that would be his standard meteburn bicycle kick.
 

XBlades

To Achieve, You must Believe
maybe the way we are going about dualist is wrong? maybe instead of focusing our energy getting orb setups and juggling, we should try to get to lyang charge to vl 2 or 3 faster. in relation of set ups or switching stances and keeping pressure to build meter.we know that f213 into ex solar is +15.. we know that f213 into ss is +6 about there..what im saying is why not use orbs to keep opponents at bay while we charge? instead of looking for a way to utilize orb setups, how about chipping away and building meter. especially in yang stance. idk once i get some sort of situational setups for gameplay ill update.
 
maybe the way we are going about dualist is wrong? maybe instead of focusing our energy getting orb setups and juggling, we should try to get to lyang charge to vl 2 or 3 faster. in relation of set ups or switching stances and keeping pressure to build meter.we know that f213 into ex solar is +15.. we know that f213 into ss is +6 about there..what im saying is why not use orbs to keep opponents at bay while we charge? instead of looking for a way to utilize orb setups, how about chipping away and building meter. especially in yang stance. idk once i get some sort of situational setups for gameplay ill update.
Working on this idea, its hard to get charged up. I couldn't get to level 2 in a combo. If i put an orb on the screen and try charging up against someone who knows the timer on the orb, I might get hit by a move. Most chars can also use projectiles. I have setups to get level 2 and level 3 but after the charge up, what do we do? We cant take out orbs on block against an opponent with fast reaction. We don't have good mix-ups except b2 in level 1 is bout 7.70, level 2 bout 9.10 and level 3 bout 10.10. If we grab we get bout 13% or 16%. Uppercut does about 15, 18, 21 in the 3 levels respectively. What options do we have left?