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Tech Lex Luthor Standing Reset / Auto Stand / Anti Wakeup

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
So the idea is, probe will auto stand the opponent after a knockdown with correct timing.

I think this is really fucking dirty. But I'm between addresses and just setting up where I can, and I can't play this game on the 200 mile TV at this house.

I attended Shadowloo Showdown, big major here in Melbourne, Australia over the weekend and managed to do this in casuals accidentally. When I returned to Sydney myself and Gilbagz labbed this out to understand the cause.


The setup is best attempted when armoured. Set probe and jump in with 1 or 2. The jump in attack connects before the probe. Corp Charge after the jump in attack, still before the probe connects. Now the probe connects. The opponent auto stands for a traditional reset. Not your MK style damage exploits.

From here you can do basically what you like up close I guess. Continue pressure or mix up or throw or whatever.

Like I said I can not extensively test this right now as I only have a massive TV with terrible lag. To me this seems like a bit of a breakthrough but by all means I hope the Lex community can debunk or run with this and explore it a little more. Who knows what is possible with a prior mine, or other potential possibilities.

I think the opponent can not really anti air you while armoured.

You also do not need to jump in attack at all. You can empty jump into throw or pressure or Corp Charge for the setup if they are not blocking.

The timing is quite easy to get down. There's really no execution barrier for this setup at all. 2 minutes should see you autostanding your opponent.

Strangely enough my memory told me I had initially accidentally performed the setup off of f2 but in my short time labbing with Gilbagz The Joker of Aus, I couldn't replicate this. Maybe it was just a Corp Charge after all.

Some have read my guide (which needs updating I know) and I'm a huge proponent of the fear if Corp Charge/dash in throw. Personally I had a lot of success with this because its hard to know, from Sweep(ish) distance, if Lex is dashing for throw or Corp Charging. I often make my opponent respect this. If they move they'll get a CC. If they stay put they have to tech the dash throw.

Perhaps now, with probe out, opponent is blocking, you can dash throw, or maybe you can dash CC. If you dash in and the opponent expects a throw and you CC the throw tech attempt, I presume you'll get your standing reset. If the opponent stays put blocking, we know CC must hit before probe for the reset. Your Corp Charge will hit their block, followed by the probe, so Lex should be safe, especially if armored, the worst that should happen is you might lose your armour. Lex can still punish the punish, which is already a staple of our gameplay anyway.

I believe this would also be possible if probe is on screen and you crossover the opponent with jump in attack, CC.

EDIT -Some concerns were raised and I will address them.

Concern 1
If you attempt dash-in throw and the probe connects during your throw animation, we know both players fall to the ground. Lex has advantage here, as I posted before, if you tech roll your fall, you can d1>grav beam MB into full combo punish. No worries.

Concern 2
Because the opponent is immediately standing neutral, if they see the auto stand because they are prepared for this strategy, they could possibly hit Lex with a 6frame attack - But punish-punish is already a huge part of Lex game. Standing immediately next to the opponent with your armour on is right where Lex wants to be. If they happen to connect a 6frame attack [which I might say is going to be very difficult considering they have to react to the fact you have auto stood them and they have no wakeup and you didn't use the throw strategy...] I'm certain Lex can punish the punish with at LEAST a Corp Charge and PROBABLY a full combo, like any other time you'd be hit out of armor to punish that armor removal.

Concern 3
"When will the opponent let you free jump on them when Lex is armoured with a probe out? They will block it or anti air every time!"
Lex does not need to JIP>CC. As the 3rd example in the video shows, Lex can empty jump, land, CC into standing reset. The enemy can not anti air you if you are armoured. They will likely not even attempt anti air because you are armoured and have probe on screen. So what if they just sit there blocking? They must be prepared to tech the dash throw. As said before, if probe then hits during throw, fall to ground, tech roll, d1>grav beam MB combo.

Have at it!

Tags:

rev0lver
Galactic Geek
GGA pimpimjim
AK Pig Of The Hut
BDMao88
NKZero
Thead
whedgehead
Wemfs
STORMS


PPS, 7th place Lex at an international major. Too bad there were no US players for me to beat on.... Oh wait, there was, and I did ;)
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
Awesome find not terribly practical but completely awesome nonetheless I'm definitely going to the lab with this and checking it out. What's was the computer set at when you made the the vid? I need to duplicate this
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
Awesome find not terribly practical but completely awesome nonetheless I'm definitely going to the lab with this and checking it out. What's was the computer set at when you made the the vid? I need to duplicate this
neutral

the thing is, you can probably also do it from a crossover - crossover jump in attack or crossover empty jump. that will make things interesting.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
oh shit i must've missed this in in the convo haha. this looks sick. i don't know when they're not going to be blocking if your trait's up tbh but it's still cool to have. does it work with ground corp charge though? like, let's say i'm armored and have a probe up and 50/50 into corp charge. would it stand reset then?
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
neutral

the thing is, you can probably also do it from a crossover - crossover jump in attack or crossover empty jump. that will make things interesting.
That makes, sense crossover into this set up.

I feel like since the probe didn't technically combo you should be able to do combo off of the stun with the probe it just might be tough timing
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Great stuff x5STAR

Seems potentially really dirty, so I wonder what you're able to get out on the screen while they're in stun

Armor, mine, probe, orb, charge unblockable shot?


Seems really cool
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Might be a terrible question but what hapoens when u do MB probe instead Of a normal one
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
oh shit i must've missed this in in the convo haha. this looks sick. i don't know when they're not going to be blocking if your trait's up tbh but it's still cool to have. does it work with ground corp charge though? like, let's say i'm armored and have a probe up and 50/50 into corp charge. would it stand reset then?
well the empty jump version (third in vid) actually lands. its a ground corp charge.


Might be a terrible question but what hapoens when u do MB probe instead Of a normal one

i cant test it this moment. someone try?

MB version comes out quicker so maybe impossible
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
I have a strategy to make this (more) viable. other than a crossover reset attempt...

Some have read my guide (which needs updating i know i know) and im a huge proponent of the fear if corp charge/dash in throw. personally i had a lot of success with this because its hard to know, from Sweep(ish) distance, if lex is dashing for throw or corp charging. i often make my opponent respect this. if they move theyll get a CC. if they stay put they have to tech the dash throw.

perhaps now, with probe out, opponent is blocking, you can dash throw, or maybe you can dash CC. if you dash in and the opponent expects a throw and you CC the throw tech attempt, i presume youll get your standing reset. if the opponent stays put blocking, we know CC must hit before probe for the reset. your cc will hit their block, followed by the probe, so lex should be safe, especially if armored, the worst that should happeb is you might lose your armour. lex can probablt still punish the punish...

i gotta keep emphasising i cant test the theory because of my situation. but in theory i think this seems sound.
 

Thead

Noob
Good shit x5STAR. Can't watch the video properly atm cause I'm not getting a good Internet on the phone.

I sometimes use Probe to make CC safe, do you know if this works on a naked grounded CC? If so will make certain opponents wary about trying to trade with Probe to stuff Trait/Other Special setups at certain distances.
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
Good shit x5STAR. Can't watch the video properly atm cause I'm not getting a good Internet on the phone.

I sometimes use Probe to make CC safe, do you know if this works on a naked grounded CC? If so will make certain opponents wary about trying to trade with Probe to stuff Trait/Other Special setups at certain distances.
yes it works on naked CC. in the video the third example is a naked jump in, land, CC reset.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Oh this looks dirty as hell. I need to go into the lab and test it tomorrow, but I think I have a few ideas for this.

Great find!
 

Galactic Geek

Losing is learning; winning is succeeding.
x5STAR,
You can't use the Lex probe before your dash-in throw because if you're in the process of throwing your opponent the shot will knock you both down & do even less damage than the throw itself (5% instead of 11%). This has been my experience in the lab & is not really worth doing as a result.
 

mikosu

+ on block 50/50s
The reason it happens is because a grounded corp charge KND is not a comboable KND. The opponent is able to block during the animation. It's the very reason grounded corp charge won't combo into mines. Most sweep KND animations are like this which is why Sinestro's d3 trait shot is basically this same tech that was posted a bit ago. But unfortunately for Lex with these setups you're showing the probe shot allows the opponent to stand back up into the recovery of corp charge which leaves Lex at disadvantage and possibly punishable. So unfortunately it's a gimmick unless he has armor.

i cant test it this moment. someone try?

MB version comes out quicker so maybe impossible
MB probes take longer to set up but fire sooner. Given Lex's floaty jump if the jump normal lands the MB probes will combo with corp charge into a KND. If the normal doesn't hit it's a blockstring with some gaps.
 

Thead

Noob
x5STAR

Ok some interesting (odd) properties of this attack.

Unlike a Probe by itself, the hitstun from CC into Probe will not allow any combo-able follow ups, everything can be blocked. This means the best you get after this hits is a high/low/throw mixup from the Probes hitstun. Mines can be blocked Low.

The Probe itself is actually blockable after Ji2~CC connects.

Ji2~CC (Probe reset hits) does 15% by itself and is a two hit combo, with the probe resetting for another 3% (total 18%).
Probe hit, Ji2~CC does 16% and is a three hit combo.
Ji2(Probe Hit)~CC does 17% and is a three hit combo.

The oddest thing however, is setting the computer to Auto Block;
Ji2~CC (Probe reset blocked) - 16% and a two hit combo.

I'm guessing the computer adds the chip damage from Probe onto the combo damage, without classifying it as a hit.

As for MB Probe, the first hit launches unlike regular Probe, so there is no standing reset. If you time it well you can get;
1st hit of MB Probe, Ji2~CC, 2nd hit of MB Probe and then follow up with 11 or whatever, but there's a shit load of gravity and I'm finding it hard to time.
 

Grave__Intent

Death's Trusty Side-Kick!
I could see this as a set-up for a dash in throw afterwards, or maybe a mine drop during the stun part of the prob hit, possibly even a orbital strike or just another probe toss for the trap.
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
yes guys i am aware the opponent can block immediately. i explained that in the op, this is a "Traditional" reset not a cyrax style damage exploit. precisely why i armored up in the video and why you will armor up before you attempt this is well. i understand you do not get massive combo potential from this but a big part of Lex game is the counter-punish through armour. A BIG part!

KurtisOwnsYou
imblackjames

thoughts?

nice work Thead
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
Galactic Geek

im also already aware of probe knockdown during throw, guess you arent aware of the tech roll, d1 grav beam MB combo punish i posted months ago (with the help of... Benzo (??) if probe lands during throw you are knockdown, tech the knockdown into d1 grav beam combo.
 

mikosu

+ on block 50/50s
x5STAR Can't argue with that logic. But he may be at too much disadvantage to actually get anything against characters with quick multi-hit attacks. So the tech could be matchup-specific. I'll check to be sure.
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
guys with your grievances we are painting a picture of some solid tech with a great few variation paths, i think... ill summarize in op soon some more ideas based on your concerns.

good work everyone
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
yes guys i am aware the opponent can block immediately. i explained that in the op, this is a "Traditional" reset not a cyrax style damage exploit. precisely why i armored up in the video and why you will armor up before you attempt this is well. i understand you do not get massive combo potential from this but a big part of Lex game is the counter-punish through armour. A BIG part!

KurtisOwnsYou
imblackjames

thoughts?

nice work Thead
like i said before its an awesome find its just situational, could be good mind games
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
updated op with lots of extra info to address some good points which were raised. thanks again.